Poll: American?s disillusion with WW2

[skeliton112]

Now it?s a common fact that the American army came to aid the allied forces engaged across Europe.
However Americans believed this meant they single handily turned the tide of the war and ?won it?.

How much do you think Americans are bias about their engagement in World War 2?

Personally being English I feel their involvement was instrumental in ending the war a lot quicker but I think the true praise belongs to British and Canadians, but more so the French, those who faught the war from the bloody begining to the bloody end. Their country is a living memento to the fallen, all over and I mean all over France you can find graveyards and a memorials to all the men whom fought and died in that horrendous war.

I appologise for posting within the incorrect threat catagorey

What about us Ausies? Didnt even mention us mate

OT: the americans did help but not as much as it is made out they did.

 

[Sovvolf]

The reason why it seems so US dominated... is because much of the material about the war comes out of the US, and so it carries a US perspective.

which again was mostly spewed out of Cold war propaganda. Children would read a history where Americans kicked all the arse and ran out of all the bubble gum to show how good they were at war. And thus generations later... Those misconceptions and other outright lies still live on. through a good amount of Americans.

Then of course there's the history channel which often goes as far as making shit up just for entertainment value... So its no wonder that people have a skewed view on the war. That being said, most of these Americans that scream "We won the war, without us you'd be speaking German" are more then likely the dim witted but louder majority and probably don't represent the more quite learned American.

Our history of both wars in Briton was much different than what Americans probably would have learned. Most of what we learned went on to show how screwed up Briton was for war time propaganda and how we were at times just as bad as the enemy as far as the behaviour of our troops could be. Then of course there was the glory of winning battle that we learned... While also learning about how shit it was sitting in the muddy trenches getting shell-shock and trench foot while eating bully beef and hard mouldy biscuits.

 

[bz316]

Russia raised their flag over the Reichstag in Berlin. I think that technically makes them the winners...

 

[Lonan]

Not to sound like a pompous American here, but without the US, I feel Germany would have won.

Honestly, Britain was going down. You guys survived to the bloody end and whatnot, but were not fairing to well, and without American industrial production and support, Britain wouldn't have had the war machines to fight with.

It's just a shame that being the isolationist country America was back then it took the bombing of Pearl Harbor to convince them to join the war. It is not an uncommon view that Churchill knew about the plans to bomb Pearl Harbor however, did nothing about it, as if the harbor had not been bombed America would have sat back and let Brittan fall.

It is true that without Americas support the war on the European front would have turned out much differently however, I do believe that the Soviets would have eventually beaten the Germans in the end. Had that happened the world we live in now would be a very fundamentally different place.

Actually, the U.S. only joined when Hitler declared war on it after Japan's bombings. The U.S. did not initially declare war. It was Hitler who directly brought it into the war.

Wrong, the US declared war on December 7, 1941 when the Japanese attacked attacked, I'm not sure on the date when Hitler declared war on the US however, it was a few days after that, in response.

Well, yes. Germany declared war after. The U.S. obviously declared war on Japan, but not on Germany.

 

[Mr Smith]

I've heard from several places that up untill the point that they actually got directly involved, the Americans were tossing-up whether to side with the Nazis or the Soviets, with the intention of assisting whoever was losing in order to protract the conflict as long as possible. Whether this means they would have fought against the Allies too is anyone's guess.

 

[Blitzkreg]

American hate thread move along.

right... its kind of offensive to americans.

Its actually horrific that you're willing to say that britain, canada, and france deserve the praise more than any other country that fought in that terrible war. Every country that participated deserves complete respect, especially the veterans.

To say the british and canadians deserve the praise more is offensive because they suffered far lower casualties than americans, russians, germans, or chinese and japanese.

I've always been one to stand up for America, because it's my personal belief that it is the greatest country in the world (don't flame me, its my belief, and if we weren't the greatest, than how can we be the most powerful?). However in this particular thread, I'm willing to say that any country that participated in the war deserves credit.

Also, next time you try to flame america, a tleast trai two speqll thinkgs korektly.

 

[Nocturnal Gentleman]

which again was mostly spewed out of Cold war propaganda. Children would read a history where Americans kicked all the arse and ran out of all the bubble gum to show how good they were at war. And thus generations later... Those misconceptions and other outright lies still live on. through a good amount of Americans.

Then of course there's the history channel which often goes as far as making shit up just for entertainment value... So its no wonder that people have a skewed view on the war. That being said, most of these Americans that scream "We won the war, without us you'd be speaking German" are more then likely the dim witted but louder majority and probably don't represent the more quite learned American.

Our history of both wars in Briton was much different than what Americans probably would have learned. Most of what we learned went on to show how screwed up Briton was for war time propaganda and how we were at times just as bad as the enemy as far as the behaviour of our troops could be. Then of course there was the glory of winning battle that we learned... While also learning about how shit it was sitting in the muddy trenches getting shell-shock and trench foot while eating bully beef and hard mouldy biscuits.

Why in the world do you think that misconception is carried by the majority? As others have said I know no American that carries such a perception of the war. From my parents generation to present. The history teachers at my school taught everything about the war including shameful things going on in our country and the shit hole that was the battlefront. No body was painted a true hero. No one a true villain. Why do you think we still think the same? Our parents were taught to hide under desks to escape nuclear explosions. They don't teach that to their children. You also fail to see that many families had members in the ally armies in Europe. You think they would let that misconception stay?

To me you are unjustly slapping the messages of skewed media on us as judgment. What some movies and books said in the old days is not what most people think now. We're taught that everyone who participated towards the allies goal helped with the end result. To respect everyone's sacrifice. Instead it seems others don't teach their children the same thing. Seeing as how so many have labeled us as a useless and unneeded add on.

 

[Projo]

I'm more concerned with the German delusion that they have to ban all things related to Nazi Germany because they think we're going to associate it with them.

 

[RoBi3.0]

The real question is why the fuck does it matter, to you what Americans think?

I am an American and I honestly can say that I believe that no one nation was single handily responsible for ending the war, and there sure as hell was no winners. Everyone lost that war.

 

[Rickyvantof]

The US played a very big role in the defeat of the axis.
There were other elements too, of course, mostly the Soviet Union.

I'm Dutch by the way, so I suppose you can't call me biased.

 

[loc978]

Please don't lump all of us in with loudmouthed, ignorant conservatives. They're just a vocal minority.

Specifically LOUDMOUTHED Conservatives? Or just Conservatives? Either way, that's a broad and prejudiced assumption. As is that Conservatives are a minority, by any means. But as this is technically the wrong thread to bring this up, I submit that America's biggest focus was against Japan both in the battle for territory and the attempt at liberation of China. American involvement in Europe was significant and helpful, but by no means an awe-inspiring red-white-and-blue blitzkrieg that purified Europe like the old jingoistic propaganda posters would imply.

I meant exactly what I said. Not all conservatives are loudmouths, not all conservatives are ignorant, but those who are all three are a vocal minority... and by your response, you've got two out of three... plus being an easily offended, knee-jerk responder.

Re-read several times, had other people read it, still can't find where I was rude. I was simply pointing out an assumption that irritates me. Sure the Conservatives being numerous part is debatable, but not that many Americans will openly admit to being Liberal(or Progressive) either. Not easily offended. Barely offended. Just wanted to make my thoughts clear to the forum using your oh-so-helpful post.

Alright then, (as my Drill Sergeant used to say)I'll break it down Blue's Clues style:
Yes, specifically loudmouthed, ignorant conservatives. <-- See the italics? All one term. If a person is missing one aspect, they're not part of the group. Your initial response was well-informed, making you not ignorant, therefore not part of the group to which I was referring.
Different cultures, different focus in language, I guess. Where ya from, son?

 

[acosn]

The simple fact of the matter is that if the US hadn't gotten involved most of Europe would probably be speaking either German, or Russian. Probably German because they'd still have their Luftwaffe intact because they wouldn't get burned into the ground when Great Britain was much more isolated and cut off from any support. That and the fact that the Russians lost a huge amount of their production and supply lines in the onset of Operation Barbosa. No one really wants to hear it but it's much more the US's production that saved everyone's asses in the war more than anything else. They built most of GB's tanks for them. They gave the Russians tanks and raw materials.


It only gets scarier from there- With the British more or less locked into their island there's little stopping the Germans and Italians from securing northern Africa, including the Canal in Egypt. Australia and New Zealand are utterly cut off from their primary support, meaning they're more or less only able to defend themselves against the Japanese onslaught, and its also highly probable that from there the Japanese would probably wipe out the Chinese, or at least marginalize them to the Steppes completely.

 

[RoBi3.0]

I've heard from several places that up untill the point that they actually got directly involved, the Americans were tossing-up whether to side with the Nazis or the Soviets, with the intention of assisting whoever was losing in order to protract the conflict as long as possible. Whether this means they would have fought against the Allies too is anyone's guess.

I also have read several places that Hilter was actually an Alien intent on exterminating the human race by getting us to kill each other. Once we where all dead his species was then suppose to colonize earth as they have long since lost there world to some global catastrophe.

Once it was clear that we weren't going to lose he "beamed" back to the mothership, faked his death, and has been plotting the down fall of mankind ever since.

 

[CarlsonAndPeeters]

I think, in war, you can't say who helped the most. The Americans definitely helped to turn the tide, but that doesn't mean we (I'm American) were the most important. You can't separate the Allies and pick out who did what. D-Day, for example, was a very collaborative effort.

 

[Snownine]

the thing about ww2 i dont get is that the US only declared war on germany and japan in 1941 after they were actually attacked. ww2 started in 1939, did the americans help at all before 1941 or were they just twiddling their thumbs while britain and the rest of the world fought each other?

The US helped the allies fighting by supplying them with materials for a few months before declaring war on the axis powers. however they did not become involved personally because of a range of political reasons including the fact that many at the time did not want to get dragged into another war like WWI . On whether or not it was right to sit it out as long as they did I would have to say no comment.

 

[Rickyvantof]

I've heard from several places that up untill the point that they actually got directly involved, the Americans were tossing-up whether to side with the Nazis or the Soviets, with the intention of assisting whoever was losing in order to protract the conflict as long as possible. Whether this means they would have fought against the Allies too is anyone's guess.

I also have read several places that Hilter was actually an Alien intent on exterminating the human race by getting us to kill each other. Once we where all dead his species was then suppose to colonize earth as they have long since lost there world to some global catastrophe.

Once it was clear that we weren't going to lose he "beamed" back to the mothership, faked his death, and has been plotting the down fall of mankind ever since.

Both these stories are equally plausible.
*puts on aluminum hat*

 

[humor_involuntario]

ok ok ok
first, skullkid please listen to reason, those Americans that fought as volunteers were not THE badasses, they were there and did'd really were into the war, sort of like the Mexican (Im mexican BTW) airforce. secopnd, does someone here considers the invention of radar technology vital in brit war effort? basicly they won The Battle Of Britain because of it.
now, I am not denying the fact that theu offerd a shit ton of tanks and wepons, but, did you knew that the most powerfull tank was russian?
or that supplies were cut for a load of time?
America was vital, for some time, but was not the winner.
oh, and japan never coordinated with the nazis, they were just like "k so we r allies naw? plz?" so, I would like to consider them as different wars,but that is only my opinion, nothing else.
thank you for ur time!! `´

 

[chrono16]

and droped the bomb on hiroshima

Being proud of one of humanities greatest attrocities against civilians is probably not a good thing.

Hey, Japan was warned. It was either drop the bomb or lose a projected million Americans had we try to invade Japan. They refused to surrender even after we dropped the first one! And the cities that were bombed were major industrial cities that were vital to the Japan war effort.