Poll: BBC News Article: Sexual harrasment in video games

[Tsaba]

This isn't a problem we face because of gaming, but, because of society, we talk about people being "equal," but, in reality we make months for races and genders so we can make them feel good about themselves, we constantly talk and bicker about the problem instead of solving issues we try to appease them. If we want to beat this we need to stop talking about it, just stop. We need to treat people as people and stop pointing out their differences, we can just move past it together.

EDIT: Bullies (because that's what they are) won't be bullies if the majority stick together and show that they are wrong, those who watch are just as guilty as those who do the offense.

 

[Warped_Ghost]

You may find yourself surrounded one day.
You may be verbally wounded.
You know the trolls can smell your figurative blood.
You know they will circle you like sharks.
You can fight back.
You can use things so powerful that they can no longer bother you with comments on your mother.
You can use the ultimate authority of.......
the mute and block comments features.

 

[LokiSuaveHP]

The console shooter community is probably only upstaged by the fighting game community with regards to the amount of ignorant 17-24 year olds, which is unfortunate. I use my ignore/report abuse quite liberally in Diablo 3, World of WarCraft, and other games, and there is a well set up system to report this sort of thing. Sexism and racism are in the culture, but that doesn't make them right.

If I was female, though, I would likely avoid revealing it. If that's impossible, then reporting the abusing parties is pretty much the only thing that you can do. The beautiful thing about video games is that they don't discriminate and everyone has a fair shot. This is something that needs to stop, unfortunately, if you've hung around any 15-18 year old boys (and sometimes their fathers), then you know that this isn't going to stop any time soon.

 

[Flailing Escapist]

Two questions: Are they correct and are they your peers?

-Are you suppose to be in the kitchen?

-Are you fat, ugly or slutty?

-Do you care enough about them to be effected by what they say?

No? Then why are you complaining? It's background noise, it's not true and I have never seen a mic that can't be shut off or, you know removed from your head (or an email that couldn't be deleted, etc.)

Grow a pair, people.

 

[Eric Morales]

The internet in general is in dire need of smacktard fumigation. I wouldn't mind implementing something like what Extra Credits proscribed.

That or some kind of feature built into next gen computers and controllers that electrocutes people who are being jackasses.

 

[WindKnight]

And of course, the most telling thing is that whenever someone suggests a geuine way to get rid of it (ie. when you sign up for an online service you display your real name/location) everyone, even the people who manage to rein themselves in, fight against it and claim it's a violation of their civil rights (which sounds a bit stupid when, say, an American is arguing against a British person where the rights are different, but hey, I don't make the rules.)

I'm open about being transgender on the internet, and generally present as female (as I consider myself to be female). However, where I live is rather prejudiced, and I neither feel strong or brave enough to be open about that in the 'real world'. I'd rather not give out my real name as (a) I'd rather be seen as the gender I feel I am and (b) I'd rather this didn't get out where I live and I end facing a metric tonne of crap from people. This is kind of why I don;t link my TG nature to my live account either, as I'd rather not deal with this kind of abuse, and I can't mask my voice to sound female.

Seriously, anyone who doesn't consider this a problem must go now and read fat, ugly or slutty. While some of them are funny in their raging at being beaten, or their desperation to see some boobies, even those devolve into some pretty nasty and unpleasant language very quickly. This aggression and, well, dehumanization goes beyond trash talk and banter into very unpleasant territory that is very wrong and we should not put up with.

 

[orangeban]

Games, and in particular our culture of gamers, have a long way to come in terms of acceptance of women and other minorities. I think a prime example of this is the number of people on this thread who just don't care. They don't personally harass women, or they aren't women, or they've faced similar abuse and didn't care, so they don't understand how it's an issue.

What these people don't realise is, we have created an extraordinarily hostile culture with videogames. You don't go to bookclubs and have people yell, "OMG, you read Catcher in the Rye? ******!" or "LOL, women reading books, you should have spices in the kitchen, not books! LOLOLOL Where tits?"

There are various reasons for this, games being aimed at straight, white, cis, male, teens to early twenties university students, games taking place over the internet with all the protections anonymity provides, the competitive nature of games (this is one reason why sports have similar problems with hostile cultures) and probably some other things I can't think of.

This problem has increased to the point where the God damn BBC is reporting on it people! We are renowned for having an unfriendly and close-minded community at this point!

So why should we tackle it? Seems pretty simple to me, if we can create a friendlier, more accepting community then firstly it's more fun for everyone involved, secondly we can attract those minorities and oppressed groups that are pushed away from gaming and thirdly we will be seen as more mature and respected by our wider culture.

While I'd argue all those things are desirable in themselves, they also lead to more people entering gaming and more acceptance of gaming, expanding the medium and allowing it to grow and develop.

How we deal with this hostility is a tricky one. Clamping down on unacceptable behaviour is a good start. By making it clear that harassment is unacceptable we can influence our culture away from it. This can be accomplished by stricter rules, better systems for reporting assholes and clear disapproval from within communities.

 

[The Lunatic]

What can you do about it?

All you can really do is use the report function and mute the offending people.

Can't really expect Microsoft to know everything you're saying at all times.

 

[Zen Toombs]

How is anonymous trash talking sexual harassment? Christ, grow the fuck up.

*baka*

The anonymous part is irrelevant. Sexist trash talking is sexist.[footnote]Note the name[/footnote] Sexism is bad.[footnote]Duh.[/footnote] Therefore, sexist trash talking is bad.[footnote]

[/footnote]

Yes, men have it bad too, but anyone who refuses to see how the situation is different for women is wilfully ignoring the problem.

Have you considered not revealing your gender?

And why should someone have to do that? Noone should have to hide their gender.... Nevermind, Eamar said it far better than I could at the top of this page.

-Being a Champion-

Props Eamar!

 

[Eamar]

Games, and in particular our culture of gamers, have a long way to come in terms of acceptance of women and other minorities. I think a prime example of this is the number of people on this thread who just don't care. They don't personally harass women, or they aren't women, or they've faced similar abuse and didn't care, so they don't understand how it's an issue.

What these people don't realise is, we have created an extraordinarily hostile culture with videogames. You don't go to bookclubs and have people yell, "OMG, you read Catcher in the Rye? ******!" or "LOL, women reading books, you should have spices in the kitchen, not books! LOLOLOL Where tits?"

There are various reasons for this, games being aimed at straight, white, cis, male, teens to early twenties university students, games taking place over the internet with all the protections anonymity provides, the competitive nature of games (this is one reason why sports have similar problems with hostile cultures) and probably some other things I can't think of.

This problem has increased to the point where the God damn BBC is reporting on it people! We are renowned for having an unfriendly and close-minded community at this point!

So why should we tackle it? Seems pretty simple to me, if we can create a friendlier, more accepting community then firstly it's more fun for everyone involved, secondly we can attract those minorities and oppressed groups that are pushed away from gaming and thirdly we will be seen as more mature and respected by our wider culture.

While I'd argue all those things are desirable in themselves, they also lead to more people entering gaming and more acceptance of gaming, expanding the medium and allowing it to grow and develop.

How we deal with this hostility is a tricky one. Clamping down on unacceptable behaviour is a good start. By making it clear that harassment is unacceptable we can influence our culture away from it. This can be accomplished by stricter rules, better systems for reporting assholes and clear disapproval from within communities.

Thank you. You speak sense

I really think many gamers (including, perhaps especially, the apathetic ones) need to wake up to how we're perceived by the general public, and to get some perspective. Why do people think this behaviour is acceptable or "not worth making a fuss about" when it happens in gaming? They'd never stand for it if their mothers/sisters/girlfriends/friends were faced with this crap in other hobbies >.<

EDIT:

Props Eamar!

Thanks

 

[Something Amyss]

Is it because of the recently popular immature jokes of a womans place being in the kitchen or is it just because people are jerks?

Recent?

Furthermore, I do like how those jokes tend to snap back at themselves quite alot. After all, if you drop the "arr kitchen sandvich olololo"-line, you've basically confessed that you can't manage to make your own sandviches and need a perpetual mum to look after you since you can't do that yourself. But I suppose seeing that requires a bit more insight than what most of the perpetrators can muster...

It's already been demonstrated that you haven't confessed that, but are rather relegating women to thankless and menial chores, but I'll say it again, just to be clear.

Men give each other shit in a similar fashion all the time, you just can't take it to heart.

Except that's not always true, but why should that get in the way of a baseless stereotype?

How is anonymous trash talking sexual harassment? Christ, grow the fuck up.

Oh strawmen, how fun they are to knock down.

If you run into a group of asshats online, dont fucking stay there, get out of the server and go to another one, there are shit tons of them everywhere, or mute, or ban, or kick.

There are tools in place for this, USE THEM.

Of course, they're everywhere, so "go somewhere else" is kind of a poor solution. And I like how the answer to a detrimental cultural attitude comes down to "just ignore it."

Really, this is something we should be examining. the "just ignore it" attitude is kinda how we end up with guys like Aris Bakhtanians. Ummm....Yay for tacit permissiveness?

 

[Kahunaburger]

-Being a Champion-

+1

How we deal with this hostility is a tricky one. Clamping down on unacceptable behaviour is a good start. By making it clear that harassment is unacceptable we can influence our culture away from it. This can be accomplished by stricter rules, better systems for reporting assholes and clear disapproval from within communities.

Also, this. If people call others out on being dicks, use kick/ban options where available, and so on, it would be a step towards getting the sexists/racists/homophobes to cut the crap.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

You don't go to bookclubs and have people yell, "OMG, you read Catcher in the Rye? ******!" or "LOL, women reading books, you should have spices in the kitchen, not books! LOLOLOL Where tits?"

If book clubs were like these, I think I would actually join 2-3 of them just for all the lulz involved with that. Thank you for typing that out, I had a decent burly laugh reading it.

 

[ElPatron]

Have you considered not revealing your gender?

Why? Why the hell should I, the innocent party, have to go out of my way to keep my gender hidden? Why should I have to worry about choosing a name and avatar? Why should I be excluded from voicechat?

And I ask you why the hell would you have to go out of your way to reveal your gender?

And why do you use voice chat? I only use voice chat while playing with people I know, on a private Skype call/Teamspeak server. Other than that I have no interest to lose my cool trying to get a bunch of retards I don't know to follow a strategy knowing that they won't.

My point is not that we should be forcing the police to monitor online chat (though I love that you consider sexual harassment law "a waste of taxpayer's money")

I love how you twisted my words. Voice chat would require a massive workforce to listen to them all. The ratio of actual emergencies/hours listened would be ridiculous.

It's a waste of taxpayer's money. Specially when not all griefing/voice chat harassing can't be considered actual sexual harassment.

 

[Eamar]

And I ask you why the hell would you have to go out of your way to reveal your gender?

And why do you use voice chat? I only use voice chat while playing with people I know, on a private Skype call/Teamspeak server. Other than that I have no interest to lose my cool trying to get a bunch of retards I don't know to follow a strategy knowing that they won't.

So your solution to the problem is to sweep it under the carpet. And to tell women not to use a feature of an entertainment system they pay for. That's fine if that's how you want to deal with it. I disagree.

I do not "go out of my way to reveal my gender." I'm not a bloody masochist. The question I asked was why should a woman, any woman, revealing her gender be something to be avoided in the first place?

I love how you twisted my words. Voice chat would require a massive workforce to listen to them all. The ratio of actual emergencies/hours listened would be ridiculous.

It's a waste of taxpayer's money. Specially when not all griefing/voice chat harassing can't be considered actual sexual harassment.

Ok, so perhaps I misinterpreted your statement in the heat of the moment. Apologies. However, I never said that the police should be monitoring voicechat. I said the exact opposite of that right there in the post you quoted. I then proposed a more realistic solution (ie that the rest of the community should not tolerate sexism), but I see you chose to ignore that part.

 

[ElPatron]

snip

I love my country. I am the kind of person that gets a parking ticket and rejoices that the system works.

Call me whatever you want, sticks and stones etc. Specially on the internet. There is no way I will ever, ever take you seriously. Oh, you want to break into my house and kill my family? Be my guest. Hope you enjoy self-defense laws being used to their fullest extent.

There are laws that deal with the things you say. Your freedom to slander me on the media is my freedom to sue your ass for doing it. That's the way the patriots who fought for freedom wanted it to be.

you chose to ignore that part.

Because there is nothing to argue about that. Do you realistically expect this community to change in the next 5 years? I don't, so I have nothing to say about it.

 

[PinkiePyro]

i never bother revealing my gender for this reason

though there is a flip side to this too
when played maplestory i got constant unwanted waves of "positive" attention for being a girl with a nice looking character seriously when ever I had to grind on that game I had to find a deserted channel or be swarmed with guys asking to marry my character to theirs

 

[Eamar]

Because there is nothing to argue about that. Do you realistically expect this community to change in the next 5 years? I don't, so I have nothing to say about it.

How can you be this defeatist? Call me an optimist, but yes, I do expect this community to change over time. As more women join the community, indeed as the community becomes more diverse in general, it'll have to.

I find it curious that in response to TJC you wax lyrical about legal rights, yet expect women to just roll over and accept harassment*. Colour me confused.

*and again, I'm not advocating any sort of police monitoring system, so don't start. The only reason I brought the law into this discussion in the first place was to point out the severity of what we have grown to tolerate in this community: behaviour that is totally and utterly unacceptable anywhere else.