Poll: Abortion : Should men get a say?

[Flying-Emu]

If that woman accepts my seed, she better be prepared to bear my child should her contraception fail. I don't care if it's her body, that's my child in her uterus, and if she isn't willing to accept her responsibilities, she can deal with the 9-month punishment and I'll take care of the kid afterwards.

No unborn child of mine is going to be killed before he has a chance at life.

I'm inclined to make a joke here, but you actually do point out that the opposite scenario does occur.

That said, you're kind of an asshole even by my standards. "I don't care if it's her body"? "Consequences"? Wow. So because you managed to get your dick wet with girl A, you have the right to sire another living being, even if she wants no part in birthing it?

This sort of thing is why I was thinking of saying "men shouldn't have the final say"--but, really, it's only if the answer's "yes" that it applies, if we go with the "absolve the man of responsibilities" clause everyone seems to like.

I think you misinterpreted what I meant by "I don't care if it's her body." I meant, if she has willing sex, fully knowledgeable of the risks inherent, I should be able to say "No, you shouldn't get an abortion. That's my kid too." Because it is. That is my outlook on life; begins at conception.

Now, drunken encounters are a bit different. Unsure of where to go on that one, but do you see my point?
__

I read an interesting article about some asian country making it possible to put an unborn fetus into the father's stomach area and hooking it up with an artificial umbelical cord.

Now if you're willing to carry the child, by all means, go ahead and say no abortions, but if you aren't willing to destroy your OWN body, then the woman has every right to take a kitchen knife to her stomach to get rid of your offspring.

YOU SIR are everything that is wrong with society and everything that is wrong with america. I'm assuming your american, but if not that is an amazing talent you have there, being the level of dick that comes from america without actually being there. I hope you choke. On someone's dick.

This of course being someone who's aunt was RAPED and the guy who did it said he didn't want her getting an abortion because it was "unchristian" and saying he wanted the child. Of course the judge hit him with the book and she got the abortion anyway.

Excuse me, Sir.. Before insulting me, how about you learn a little about me?

I am not some casual-sexing, freewheeling sex fiend. I am very reserved about who I sleep with, I do not have sex with every girl I have a chance to. Please, don't pretend you know me. I would not sleep with a girl until I knew what was going to come of it, and what might occur, and she was fully aware of what was going to happen, and what might occur as a result of that.

If you get raped; fine. That's a different case. Have an abortion. You did not choose to have sex with that man, it was not your decision. Forcing you to carry the child in that case would be a punishment for another's actions, which is wrong. However, if you willingly had sex, you also willingly accepted the risks and possible consequences. Willing sex and rape are two different things, and should be handled thusly.

In response to the Asian baby transfer.

First off, link or it doesn't exist. Second, I would not do that, as the male body is not constructed to carry a child. A woman's body is not irrevocably destroyed by carrying a child. At the very least, if she wants to get rid of the child, she should be required to find a surrogate mother.

Since, you know. If we can transfer babies from a woman to a man, it's only logical that we'd be able to transfer from women to women.

I apologize for the horror your aunt was put through, and that is proper case for abortion.

 

[DrunkWithPower]

I say case by case, what if dad is gone or dead?

 

[Halfbreed13]

Okay, I already have the answer.
It is the woman's choice, HOWEVER, if she refuses the abortion option especially after the guy offers to pay for it, then the father does not have to pay child support.
/discussion

 

[Labyrinth]

If that woman accepts my seed, she better be prepared to bear my child should her contraception fail. I don't care if it's her body, that's my child in her uterus, and if she isn't willing to accept her responsibilities, she can deal with the 9-month punishment and I'll take care of the kid afterwards.

No unborn child of mine is going to be killed before he has a chance at life.

It takes two to make a child. It's not just yours, and it sure as hell isn't your body to decide about. I think that in a committed relationship both people should have a say but unless both are willing, I think that alternatives should be considered. This means that you, Emu, have to discuss it rather than trying to control whoever you're with. It's a matter of respect.

 

[Nemorov]

the part of me that doesn't want a kid says yes, but the part of me who doesn't want to go to jail for domestic violence says no. As you said, it's inhumane to force some woman into an abortion clinic. I guess the only solution would be if the man wants an abortion and the woman refuses, she becomes completely responsible as the legal provider for the child.

My gut feeling was to agree with this, and then I pondered all of the ways this could be abused, much like child support is anyways. Siigh. Humanity.

 

[Flying-Emu]

If that woman accepts my seed, she better be prepared to bear my child should her contraception fail. I don't care if it's her body, that's my child in her uterus, and if she isn't willing to accept her responsibilities, she can deal with the 9-month punishment and I'll take care of the kid afterwards.

No unborn child of mine is going to be killed before he has a chance at life.

It takes two to make a child. It's not just yours, and it sure as hell isn't your body to decide about. I think that in a committed relationship both people should have a say but unless both are willing, I think that alternatives should be considered. This means that you, Emu, have to discuss it rather than trying to control whoever you're with. It's a matter of respect.

I think I was misunderstood here. What I was driving at, in a roundabout fashion, was that I wouldn't sleep with a woman who didn't understand the possible risks and consequences, and accept them as such. Perhaps it would be different for other guys, but I know how to control my sexual urges; just because there's a woman splayed before me doesn't mean I'm going to go to town.

I see your point. But the argument really comes down to this "Yes, it's the woman's body and she gets the final say. But there is a child inside that woman who is both hers and the man's."

Therefore, if you think about it mathematically, the say should be 2/3 woman and 1/3 man. As much as I hate to admit it, it's true. Mathematically (Wait, why am I using math in a philosophical argument?) the woman has the stronger hand.

I guess my initial post was construed as "This is what it should be like for all men." which wasn't what I was driving for. I was simply iterating that I would not allow a child to be conceived with a woman who would abort.

Apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[Madshaw]

its half the mans child aswell, so long as he is willing to look after the child and care for it then he should be allowed to prevent it from being terminated, and on the other side I think he should be allowed to say he wants a child terminated, but if the woman wants to keep it then his opinion will not overide hers. basically if either of them wants the kid alive, then it shouldn't be killed.

 

[Scrythe]

I also got thinking, anybody ever heard of the crazy women, the kind who lie about taking contraception in order to trap a man with a child for 18 years? does this kind of pregnacy deserve to be looked at differantly or is it still the same situation? To me i would see that as some sort of crime, guys definaly should have some way out there.

Which is why stories like this [http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html] continue to give me some amount of hope for the future, however small.

 

[notsosavagemessiah]

as somebody who's had their child aborted, i can tell you right now that it definitely needs to be a case by case basis. Dialog between the two parties is CRITICAL. It takes two to tango, it should take two to end it as well. If not, this just ends with everybody getting hurt. i know first hand.

 

[GloatingSwine]

its half the mans child aswell

Not really. The biological investment of the man in any given child is extremely small. Even at the gamete level at the instant of conception, the egg represents a massively greater investment than the sperm.

It's not "half" the man's, all you contribute as a man is an infinitessimal scrap of DNA.

And again, I'm not seeing any volunteers to undergo the biological consequences of pregnancy from any of the guys who are demanding a woman submit her body to their spawn.

 

[manicfoot]

Well, if something was going to tear its way through your genitals, and make you puke and shit yourself in front of complete strangers you'd like the choice to stop it, right? I'm not saying the man has no say in it whatsoever, but ultimately the ratio is like 49% to 51% in favour of the woman. Just my opinion though obviously.

 

[Agema]

Whatever contribution a man has had in creating a foetus, ultimately he can have no right whatsoever to contradict what a woman decides to do with her own body. It is a fundamental right of a sentient human in a free society to decide their own course in life: pregnancy cannot give a man a right to enslave a woman to his will.

 

[A Raging Emo]

I think the man should have a say.

My girlfriend got pregnant and she had an abortion about 5 or so months ago (We are only 14 so her Dad and Step-Mum would go nuts if they found out).

She didn't tell me she had an abortion untill two months after she had had it.

Now, I would have advised her to do the same, but she could have told me when she was pregnant; I found it very upsetting when she didn't tell me (Should I have used a Semi-colon there? Or should it just be a Comma or Full Stop?).

You know, it's funny. I have not let many people know in real life, but I have no fear of telling the story on an Internet Forum.

 

[pdgeorge]

I think the guy definatly needs to have a say in it. A similar thing happened to a friend of mine, pregnancy scare.
He is anti-abortion (atleast for the most part) and would have preffered to keep it. His girlfriend however, is a whore. (For example, she has told other people but not him, that she is planning on dumping him when they finish high school and she goes to uni. She plans that she can get better.)
Anyway, his girlfriend was just flat out "nope, abortion, I don't care what you say"
That would have really hurt the guy if it did happen, however I don't think it's at THAT moment that a decision should be made. I told both of them they are completely stupid douches.

If you are having sex and it's like... 99% chance pregnancy avoided, then you have to understand there is still a 1% chance pregnancy may still occur.
If you don't want kids, or you arn't prepared to handle any form of concequence you may recieve from having sex (STD, pains etc. whatever) then DON'T HAVE SEX!
Don't say "but we had a condom!" and act like your a victim, GROW SOME BALLS! (male and female) and either accept the concequences of your actions, or don't risk it in the first place.

If someone is driving down the street, there is a 99.9999% chance they won't hit anyone (BS number, but whatever). However, if they do something stupid (stop looking, speed a little, whatever) then what goes from being an "i'll never have an accident!" has suddenly turned around and you just killed a family of 5.
You can't weezle your way out of that unless you run away asap and noone saw you (and they can't connect it to you at all etc. etc.) however then you will be under the risk of being caught for what you did. It doesn't matter it was an accident, you did something retardedly stupid and you have to accept theres concequences for it.

And again, I'm not seeing any volunteers to undergo the biological consequences of pregnancy from any of the guys who are demanding a woman submit her body to their spawn.

Swine, as a female (I'm geussing?) you have every right to say "no I don't want to have sex" don't you? (same as guys do) the concequences of sex are sometimes HUGE. Both parties have to understand them and be willing to say BEFORE THEY TAKE THE RISK "Yes I'm prepared for this should the worst come around"
(or they should ATLEAST just look at better methods of contraception. While none are 100% if things are done correctly, It should work out to be alot lower, if not negligable)

 

[Epitome]

I also got thinking, anybody ever heard of the crazy women, the kind who lie about taking contraception in order to trap a man with a child for 18 years? does this kind of pregnacy deserve to be looked at differantly or is it still the same situation? To me i would see that as some sort of crime, guys definaly should have some way out there.

Which is why stories like this [http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html] continue to give me some amount of hope for the future, however small.

looool I would love to have been a fly on teh wall, it isnt much to do with the topic but its still funny as #### but a vasectomy is an extreme step, i know right now i couldnt have kids, but maybe someday later who knows. You couldnt say to a woman sure just have a historectomy either thats a very extreme option, besdes it just wouldnt be the same after..

 

[Epitome]

If you are having sex and it's like... 99% chance pregnancy avoided, then you have to understand there is still a 1% chance pregnancy may still occur.
If you don't want kids, or you arn't prepared to handle any form of concequence you may recieve from having sex (STD, pains etc. whatever) then DON'T HAVE SEX!
Don't say "but we had a condom!" and act like your a victim, GROW SOME BALLS! (male and female) and either accept the concequences of your actions, or don't risk it in the first place.

If someone is driving down the street, there is a 99.9999% chance they won't hit anyone (BS number, but whatever). However, if they do something stupid (stop looking, speed a little, whatever) then what goes from being an "i'll never have an accident!" has suddenly turned around and you just killed a family of 5.
You can't weezle your way out of that unless you run away asap and noone saw you (and they can't connect it to you at all etc. etc.) however then you will be under the risk of being caught for what you did. It doesn't matter it was an accident, you did something retardedly stupid and you have to accept theres concequences for it.

And again, I'm not seeing any volunteers to undergo the biological consequences of pregnancy from any of the guys who are demanding a woman submit her body to their spawn.

Swine, as a female (I'm geussing?) you have every right to say "no I don't want to have sex" don't you? (same as guys do) the concequences of sex are sometimes HUGE. Both parties have to understand them and be willing to say BEFORE THEY TAKE THE RISK "Yes I'm prepared for this should the worst come around"

(or they should ATLEAST just look at better methods of contraception. While none are 100% if things are done correctly, It should work out to be alot lower, if not negligable)

1) Dont have sex?.. okay thats so not an option. Thin kabout your teenage years and what an important part sexual development was. you cant hold off on that till late 20's early 30's at the soonest. Imagine how awful that would be? a nation of 20some virgins all pissing their pants about sex... sounds teh liek catholic churches days. Sex is for reproduction but that is no longer its primary purpose in todays society.Today sex is about recreation, almost all media have sex incorperated in one way or another its impossible to not have sex until your ready for children without being a social outcast?
2) your last part about contarception i s in direct conflict with your earlier example, say driving down the road teh negligable chance tat of teh 10000 pedestrians teh one suicidal ine jumps in front of your car? Negligable factors are ones that are just that negligable, but in the case of conception ie a child being born no risk can be considered negligable. Only when contraception is 100% safe will it be a negligable factor.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Swine, as a female (I'm geussing?) you have every right to say "no I don't want to have sex" don't you? (same as guys do) the concequences of sex are sometimes HUGE. Both parties have to understand them and be willing to say BEFORE THEY TAKE THE RISK "Yes I'm prepared for this should the worst come around"
(or they should ATLEAST just look at better methods of contraception. While none are 100% if things are done correctly, It should work out to be alot lower, if not negligable)

Wrong guess.

Also, sex is not just for procreation, nor should it be. It is also for fun, for pair bonding, for love, for any one of a hundred other reasons, in us and in other animals.

However, unlike a lot of other animals, human females don't give any external signs that they are ovulating, so we need other ways to control conception and gestation in order to avoid unwanted births, because even outside of the periphery cases, there are many many people who are simply not able to support a child, whether that's financially, emotionally, or physically, through the nine months of gestation and the 18 years of dependent childhood, and people should not be forced into doing so.

 

[vampirekid.13]

Okay so my friend(male) has been going out with another friend of mine (female) for over 18 months now, both are over the legal age of consent and they frequently have sex and are an exclusive couple. About a week ago my female friend was telling me she was 2 weeks late and was freaking out, anyway she told him and he freaked.

Anyway what ended up happening it was a scare and all is well(ish) now, but the problem arose. He is in college at the minute and is finacially commited to that for he next couple years at least and she is the same. She happens to be pro-life though and would not have an abortion if it was needed, he did not want anyone having his kid, but couldnt be happy knowing he was a father(which was why he was against the adoption choice). Fortunately the situation diffused itself but it did get me thinking, contraception was used in this case it just failed so neither parent had the intention of having kids, but should a man be forced to become a father because the woman does not want to give up the child?

Now i can see how you cant force a woman to an abortion clinic it would be barbaric, but the only alternative i could think of would be that if the man did not want it the woman should have the choice to have the abortion or have all legal ties to father removed and the birth cert make no mention of him and maybe a gag order on revealing the fathers name to child. Anyway this thread is for me to get a feel on public opinion on the matter because if the situation happened to me i not sure how i would react, i know the men are supposed to be supportive but i really really wouldnt want to be a 20 year old father?

EDIT: I also got thinking, anybody ever heard of the crazy women, the kind who lie about taking contraception in order to trap a man with a child for 18 years? does this kind of pregnacy deserve to be looked at differantly or is it still the same situation? To me i would see that as some sort of crime, guys definaly should have some way out there.

i dont get why this is so hard to deal with in society.


its a very easy thing to figure out:

scenario 1: kid is made, no parents know for the first month, then they find out.

if the girl wants the baby she can have it, the guy can leave w/o any strings attached and doesnt have to pay for child support as long as he asked her to get an abortion and she said no. and it was before first trimester ended.

if the guy wants the baby and the girl doesnt, she should have it, give it to him, and leave, no strings attached, and she does not have to pay child support or visit the baby ever.

if they find out too late to abort the baby the guy/girl should pay child support if they choose to leave.

i dont see why we're forcing ppl to pay child support when they tell their others they want an abortion way before first trimester is over.

 

[Haydyn]

Hey, once the man willingly chooses to stick his willy in a girl, whatever he leaves behind isn't his anymore. But he should have some kind of input.

 

[pdgeorge]

1) Dont have sex?.. okay thats so not an option. Thin kabout your teenage years and what an important part sexual development was. you cant hold off on that till late 20's early 30's at the soonest. Imagine how awful that would be? a nation of 20some virgins all pissing their pants about sex... sounds teh liek catholic churches days. Sex is for reproduction but that is no longer its primary purpose in todays society.Today sex is about recreation, almost all media have sex incorperated in one way or another its impossible to not have sex until your ready for children without being a social outcast?
2) your last part about contarception i s in direct conflict with your earlier example, say driving down the road teh negligable chance tat of teh 10000 pedestrians teh one suicidal ine jumps in front of your car? Negligable factors are ones that are just that negligable, but in the case of conception ie a child being born no risk can be considered negligable. Only when contraception is 100% safe will it be a negligable factor.

1) I stated the whole "or they should ATLEAST just look at better methods of contraception. While none are 100% if things are done correctly, It should work out to be alot lower, if not negligable" at the END because I didn't want to keep justifying "don't have sex unless you have 100% contraception" each and every time. I understand alot of people want to just fool around and have sex etc. but what I'm saying is if your not prepared for the concequences, don't do it. Think about my teenage years? I'm 21, I first had sex when I was 19. The way your talking is as if sex is something everybody HAS to do no matter what. The more that 'helpful' people like you keep encouraging everyone "COME ON GUYS! ROOT! ROOT EACHOTHER! DO IT!" the more that people just keep having sex for the sake of it (and continue to forget to be careful more and more about contraception) People shouldn't just be having sex for the sake of it, the more people rely on meaningless sex the more relationships break down among heaps of other issues. (As so many people here have even said they don't have to care about sex massivly, just because you don't have sex regularly doesn't mean you are a social outcast.)
Plus SEX isn't the only sexual thing out there, what happened to the days when sex was like "oh we've been fooling around for about a year now... I think it's time we went that far"

2) .... ok THIS is the one that screwed me trying to understand what you even said...
'say driving down the road teh negligable chance tat of teh 10000 pedestrians teh one suicidal ine jumps in front of your car?'?!?
what the hell is wrong with you? that sentance not only didn't make sence, but it had nothing to do with my example!
What I said was "killed a family of 5" (IE: It was YOU who was the person that turned around and hit THEM) not "suicidal" pedestrians jumping infront of you. What you said (if applied to the same context as me) is bassically talking about a girl turning around and screwing a guy specifically TO get pregnant and lieing to him about it.
And I said "CONTRACEPTION IS CAN NOT BE 100% SAFE!" because it seriously can not be. There is always problems, errors, etc.
If anything, contraception (in relation to the driving analogy) is representative of 'paying close attention to everything around you, driving safely etc.' which would once again minimize the chance of hitting someone (or getting someone pregnant)