Poll: Are We Entitled?

[DailonCmann]

We deserve better, indeed. I am tired of reading these little kiddies defend their favourite cult EA games. Let EA games get away with this, they will not stop.

Why do we 'deserve' better?
Better what?

Besides buying their stuff, what do we do that makes us entitled to anything?

Also, calling people who disagree with your view little kiddies, is not without it's irony.

Thats right. We are only entitled to their product.

When they try to slice and dice it for extra money then i'm not getting the full product, am I? I think you guys are little kiddies not because you disagree with me, but because your arguments are always FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED. I've yet to see a good freaking argument in support of the dayonedlc nonsense.

You've been given good arguments, but you just cover your ear and go; "I don't care what you say, I'm still going to keep saying DLC is taken from the main game, and not added as an extra."

Which basicly makes your own argument invalid, because you still have access to the full product, it just costs 10 euro more.

If you say that day-1 DLC should be part of the main game, buy them both.
Problem solved.
Oh? What's that? You don't want to pay 10 euro more for the "complete" product?
Well... THEN DON'T!

oh yes this "there are good arguments you just don't understand them"

Please man, don't insult my intelligence with this nonsense. If there were good arguments why is it that everytime I engage EVERYONE they always fall to this postion: Oh there are good arguments you just don't get them

imagine that! Good arguments please. they are sucky arguments that why i debunk them. Again, here are my two points into why dayonedlc's are usually subtractive and not additional:

1.One of my most poignant points is the fact that all of this is during the inital development cycle. As in, the same budget. Let's say I grant you the point that these are additions, these are 'additions' that use the original budget. They aren't adding extra money to develop these 'additions'. yet they are charging you more for it. Does that make sense to you? An additional product that is costing the company nothing. If there is time to develop something during the first cycle then the budget had enough room for it. Ergo, there is no 'additional cost'

2. What seems more likely to you? That a company whos number one priority is to profit, would develop extra content for the consumer that would generate no extra profit. OR that they'd mince up some of the product and charge you extra for it.

Now while you're thinking about this. Do know EA games has done the latter many of times before. Example: DA2: Prince Sebastian. All the content was inside the game, you were just paying for the code.

put up or shut up.

your last post completely sidelines the issue: is it right for EA to hold content hostage inorder to squeeze more money out of its customer.

No one is saying that this is a good idea. All we said is that this is a legitimate business practice. You're essentially complianing because bacon didn't come with your cheeseburger and you don't feel like paying for it.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Just to explain this further. a boy keps playing in traffic, he gets injured every now and then. is it a slipperly slope to think he's going to get seriously injured one day?

Look up Slippery slope before you use it.

That isn't a slippery slope, that's simple probability.

If you're going to correct someone, at least be correct yourself.

 

[Epona]

Full price is whatever the retailer is charging you. Oh well, if I buy a used game at Gamestop, I am also paying full price. That doesn't count?

Well, Gamestop isn't exactly retail, it's second hand, right?

All in all, what I'm saying, if you paid the full price, no matter the number that full price was at on a given day, you're entitled to the full product.

Even if the games are being given away for free by the retailer/publisher for some reason, you're STILL entitled to the entire, full product.

See, let's do the flawed car analogies. Sure, DLC's in the form of rims and fancy paint jobs are okay. But I'm going to laugh in the face of someone who wants to charge me extra for a spare tire, something every car is required to have, something that's essentially part of the full product, not an add-on.

Well yes, Gamestop is retail. It doesn't matter if the goods are new or used.

Anyway, the way I see it, you can't punish used customers without also punishing new customers because they are part of the same chain.

The new customer bought a game for $60 and when they go to resell it, it's worth $10 less (plus they had to put a code in, something they didn't have to do until recently). The used customer doesn't get the full game because some of it has been locked behind a code.

It's ok though, fucking over your customers will eventually bankrupt you.

 

[cookyy2k]

Just to explain this further. a boy keps playing in traffic, he gets injured every now and then. is it a slipperly slope to think he's going to get seriously injured one day?

Look up Slippery slope before you use it.

That isn't a slippery slope, that's simple probability.

If you're going to correct someone, at least be correct yourself.

So then it's not a slippery slope to extrapolate a trend.

Let's look at DLC... First there was none, then you got a little extra content, then big extra content, then day 1 and on disc DLC and passes, then companies selling the ending of the game as DLC... the next stop I can see is major cuts that you need to pay for.

Besides which the initial post I made was meant to be obvious exaggeration, I wasn't saying the companies will do it, I was saying that if they did something that stupid there would still be people defending them and calling others haters and entitled.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

No one is saying that this is a good idea. All we said is that this is a legitimate business practice. You're essentially complianing because bacon didn't come with your cheeseburger and you don't feel like paying for it.

"legitmate" in what way. Can you name anyother industry that takes away content from the original purchase and then charges you more for it.

To put it in perspective. If i buy a combo; i get the burger, fries and the drink. This day one dlc is like charging me for the combo but withholding the drink until I pay the "special drinkers fee"

Not me dude, you quoted the wrong guy.

 

[Epona]

Yeah and every slippery slope isn't a fallacy either.

No, but it is a, wait for it, downhill argument.
YEAH! I will sadly be here all week, don't forget to tip your waitress.

It's not downhill if it's correct. This gen we have seen the cost of games almost double. That's right, last gen a new game was $50, this gen it STARTS at $60 and could end over $100. People used to talk about how EA was ripping people off with endless Sims and Sims 2 expansions and stuff packs but this gen...it's almost every game. Oh none are yet as bad as the Sims franchise but that is indeed the direction we are heading.

It's not the argument that's downhill, it's the industry.

 

[Vegosiux]

Well yes, Gamestop is retail. It doesn't matter if the goods are new or used.

Lost in translation then, my apologies.

Anyway, the way I see it, you can't punish used customers without also punishing new customers because they are part of the same chain.

The new customer bought a game for $60 and when they go to resell it, it's worth $10 less (plus they had to put a code in, something they didn't have to do until recently). The used customer doesn't get the full game because some of it has been locked behind a code.

It's ok though, fucking over your customers will eventually bankrupt you.

True, I also argue that used game sales enable people to buy more new games as well. I'm all on the "entitled" sid eof this argument, as long as I'm being reasonably entitled, ergo, expecting 100% of what I paid for. Bonuses are extra, of course, but with so many DLC's around already, I sometimes wonder why is there less of a core game than there are bonus frills sometimes...

 

[Tony2077]

No one is saying that this is a good idea. All we said is that this is a legitimate business practice. You're essentially complianing because bacon didn't come with your cheeseburger and you don't feel like paying for it.

"legitmate" in what way. Can you name anyother industry that takes away content from the original purchase and then charges you more for it.

To put it in perspective. If i buy a combo; i get the burger, fries and the drink. This day one dlc is like charging me for the combo but withholding the drink until I pay the "special drinkers fee"

your still going on like its removed content when its not guess some people won't see reason even if you hit them with it

 

[Darwins_Folly]

Gaming is a very expensive hobby? I can think of few others that offer the same value for the money required. $50 or $60 bucks for even 20 hours of entertainment is a pretty damn good investment.

Gamers whine way too much about being shafted by the industry, but have no problem bending over developers and fucking them by pirating their games or buying them used from retailers. How dare they actually want to make some money off of months of work by hundreds of people?

 

[Epona]

snip

you know what. Congratulations. This is probably the worst argument I have ever seen.

"PEOPLE BK DEN BUY USE BUT EXPECT NEW QUALITY" First of all. Who? Who bought used and expected New? I dont believe that was the majority good sir, because that would be completely illogical to expect new quality with used quality.

The your last point, I assume you THINK it ties everything together, but sorry friend. I dont know how to tell you this. Your argument is logically flawed in every way. You have to tie point a to point B. You cant have some random ass story then assert your point at the end and that is your argument. That's nonsense.
Plus no one is even talking about New versus used. We are talking about day one dlc's. You know content on the disc? You know what people expect when they buy used: the fucking game. NOTHING more, nothing less. When shit is being hacked off for profit, we have a big fucking problem here.

It wont be long before we pay $60 for the engine, textures and 1st level then $10 to download each subsequent level (which are all on the disc of course) and we'll still have people paying it, saying it's a brilliant strategy and calling everyone who says it's awful entitled.

Ah yes, slippery slope fallacy, I haven't seen you in a while.

'X has done Y, which means they will eventually do Z'

A pleasure, as always.

Yeah, people used that fallacy when DLC first started getting popular and they said that eventually DLC would be coming out on Day One. We all know how wrong they were..right?

Yeah, except one thing coming to fruition doesn't automatically validate any other theories, it's still a fallacy.

Yeah and every slippery slope isn't a fallacy either.

It's considered a fallacy because there's no evidence to support it. Hindsight doesn't sudenly make supposition from the past less of a fallacy.

No evidence to support it? You don't see any evidence of games being sold in pieces? Look around buddy, it's happening.

 

[Tony2077]

snip

you know what. Congratulations. This is probably the worst argument I have ever seen.

"PEOPLE BK DEN BUY USE BUT EXPECT NEW QUALITY" First of all. Who? Who bought used and expected New? I dont believe that was the majority good sir, because that would be completely illogical to expect new quality with used quality.

The your last point, I assume you THINK it ties everything together, but sorry friend. I dont know how to tell you this. Your argument is logically flawed in every way. You have to tie point a to point B. You cant have some random ass story then assert your point at the end and that is your argument. That's nonsense.
Plus no one is even talking about New versus used. We are talking about day one dlc's. You know content on the disc? You know what people expect when they buy used: the fucking game. NOTHING more, nothing less. When shit is being hacked off for profit, we have a big fucking problem here.

It wont be long before we pay $60 for the engine, textures and 1st level then $10 to download each subsequent level (which are all on the disc of course) and we'll still have people paying it, saying it's a brilliant strategy and calling everyone who says it's awful entitled.

Ah yes, slippery slope fallacy, I haven't seen you in a while.

'X has done Y, which means they will eventually do Z'

A pleasure, as always.

Yeah, people used that fallacy when DLC first started getting popular and they said that eventually DLC would be coming out on Day One. We all know how wrong they were..right?

Yeah, except one thing coming to fruition doesn't automatically validate any other theories, it's still a fallacy.

Yeah and every slippery slope isn't a fallacy either.

It's considered a fallacy because there's no evidence to support it. Hindsight doesn't sudenly make supposition from the past less of a fallacy.

No evidence to support it? You don't see any evidence of games being sold in pieces? Look around buddy, it's happening.

it is but some times people try to see it in places its not like all that me3 dlc stuff that's floating around like shit in a clogged toilet

 

[Tony2077]

No one is saying that this is a good idea. All we said is that this is a legitimate business practice. You're essentially complianing because bacon didn't come with your cheeseburger and you don't feel like paying for it.

"legitmate" in what way. Can you name anyother industry that takes away content from the original purchase and then charges you more for it.

To put it in perspective. If i buy a combo; i get the burger, fries and the drink. This day one dlc is like charging me for the combo but withholding the drink until I pay the "special drinkers fee"

your still going on like its removed content when its not guess some people won't see reason even if you hit them with it

You've yet to prove to me that its additional not subtractive. The prothean dlc in particular was mentioned in the leaks. So you know, it was planed to be in the original game and then shucks! They figured they could use it to screw more money out of us.

denying content to others just to make a quick buck. Deplorable.

how can you be so sure its the dlc that being talked about in the leak. you can't now can we stop this bs before i go insane. the forum thing says it was worked on after the game was done now kindly stop forcing the same old bullshit on us