Poll: Are dating games misogynistic?

[Lenin211]

My friend and I were having a discussion today about dating games. She said that because dating games portray women as things to be "won", it objectifies women. She said that it portrays women as a problem for men to overcome. I took the stance that they are probably not misogynistic because they don't actively "hate" women. The discussion got me thinking though, do dating games objectify women?

 

[StylinBones]

No, they're just games. Games aren't to be taken seriously. Life is better if you have some fun every once in a while.

 

[Tanis]

OF COURSE THEY OBJECTIFY WOMEN.

What's the difference between a slutty romance 'novel' and a dating game?
It's the same idea.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I'm not entirely sure "misogynistic" is the perfect word to describe them (there are ones where you date dudes, too - I think they're called Otome?) but based on what I've seen of them (never actually played one) the game mechanics give off an (unintended?) manipulative vibe. That's also something I'd say about most games where you grind for love interest approval points.

 

[LilithSlave]

Yes, there are Otome games.

I think that there are a lot of themes in them which are sexist. There's definitely problems in the genres. Loads, really. Some of it is just laziness with the genre.

Dating games aren't all the exact same, though. And there's nothing wrong with the concept. Can one honestly argue the concept of games revolving around dating and romance are worse than games about violence?

Honestly, they ought to go down the Love Plus route, but better. It'd be nice to see a game about not only romance, but realistic and interesting romance that is a somewhat beautified version of a real life marriage. A lot of Japanese people feel they would like a wife but feel they cannot have one. And a lot of people seem so attached to idols and fictional characters they act almost as if they are dating partners.

You would think someone would find the time and effort to actually put this into a game. Heck, I would play that. It would be interesting to see a game do an amazing job of portraying love and marriage.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Yes, there are Otome games.

I think that there are a lot of themes in them which are sexist. There's definitely problems in the genres. Loads, really. Some of it is just laziness with the genre.

Dating games aren't all the exact same, though. And there's nothing wrong with the concept. Can one honestly argue the concept of games revolving around dating and romance are worse than games about violence?

Honestly, they ought to go down the Love Plus route, but better. It'd be nice to see a game about not only romance, but realistic and interesting romance that is a somewhat beautified version of a real life marriage. A lot of Japanese people feel they would like a wife but feel they cannot have one. And a lot of people seem so attached to idols and fictional characters they act almost as if they are dating partners.

You would think someone would find the time and effort to actually put this into a game. Heck, I would play that. It would be interesting to see a game do an amazing job of portraying love and marriage.

agreed

*future world where game is released* in other news, japans birth rate has dropped to zero! Fox News believes it's those evil cartoon characters!

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Misogynistic - exhibiting or reflecting hatred or mistreatment of women.

Since most dating games are based around the fact that the people playing them like women, and enjoy dating women, even virtual women, I think calling dating games misogynistic is rather backwards and silly.

Misogyny just seems like a buzzword these days that's used by people who don't quite understand what it means, and just use it as a synonym for sexist.

 

[Tony2077]

there is a lot of generalization going on lately this i just another example of that. some are like that but some are based around romance and have good stories to them for example my girlfriend is the president. yes i play them and yes i'm a pervert but i still like them to have good stories

 

[Emiscary]

Anything that only caters to one gender's point of view is biased against the opposite gender by default.

 

[Don Savik]

Yes, there are Otome games.

I think that there are a lot of themes in them which are sexist. There's definitely problems in the genres. Loads, really. Some of it is just laziness with the genre.

Dating games aren't all the exact same, though. And there's nothing wrong with the concept. Can one honestly argue the concept of games revolving around dating and romance are worse than games about violence?

Honestly, they ought to go down the Love Plus route, but better. It'd be nice to see a game about not only romance, but realistic and interesting romance that is a somewhat beautified version of a real life marriage. A lot of Japanese people feel they would like a wife but feel they cannot have one. And a lot of people seem so attached to idols and fictional characters they act almost as if they are dating partners.

You would think someone would find the time and effort to actually put this into a game. Heck, I would play that. It would be interesting to see a game do an amazing job of portraying love and marriage.

Now if only you could get those people that fall in love with video game girls [sub]poor...poor things they are[/sub] and hook them up with other people that play these games? Kinda like, an online chat thing within the game? I have no problem with dating games, but thinking you can't have a marriage so you turn to a 2d picture is a problem, and it is fixable, for the greater good of these people.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Anything that only caters to one gender's point of view is biased against the opposite gender by default.

Misogynistic =/= biased against women

It's like the difference between "hate" and "dislike" or "prejudice." They don't mean the same thing even though dumb people use them interchangeably.

Also, quite a few women make and play those games, especially in japan, even though they predominantly cater to a male audience, which I don't think would happen nearly as often if women felt like the games were about hating the female gender.

 

[TheGreatAndPowerfulZOG]

Sex... Is something to be won. Competition for mates is one of the most basic experiences for any animal.

Obviously a game is not going to accurately portray the complexity of a human relationship, but I don't think there's anything wrong with creating a model of "dating". Like Lilith Slave said, you can't argue that it's worse than a game about killing people.

I'd love to see this genre taken more seriously, especially here in the west, where it's usually looked down on. I feel like the market is here. If you look at BioWare games, a big part of the appeal there is the relationships. I, for one, would be down if some big dev attempted to make a good, AAA dating sim.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Misogynistic =/= biased against women

Actually, in most cases it does. It means that someone hates women. One can express that in ways that are not explicitly hate. For an excellent example, see The Pick Up Artist.

It's like the difference between "hate" and "dislike" or "prejudice." They don't mean the same thing even though dumb people use them interchangeably.

Hate and dislike mean the same thing. The difference is a non-definable variation of degree of disgust with the thing in question. Generally speaking, hate is seen as more severe than dislike but trying to find purchase in a minor semantic argument like that is a bad place to go. Prejudice is the one that stands apart because it does not intrinsically mean hate; however, the most common use of the word generally relates strongly. Of course, one can be prejudiced in the good direction as well and while examples of this are common enough, it is rarely referred to as prejudice.

But, on the topic, prejudice and misogyny are strongly linked. The first is simply (and literally) a judgment cast before the relevant facts are known. Misogyny is simply a very specific example of prejudice. Defining something as misogynistic is easy enough of course. Simply find a thing that presents a negative view of a female purely on the basis of being female.

Also, quite a few women make and play those games, especially in japan, even though they predominantly cater to a male audience, which I don't think would happen nearly as often if women felt like the games were about hating the female gender.

This argument is pure fallacy. It is akin to saying "Some people jumped off a bridge therefore jumping off a bridge must be safe!".

I won't say all Dating Sims are misogynistic - I simply don't have the experience with the genre to make such a claim. What I can say is any examples that I've been pointed to are wholly and obviously textbook examples of misogyny. But then the only ones that come to my attention tend to be the really creepy ones.

 

[salinv]

You would think someone would find the time and effort to actually put this into a game. Heck, I would play that. It would be interesting to see a game do an amazing job of portraying love and marriage.

I have had nothing to do with the genre, and I have not played the game, but is that not Catherine? At least in general story and not gameplay?

 

[Racecarlock]

Well, you can't really label an entire genre with single adjectives like that. For example, the FPS genre may have call of duty, but it also has bioshock. So is it dumb or smart? It's neither. An entire genre can't simply be described as one word. Maybe a game can, but definitely not a whole genre.

 

[straymatter]

They're misogynistic inasmuch as they turn seducing women into a series of emotional hoops to be jumped through. The same can be said of games like The Sims and Persona, though, or any game that tries to emulate and game-ify human interaction--out of their context, they're degrading to all parties involved.

Then again, my experience with dating sims is pretty limited, and if I found anything rapey on my (real) dates' gameshelves I would promptly defenestrate myself and run for the hills.

 

[surg3n]

The only game that has those elements I've played is Harvest Moon (GameCube version). You have a choice of 3 girls that you can marry, you can choose one, convince them - otherwise the game will just give you a random girl.
Those cutesy games like Harvest Moon, and Animal Crossing - well they can be pretty dark sometimes. Anyway theres this one girl, little redhead, probably the coolest female character, free spirit hobo girl with a killer rack. Anyway I planned to marry her, but could never convince her, got really annoying. I'd go and speak to her, offer her a fish, or whatever - and she'd come out with stuff like ''Don't be so keen, just to say hello''... Like damn, this girl thinks I'm a loser! WTF!
Ended up marrying the farmers daughter, she's ok, but it feels like I settled for her. How depressing is that, when a game can resemble life so acutely... I was kinda in a relationship with someone I detested, we had a kid, and better options were coming out of the woodwork - my life was basically mirrored in Harvest Moon.

In Skyrim, I married Leia - again, one of the coolest female characters, and marrying seemed to just make her pointless. Now she sells the stuff I give her, she gives me money, she'll make me a pie if I ask her... but I do miss the days when we'd go out, owning bandits and generally kicking arse, how we'd laugh when she caught me checking her side boob. Those days are gone - taking her on a quest would feel like a chore now, I'm actually concerned that she'll get killed or something, we'll argue on the way, she'll embarass me in front of my enemies - so she's a trophy housewife now, nagging me everytime I accidently Fus-Ro-Da the crockery and no sex drive whatsoever. In Fable, wives sometimes give you crap weapons... is that what game programmers think marriage is about!?... monotomy? - sometimes I think it would be cool if she made me a pie without me having to ask, or washed her face, wore a nice dress now and then, ate breakfast in her underwear... anything that you don't already get with man-hands Lydia.

To me, marriage in videogames is usually pointless, and when it has a point, when its a facet of the core gameplay, it can be bloody depressing. I guess I don't understand why people would choose to play a game where relationships are the sole focus, that just seems sad, like when some Animal Crossing bastard psycho analyses you, and get's it completely right.