Poll: Bioware needs to grow up

[BloatedGuppy]

Alternatively titled "Why Dragon Age 2 was a step in the right direction, if they hadn't dropped the ball".

My girlfriend, bless her little heart, recently decided she'd heard quite enough about these old classic RPGs I'm always rambling on about, and wanted to try them for herself. So we downloaded Planescape Torment for her from GOG, and she finished up her play through the other night. Now, I've always held Planescape in high regard, and I've always felt that Bioware...which is sort of our go-to developer for high end story based RPGs these days...kept falling short of what Black Isle was doing with narrative over a decade ago.

Spoiler: Planescape: Torment ending spoilers

Forget all the themes about belief, loss, guilt, grief and redemption woven throughout the story, the canonical ending has you merging with your own severed mortality...in effect ending your immortality and facing the punishment that awaits you for your extraordinary crimes. It's thoughtful, bittersweet, non-violent, and above all else, deeply original.

Now we have KOTOR, Mass Effect and Dragon Age: Origins. Morality is black and white (most achingly in KOTOR, where the "evil" options are the most absurd Snidely Whiplash nonsense imaginable), the heroes are all preposterous Mary Sues, and the storylines are all hackneyed "Boy's Own Adventure" rubbish. An evil Sith is threatening the universe! You must gather a band of plucky companions to stop him. An evil monster is threatening the kingdom! You must gather a band of plucky companions to stop him. Evil robots are threatening the galaxy! You must gather a band of plucky companions to stop them.

Now, there's nothing wrong with a little tepid story telling if the game and the presentation are strong, and Bioware usually delivers in this area. They write endearing characters, their dialogue sparkles with wit and personality, and they've clearly got a good handle on using music, cinematics and pacing to build atmosphere. All good. But these story lines and characters have the depth of a communion wafer. They can do better than this. They should do better than this.

Dragon Age 2 seemed like a step in the right direction. Instead of a big Foozle terrorizing the nation, we have the Arishok and the Qunari...a cauldron of political tension pushing to the boiling point by his lawful abhorrence of the depravities of Kirkwall's society. And we have the Templar/Mage conflict, where you're forced to choose between the lesser of two evils based on your personal philosophy. These are interesting conflicts, and a step in the right direction. Of course they were sloppily written and underdeveloped because Dragon Age was rushed out the door after two and a half weeks of development time, but they showed promise. And because DA2 fell flat on its ass to a certain degree, I am almost positive when DA3 rolls around Bioware will strive to redeem themselves by giving us another goddam ancient evil to overcome. WITH OUR PLUCKY COMPANIONS.

And really, at that point, I feel like I'm going to come close to being done with Bioware. Oh, don't get me wrong. I'll finish up my Mass Effect story. I care about my Shepard, I do. And I'll still look with interest on what they're up to. But this stuff will become Steam sale day purchases instead of hungrily awaited launch day buys, because there is absolutely no defensible reason why a 12 year old game should be running circles around the newest titles from a prominent RPG developer that prides itself on story. There are a lot of adults playing RPGs now. Give us some adult stories. Give us some thematic depth. Give us some complex, conflicted characters. Give us ethical dilemmas beyond "save the baby" and "shoot the baby in the face, and LAUGH!". No more Archdemons and Reapers and Sith Lords bent on destroying the galaxy because OMGSOEVIL. Enough of that shit. I'm not 12 any more, and neither are you.

Tell us a real story.

PS - Poll added for shits and giggles. I'm sure the Escapist will eat it anyway.

 

[Zhukov]

Ohh, faint praise of DA2 and criticism of Bioware. This looks like it'll be a nice friendly thread. Right? (EDIT: Surprisingly, it has turned out to be a friendly thread. Guess that'll show me.)

...

Yeah, I have to agree with you. I don't really want to, but I do.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Bioware's games, especially the new ones (so you fans can put the knives and clubs away). I like the settings, enjoy the gameplay, love the characters and dialogue. But the actual stories are pretty lacklustre. That is to say, conceptually lacklustre. They're very well presented on a minute-to-minute basis, but there's not a lot of substance to them.

Strangely, all the substance ends up in the subplots. Just look at Mordin's story in ME2. A scientist struggling, successfully, to rationalise his use of a bio-weapon. Or Jack's for that matter. Someone hardened almost beyond recovery from decades of emotional abuse and hardship, building what little sense of identity she had on misremembered events. Good stuff, right? But the main story? "Aliens are messing with us, gather a team and go fuck 'em up."

Same could be said for DA:O. All those detailed characters. Morrigan and her almost-perfect veneer of pragmatism. Leliana and her ambiguous little crisis of faith. Sten and his bizarrely alien views. Once again, good stuff. Once again, the main plot boiled down to fighting off a horde of orcs by killing their demonic dragon.

I would dearly like to see them attempt to break away from their formula. I think they could really work some magic if they held off on the gratuitous amounts of "epic" power fantasies and basic wish fulfilment and put their hand to something with a more personal focus.

However, I have this nasty little suspicion that if they were to do such a thing their fans would go utterly apeshit. Y'know, just a hunch.

 

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

Here's the thing about KOTOR: It's a Star Wars game. Star Wars is all about black and white morality, and any attempts at interesting grey areas are either given the axe by LucasArts or declared non-canon.

I agree that the story was weak and the villains were horrible, but then I pretty much hate Star Wars in general for that very reason.

 

[Phishfood]

I'll admit, it drives me a bit nuts seeing moral choices boil down to "power an orphanage" or "electrocute a box of kittens". Wheres the "do nothing" middle ground option? Wheres the "Hire a competent electrician" option? What about the "just get the damn orphans a family" option?

Wheres the "invent combustible lemons and throw them back at life?" option?

 

[RagTagBand]

Whilst not perfect Bioware are still better than everyone else.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Whilst not perfect Bioware are still better than everyone else.

Simply untrue. Obsidian is head and shoulders above Bioware in terms of quality of narrative. They just can't put together a working, polished game to save their lives.

 

[ThePurpleCube]

I can see where you're coming from. Big Damn Heroes can get a little grating and more subtle campaigns would be quite interesting.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Overall, I'd say the Mass Effect series has the best storylines and the most interesting characters. That's not saying much, however. Drew Karpyshyn is a great writer in his own right, but he has to spin such huge narratives and work so many characters into the mix that in some ways, things are bound to fall flat. I don't think we'll ever have a Faulkner or a Victor Hugo at the helm of a studio's writing team, and I think it's a damn shame.

In novels, you can tell the author can take his time, that he has leisure to develop his characters as he sees fit. In games, the player's allies have to occasionally spin on a dime just because you happened to press E or to click your mouse at the right time. I'm simplifying here, I know, but that's the premise of Mass Effect's companion missions. Crush Threat no 237, earn Miranda's loyalty and trust and prove to her that being oh-so-perfect isn't as much of a curse as she makes it seem. Crush Threat no 238, earn Garrus' loyalty a second time for allowing him to either go Batman on his traitorous former ally or by having him see how forgiveness is the most noble option. It all boils down to button presses, and at the end of it all, they'll walk through fire for you.

Honestly, while BioWare has lost some of its charm, I'd say we're better off with focused universes that offer us *some* character development, rather than Bethesda's school of giving us enormous canvases to play with, filled with one-liner-spouting proto-personalities.

In other words, I'd rather take Jack's wangsty and belligerent attitude, which is a cliché in and out of itself, than huge, expansive worlds filled with one-note characters that basically spout "I'm Imperial no. 2,345. I read books and I snore at night. Good day!"

It's sad, I know, but the TLDR bottles down to how I'd rather take bad characters than no characters at all. For the record, I'm looking forward to Skyrim like you wouldn't believe - I just have to acknowledge that this is one fundamental and possibly indestructible flaw of Bethesda's roleplaying model.

 

[MarkDavis94]

I wouldn't say the morality in Dragon Age Origins was black or white. In DAO you had many different dialogue options and it wasn't 'Good, Neutral, Evil', which DA2 went down the path of but changed it into 'Good, Cocky, Dicksmack'.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

In novels, you can tell the author can take his time, that he has leisure to develop his characters as he sees fit. In games, the player's allies have to occasionally spin on a dime just because you happened to press E or to click your mouse at the right time. I'm simplifying here, I know, but that's the premise of Mass Effect's companion missions. Crush Threat no 237, earn Miranda's loyalty and trust and prove to her that being oh-so-perfect isn't as much of a curse as she makes it seem. Crush Threat no 238, earn Garrus' loyalty a second time for allowing him to either go Batman on his traitorous former ally or by having him see how forgiveness is the most noble option. It all boils down to button presses, and at the end of it all, they'll walk through fire for you.

I agree with you, and I don't expect incredibly rich character development and narrative out of computer games. Not yet, anyway. I recognize there are limitations in the medium, and the more choice you allow the player to have, the greater impact on events, the shallower those characters and plot points need to be to provide flexibility.

It's just...I keep coming back to Planescape. Or even Mask of the Betrayer. Why can THEY do it? Why is Planescape oozing with imagination and mature, thoughtful, thematic depth, and a decade later I'm fighting "The Darkspawn" who are trying to take over the world. Why? Because they're evil, that's why!

What I'm saying is I think there's a lot more they can be doing, even with the limitations they're stuck with. Like you, I enjoy the games for what they are, but they could be SO MUCH MORE than what they are, and all it would take is better writing. Not a bigger development team, not tons more resources and time, not a super computer to process complex AI, just better, braver, more imaginative writing. And I think they're already capable of it. They just keep feeding us this tripe instead.

I wouldn't say the morality in Dragon Age Origins was black or white. In DAO you had many different dialogue options and it wasn't 'Good, Neutral, Evil', which DA2 went down the path of but changed it into 'Good, Cocky, Dicksmack'.

At the end of the day, though, you served as The Hero, and you were striving to stop The Ancient Evil, with your Mixed Race Fellowship. Bioware talked a lot about how DA:O was inspired by A Song of Ice and Fire, and I'd like to have seen them do more than just steal the Night's Watch lock, stock and barrel.

 

[Zhukov]

Whilst not perfect Bioware are still better than everyone else.

Simply untrue. Obsidian is head and shoulders above Bioware in terms of quality of narrative. They just can't put together a working, polished game to save their lives.

Would you say Alpha Protocol is a good example of Obsidian's narrative chops?

(Using that example because it's the only Obsidian game I've played.)

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Would you say Alpha Protocol is a good example of Obsidian's narrative chops?

(Using that example because it's the only Obsidian game I've played.)

No, Mask of the Betrayer is a much better example than Alpha Protocol or even New Vegas. AP is an underrated game that does some good things, but it's such an unrelenting mess on a technical and presentation level it's a chore to appreciate.

 

[9thRequiem]

Here's the thing about KOTOR: It's a Star Wars game. Star Wars is all about black and white morality, and any attempts at interesting grey areas are either given the axe by LucasArts or declared non-canon.

I agree that the story was weak and the villains were horrible, but then I pretty much hate Star Wars in general for that very reason.

Actually, this is a very good point I'd not considered.

Mass Effect 2 did have a number of interesting moral choices - for instance destroy the heretic geth, or brainwash them? But the P/R bar kind of pushed you towards one extreme or the other, instantly destroying nuance.

I'm not sure I quite agree with your disdain for the companions, nor would I label all of them plucky (although a number certainly are), but I think you're right with the central idea that the main plot needs more subtlety and less "MEGA-BAD DUDE(S)". Of course, I'm not sure they can do that, since they're stuck in a need to out-do the previous titles to keep things interesting.

 

[AVATAR_RAGE]

They are okay I like the story for DA2 even if it seemed rushed in game. Though most srtong points of Bioware stories come from character development not narrative.

 

[Liberaliter]

It isn't the most serious, but I don't want it to be. It tells a good story within the confines of a well crafted world. That's enough for me.

 

[Undead Dragon King]

Simply untrue. Obsidian is head and shoulders above Bioware in terms of quality of narrative. They just can't put together a working, polished game to save their lives.

Since Obsidian is the closest thing to a successor studio that Black Isle can claim to have, I can understand your line of thinking here.

However, Obsidian suffers the absolute reverse problem of BioWare. Conceptually, their overall stories are great. However, they just can't make a functioning game.

And even then, BioWare's stories aren't totally cut-and-paste. You're completely leaving out the issues of plot twists and villains that make BioWare's stories unique. The plot twists of KOTOR and Jade Empire were amazing, narrative-changing events, and the antagonists of Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins were as deep and flawed as you could ask for from any villain.

Granted, Mass Effect 2's story didn't have a great overarching plot, but the characters and their individual missions were enough to power through it. Plus, it fell into that "middle movie" hole where it can't have a definite beginning or end. Mass Effect 3 will have some amazing plot twists in it, mark my words.

 

[T.D.]

The poll is a bit biased don't you think?

But I agree that the main stories of Bioware's games recently have been a bit dull, but they still present them brilliantly and the side stories are mainly interesting. Although I did like Jade Empires story.

 

[Woodsey]

Whilst not perfect Bioware are still better than everyone else.

Simply untrue. Obsidian is head and shoulders above Bioware in terms of quality of narrative. They just can't put together a working, polished game to save their lives.

Would you say Alpha Protocol is a good example of Obsidian's narrative chops?

(Using that example because it's the only Obsidian game I've played.)

If he says yes, he should be shot. Its PMC Plot Line #333 (albeit one with a wildly inconsistent tone) - the game's only redeeming feature was how malleable the story was, but that's rather redundant when it makes you want to shoot yourself.

What they were trying to do with KotOR 2 could have set them apart. Chris Avellone needs to join either BioWare or Bethesda as a lead writer though, he would seem to be very talented, but for whatever reason that studio just can't put out anything that isn't interesting in one area and shit in every other.

Having said that, KotOR 2 is the only thing to my mind that looks like it could really have stood out in that regard.

 

[Ashannon Blackthorn]

Maybe I haven't played enough of these games to so bitter and jaded like the OP. I played ME1/2 and guess what? I enjoyed them. I played DA1 and loved it. Now, am I nothing more than a Bioware fanboi? I'm sure most of the people who love to rip at them would agree but fuck them. Bioware cannot please everyone. They could make the holy bible of games and you'd still have a group of people who come on these forums, declare that the game, company and anyone who likes it are shit and stand on some moral high ground about it.

If you like it, play them. If you don't, shut the fuck up, stop thinking you're some be all end all guru of gaming and the major companies will all change how they make games ot satisfy you.

I hate to have to say that cause it sounds like I'm ripping directly into the OP, who actually says in his post he still enjoys them and would prefer more variety.

But you know? Maybe is Sheppard was this shades of gray anti-heroes, the vast bulk of people who play games like ME1 wouldn't wanna play it. I like being able ot pretend even vicariously through the game I'm some awesome noble super heroes type guy saving the world, or some demon incarnate who's gonna make it burn. Shades of gray is real life. I get enough real life in well... real life. When I personally play I wants black and white to get away from the damn gray...