Poll: Can suicide be rational?

[jthm]

ITT: people who don't understand emotional pain weigh in on things they have no experience with.

Suicide is NEVER rational in my opinion. It just yells,

"I'M A LOSER AND I CAN'T DEAL WITH MY LIFE, I MUST KILL MYSELF! BLAHH..."

There's always something you can do about an ordeal, really.

And frankly, nobody was put on this world just to shoot/hang/burn/drown/cut/decapitate/etc.
themselves.

ITT: people who don't understand emotional pain weigh in on things they have no experience with.

 

[Gitsnik]

What if you living will cause thousands of deaths? Wouldn't it be a rational thing to kill one self? if it saved the lives of others?

Then it sucks to be those thousands of people.

Amen to that.

Personally Suicide is for weak people who can;t handle what life throws at them. The only people allowed to top themselves are those who are crippled in some way, like people with ALS who will eventually be entombed in their own bodies unable to do anything. Hell I'd put a bullet in these people myself to end their suffering.

This is, almost exactly, my view on the situation.

Until recently.

With a baby sister whom I adore and look out for, a woman I finally care about for more than bedroom antics, and the potential for children of our own, I've started to modify my world view somewhat. Namely, if my death saves the aforementioned individuals then so be it. The rest of the world can get stuffed, but these are the people whom I will give my life for. Of course that is at the greatest extreme and I will do all I can to stop that from having to happen. Suicide in this case, and in the case of a terminally ill patient who wants to go out teeth bared, I feel is perfectly reasonable and rational. One is to save others, the other is to prevent additional pain and work on a "lost cause".

Also, Death before dishonour is, and was, a phrase to live by (if you're into that sort of thing).

 

[Iskenator67]

No. If your life truly sucks and is just one horror after another, suicide is a cowards way out. Normal people don't kill themselves they deal with there problems and try to make the best of it. I really don't care if someone kills themselves. I'll hand them the gun. Always happy to prune a dead branch off the tree of life. Suicide is a lot of work. You got to find a rope and leave a note and you don't know what to say. A gun is to messy and poison takes to long. It's easier just to not bother.

 

[lwm3398]

I see it as rational in the form of euthinasia. I mean, if your disease is terminal, and your just going to sit there in a bed for a few months would you rather die shortly or sit there?

Agreed. That is the only solid case for rational suicide I can see.

me too. but um...what about some super duper recovery that saves them? there's always the chance. that small,small,chance that they will be okay. who knows? read Kill Me by Stephen White. not King. White. it will change your soul.

 

[pffh]

What if you living will cause thousands of deaths? Wouldn't it be a rational thing to kill one self? if it saved the lives of others?

Then it sucks to be those thousands of people.

Personally Suicide is for weak people who can;t handle what life throws at them. The only people allowed to top themselves are those who are crippled in some way, like people with ALS who will eventually be entombed in their own bodies unable to do anything. Hell I'd put a bullet in these people myself to end their suffering.

What about people that really come to the conclusion that their lives are really only a burden on others. Financial and emotional burden on their family and friends and really believe that them not being there will in the long run make the lives of everyone around them better, even if said family/friends will be sad for a some time?

Notice that their own lives might even be pretty good.

 

[Wislong]

Anything can be rational given a back story. I could say now that I could never kill a man - which means to me that I cannot imagine a series of events that would result in me wanting to kill a man.

I have no doubt in my mind that In the futue such events are possible.

People need to stop looking without seeing, on these situation there is nearly always a series of events that have lead to someone concluding that they want to kill themselves.

 

[Keldon888]

Of course it can be rational.

Everything is situational, you are a carrier of a highly contagious fatal disease or something, That guy in independence day who flew his jet into the beam. There are rational reasons to do anything.

Also rationality is in the eye of the beholder, I can almost guarantee that the majority of suicides appear rational to those people. Their life sucks, and they don't think it can change rational solution: Suicide. Even though everyone else knows your life can change.

 

[lwm3398]

suicide because of depression or money problem is murder.

You quoted me, but it had nothing to do with what I said. As far as I'm concerned, suicide is suicide, not murder. But, It's pointless getting bogged down in a bunch of wordplay. If I wanted to kill myself, nobody has any right to try to stop me, as it is not their life. It is mine. That may be hard to swallow, but a spade is a spade. I can choose to end my existence whenever I want.

if you're another person killing a suicidal person,it's murder. imagine yourself as the killer of the suicidal person,and the suicidal person as you. killing yourself is killing,no matter what.

 

[Quickening666]

Yes, it can. Some of the responses in this thread are mind blowing in their stupidity especially the "suicide is for the weak" ones.
It probably never entered your brains that it's more than just a bad incident or two that generally causes people to commit suicide, it's a certain outlook on the world and frankly, often an honest one. Some people just look at what life is, think its pointless and decide they want no part in it. In a sense that's far more rational than working a shitty job for sixty years only to have to live on a pittance of a pension and then die and lose it all anyway which is the lot for one hell of a lot of people.
Put it this way, it's far easier to rationalise suicide than rationalise living from a philosophical standpoint. You can justify it to yourself in all kinds of ways but at the end of the day you live only to feed your own desires in the time that you're alive, pass on your genes and then die to make way for future generations. That's the game and I personally am fine with it but if some people decide that it's just not worth the pain then I can completely understand.

 

[GothmogII]

Hmm okay then, how about like this situation:

Two people must run a gauntlet of broken glass. A great reward is promised at the end, lets call this happiness. Anyway, the two start running, all is well for a time. Eventually, after a few yards, the first person just gets tired of all the pain and promptly kills himself with a piece of broken glass. The second continues on to the end, still in pain, and even more so than the first. Anyway, the second person reaches the end, and asks for his reward. He is shot in the head.

Now. Who was the stronger one? You could argue that the second person was indeed stronger, continuing onward even though in the end he still received no reward. But, in the end both died. The only difference is the first person was at least spared some of the pain. The fact the the second person died anyway makes their journey meaningless. (Though, I guess the journey is rarely ever 'meaningless' unless you say it is.)

Then again...is there a difference between death and never having done anything of significance with your life? I mean...if the best you can come up with to convince someone against suicide is by calling them cowards and idiots...why exactly are you arguing with them in the first place? Isn't that counter-productive? Or...going under the assumption that thinly veiled scorn is going rub off and make them go 'Oh what a fool I've been wanting to die! Your oh so tactful insults and jibes have sure convinced me that life is worth living!'

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Die at your own machinations, rather then others.

Hitler's suicide was rational for reference.

 

[jasoncyrus]

For the few that quoted me since I cant be bthered searching them out, the reason i stated they were weak because honestly, if you think life is so bad that you have to kill yourself, then you arn't strong enough to deal with life itself. OTher people can do it with ease. It's not hard, all you have to do is remember one thing, "I'm probably going to outlive my tormentors" and be smug about it forever. Personally I always remember I'm better at being me (an evil sob) than anyone else on the planet. Only difference is they have more money and less principles.

What if you living will cause thousands of deaths? Wouldn't it be a rational thing to kill one self? if it saved the lives of others?

Then it sucks to be those thousands of people.

Personally Suicide is for weak people who can;t handle what life throws at them. The only people allowed to top themselves are those who are crippled in some way, like people with ALS who will eventually be entombed in their own bodies unable to do anything. Hell I'd put a bullet in these people myself to end their suffering.

What about people that really come to the conclusion that their lives are really only a burden on others. Financial and emotional burden on their family and friends and really believe that them not being there will in the long run make the lives of everyone around them better, even if said family/friends will be sad for a some time?

Notice that their own lives might even be pretty good.

Those people need to remember they can start over whenever they want. Get their debts written off, move to a new city, get new friends. It takes time and effort but its a lot more effective than suicide.

 

[GothmogII]

For the few that quoted me since I cant be bthered searching them out, the reason i stated they were weak because honestly, if you think life is so bad that you have to kill yourself, then you arn't strong enough to deal with life itself. OTher people can do it with ease. It's not hard, all you have to do is remember one thing, "I'm probably going to outlive my tormentors" and be smug about it forever. Personally I always remember I'm better at being me (an evil sob) than anyone else on the planet. Only difference is they have more money and less principles.

What if you living will cause thousands of deaths? Wouldn't it be a rational thing to kill one self? if it saved the lives of others?

Then it sucks to be those thousands of people.

Personally Suicide is for weak people who can;t handle what life throws at them. The only people allowed to top themselves are those who are crippled in some way, like people with ALS who will eventually be entombed in their own bodies unable to do anything. Hell I'd put a bullet in these people myself to end their suffering.

What about people that really come to the conclusion that their lives are really only a burden on others. Financial and emotional burden on their family and friends and really believe that them not being there will in the long run make the lives of everyone around them better, even if said family/friends will be sad for a some time?

Notice that their own lives might even be pretty good.

Those people need to remember they can start over whenever they want. Get their debts written off, move to a new city, get new friends. It takes time and effort but its a lot more effective than suicide.

I can trudge to work day after day till I die of old age, that does not a strong person make. It's hard to put a qualifier on 'strength' being that amongst so many other things, it's so damn subjective.

Hmm, as for the just 'start over' idea, that's great, really, if you enjoy living on the streets. And honestly, how many people can actually do that? You hear every so often about that one hobo who pulled himself up, wrote a book and is now a millionaire, but, he's not a common figure, nor is it just that easy a thing to escape for everyone else once you get that far down in life.

 

[Ursus Astrorum]

It depends on the mindset of the person in question as well as the method of suicide, to be honest. If ending one's own life was the only way to prevent harm from coming to someone, whether it's one important (to the person in question) man or a million faceless lives, then it would be the most logical to trade one's life for the lives of others.

However, since that situation hardly ever occurs in real life (because even if all the world's a stage, the playwright SUCKS), then I will go with a maybe. After all, just because I can't find an immediate and relevant reason to commit suicide doesn't mean that the person five blocks down from me does. I'd tell you to ask him, but I don't think he's much for talking anymore.

 

[Gitsnik]

For the few that quoted me since I cant be bthered searching them out, the reason i stated they were weak because honestly, if you think life is so bad that you have to kill yourself, then you arn't strong enough to deal with life itself.

Go back, read my quote. It might provide you with a different thought process, and it doesn't seem to be following the trend of everyone else's "It's not weak" responses.

 

[CuddlyCombine]

Those people need to remember they can start over whenever they want. Get their debts written off, move to a new city, get new friends. It takes time and effort but its a lot more effective than suicide.

Ideally, yes. Realistically, no. Or at least, they'd need a lot of sympathy and help from the outside, which is hard to come by. If this wasn't so, homeless people would number in the hundreds instead of thousands in most cities. But, as it is now, it's hard to get a start unless you manage to get under the wing of a charitable organization (not to mention that any organization which has a wide-enough scope to help you start back up again can't service too many people).

 

[ModReap]

A lot of people forget that killing themselves will have consequences for others

 

[Zayren]

Yes, look at Hemingway. He committed suicide when diagnosed with, I think it was cancer, because it went against his "moral code" thing.

 

[jasoncyrus]

Those people need to remember they can start over whenever they want. Get their debts written off, move to a new city, get new friends. It takes time and effort but its a lot more effective than suicide.

Ideally, yes. Realistically, no. Or at least, they'd need a lot of sympathy and help from the outside, which is hard to come by. If this wasn't so, homeless people would number in the hundreds instead of thousands in most cities. But, as it is now, it's hard to get a start unless you manage to get under the wing of a charitable organization (not to mention that any organization which has a wide-enough scope to help you start back up again can't service too many people).

Or you can get a ob flipping burgers as a start, and rent a crappy room, as a start. Not hard.