Poll: Can you hate gay culture and not be homophobic?

[WeAreStevo]

I'm a huge supporter of the LGBT community and an Ally to them, and I can attest that 90% of my LGBT friends loathe people who push their views on anyone, regardless of what they are. That being said however, if it happens to come up in conversation (i.e. my husband and I or I came out when I was 13) then that is totally acceptable.

I think it becomes unnerving when every other phrase is "because I'm gay..." or "being gay I..."

But that's also annoying when you substitute "gay" with anything.

I'm so punk because...

Being a metalhead I feel...

The power of Christ compels you because...

You get the picture.

EDIT: As far as hating gay culture, there you would be wrong, as this is not considered "gay culture."

Just because a small faction of people do this very annoying behavior doesn't mean it's what everyone ascribes to.

Think of a culture you belong to. For instance, I'm a part of the body modification culture. Whenever I see someone with a horrible "prison tat" I don't think that all people with tattoos are people with shitty taste, nor do I believe that everyone with a tattoo has been to prison. It's a subset inside of the larger cultural norm that serves to bring down the larger movement.

Another example would be Black Bloc and OWS. A subset within a larger good intentioned movement that brings down the larger groups message.

Just my 2 cents

 

[girzwald]

I'd say that "hating it" would be going a bit too far... But I don't think anyone should have to like it. I mean, I'm grateful that the pride-movement exist and remind certain people that they will never be able to oppress them back in the closet, but I don't actually like the culture very much.
But honestly, not every gay person does act like advertised. The vast majority are completly "normal", which is something that often fails to be mentioned. You don't morph into a rainbow-coloured stereotype the moment you come out.

So all in all, I wouldn't say it would be homophobic in the least to dislike the culture, at least the more irritating elements of it.

Yes, you in fact can. And in fact, most people are NOT homophobic.

The whole homophobic thing is been blown WAY out of proportion. Anything and everything that does not either 100% accept or praise homosexuality is deemed "homophobic".

I don't like homosexuality, I think its wrong. HOMOPHOBE!

I think gay pride parades have turned into disgusting displays of debauchery. HOMOPHOBE.

I think 2 dudes making out in public is a disgusting and unappealing sight. HOMOPHOBE.

It's all just political correctness and therefor bullying into accepting a lifestyle that most people don't approve of. They don't want tolerance. They already have that. No, they want acceptance. And bullying people into acceptance, when they already tolerate......only pushes more people away.

Perhaps. But I can't really see what it is that is so unthinkable to accept... Furthermore, what type of tolerance are we speaking of? "We will not outright kill and persecute you" or "We will grant you the same rights and treat you just like any regular citizens"? There is a difference there.

If I asked you a bunch of questions.......I'll bet I could find a bunch of people and lifestyles you do not accept, yet merely tolerate. And don't insult my intelligence by saying "I accept everyone". BS.

And besides marriage, which is debatable whether that's a "right" or not. Name a right gays are denied.

Certainly. Quite a few, and I can't remember saying that I accept everyone, myself. But I do tend to base what I accept and what I don't on merit beyond tradition or an initial sense of unease.

And to name one right that is often denied in several countries is the right to exist as a homosexual, where that is punishable with fines, prisontime or the death penalty in the more extreme cases.

Of course, that is (not anymore) not the case in most Western nations. But still, in many nations (and states, in the case of the U.S.) it is not possible to have a recognized relationship if it's same-sex. Now, this is not marriage, as I'm barred from taking that up.
And then, there is the question of adoption. Apparently, it makes all the difference in the world if a couple who wishes to adobt a child happen to be of the same sex.
And additionally, many countries don't have legislation against discrimination based on sexual orientation.

And that is the legal side of the matter. The fact remain that pressure is constantly put to revoke the rights that have already been secured, to say nothing of increasing them. And then, there is the simple issue that you can be beaten down (and possibly murdered) by a complete stranger because of your orientation.

Adoption is not a right.

And nice strawman, aside from fringe groups, there is no massive movement, hell or even ANY movement of any significance whatsoever that is trying to "revoke the rights" of gays in the US. Even groups like the westboro baptist church don't talk about taking away gays rights or killing them.

And yes, you were barred, yet mentioned anyway. Marriage or "having a recognized relationship" is debatable whether its a right or not. Since their is no federal documentation guaranteeing or prohibiting such things. Which is why you were barred.

So, did you have a right that gays were being denied or not?

 

[jpoon]

I can tolerate most gay people, the out and out flamers make me rage though, that type of "in your face" attitude is annoying as hell.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

God, I miss Cookie Monster. Why the hell did they made him out to be the Veggie Monster? If parents were so concerned that their kids would get fat by watching CM eating cookies, then they should not leave their kids in front of the television to watch Sesame Street and take them outside to get them to play something.

But I digress. The key word in this argument is 'hate.' Hate implies a deep distaste and anger towards something. Its not wrong to dislike something for whatever reason, but to hate something implies that you will act harshly to the subject/thing. I personally don't like strangers that get too close for comfort (which could be flamboyant homosexuals/individuals or clingy women). That doesn't mean that I keep a bad stigma towards gay people in general.

 

[Nemu]

I don't dig the gay culture and I'm a lesbian. *shrugs* I don't like "gay" music, I don't run out and see every movie made, or read every book. In fact, I ignore most of that stuff, just because it doesn't interest me, not because I hate the culture.

Re: "Flaunting" gayness (which should be a separate discussion from 'gay culture'):
The problem I see is if a man and woman kiss, most folks don't even notice, but because it's two men/women kissing, it's sometimes considered flaunting. Thankfully, with each generation, the separation of "gay" and "straight" seems to be narrowing, but you still find people who think that the slightest token of (gay) affection is too much.
Personally, I try not to pay attention to obnoxious and/or overly-affectionate people at all, gay or straight, because I just don't care to watch. :B

 

[WeAreStevo]

And nice strawman, aside from fringe groups, there is no massive movement, hell or even ANY movement of any significance whatsoever that is trying to "revoke the rights" of gays in the US. Even groups like the westboro baptist church don't talk about taking away gays rights or killing them.

And yes, you were barred, yet mentioned anyway. Marriage or "having a recognized relationship" is debatable whether its a right or not. Since their is no federal documentation guaranteeing or prohibiting such things. Which is why you were barred.

So, did you have a right that gays were being denied or not?

Umm...Gays ARE being denied the right to marry.

Look up Prop 8 in California. Look up other such movements to amend the constitution to make marriage "only between a man and a woman." Now try and tell me with a straight face that those are simply "straw man" arguments and that the people behind the bills (the Mormon church for Prop 8) aren't trying to "take away gay rights" (Fun fact: Gay marriage was legal in CA prior to Prop 8. Now, prop 8. "took away" the right to marry).

Also, there was a huge social acceptance of the barring of gays from gathering/being out and proud. Only in the last 20-30 years has it started to change, but there's still a ways to go.

So can I ask you a question. If only "fringe" groups are trying to deny the LGBT community rights, then would you consider the Baptist Church "fringe"? Mormon church? How about the Republican Party. They are trying to push through legislation barring the LGBT community from being allowed to marry.

And marriage is pretty damn import even if we only examine it from a monetary standpoint. There is a significant tax difference between what married couples pay vs. single people, not to mention that marriage should be about love and companionship, not religion and government bonuses.

 

[Crazy_Dude]

I am fine with gay people but those flamboyant heavily feminine gay guys are just plain annoying. Yes you are gay we get it, you don't have to make that clear every 5 seconds.

 

[Qitz]

Perhaps I am not being fair. I have not answered the OP's question. So I have not weighed in on what is homophobic and what isnt. I suppose in the way I think the OP is trying to describe it, it isnt.

I am still confused by the term "gay culture" and especially how it seems to embody everything people dont like about gays... This to me actually does seem homophobic. Perhaps if people just added the modifier "some" or "parts of". Tchiakovsky was gay so technically he is part of "gay culture". But he is not all of it.

Let me try some statements and people can decide if they sound fair...
I hate gamer culture because of the 13 yo trolls on xbox live.
I hate heterosexual culture because of football players/frat boys.
I hate French culture becuase of the snooty French people I have seen in the media.

As for your Yamaka statement I am confused, do you not tolerate wearing one yourself, or cant you not tolerate other people that wear one. If you cant tolerate other people wearing a Yamaka, FFS why not? Dont tell me you've never worn a piece of clothing that reflected your personal beliefs or views. Even if that statement is as simple as
"I like this team"
"I like this game"
"I'm pretty"
"I'm a preppy"
"I'm not a preppy"

Ok, that clears things up a bit. Your more upset about the pigeon holing people do of putting anything that seems Gay into Gay culture due to the ignorance of not knowing more about it or it not being a clearly defined as most other cultures due to it only being a focus of such a fast majority of the population recently.

For the Yamaka, that was used as a comparison. In that not tolerating something doesn't automatically equate to being phobic / hatred of it.

As for myself, I can tell you I've never worn clothing that reflected any beliefs because I have no spiritual alignment, I don't care enough about Religion or Spirituality to pick one. I've worn things that show imagery I like but I don't wear many symbol or band shirts.

 

[Blind Sight]

No problem with homosexuals whatsoever here, their business, not mine. But yes, I feel the same way. It is hard for me to deal with an 'out and proud' individual who uses their sexuality as their main defining characteristic. Bear in mind, I also have a problem with 'manly' men who talk about 'all the pussy I've tapped' or women who talk about how long some guy's dick is, etc. So I think it's more a matter of maintaining sexuality as a personal and private matter rather then telling the whole world about it. For me it more has to do with an individual's personality and what they base it on, rather then some broad condemnation of a sub-culture. Obviously I don't feel the need to control these people or anything, they're just people I'd rather not associate with. That's all.

And I'm the guy who hangs out with a transvestite. And he's awesome.

 

[girzwald]

snip

Please point to the document that says being able to marry is a right. Which is why I said beside that, name a right gays are being denied. But you conveniently ignored that part of what I said.

Also. Nice strawmen arguments.

Would I consider the westboro baptist church fringe? Uhh ya. Seeing how pretty much their entire "church" is made up of family members and almost nobody else. Thats pretty fringe.

The mormon church? You mean the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? They are fighting to deny gays rights? Musta missed that one. Source? Wont hold my breath.

And the biggest strawman.......the republican party. OOOOOO BOOGYMAN!!!!!!!! Won't dignify the ridiculousness of this statement.

 

[mionic]

"Homophobic" is the wrong word, but it doesn't matter, as I don't see any problem with hating the, as you put it "In your face attitude". Though, one must be careful about what's considered "In your face attitude", like, a guy is kissing his boyfriend in public should not be considered such, if heterosexual pairs kissing each others in public isn't. Really, why must one think at all about what "Sexuality" one is anyway? Can't we just be "Oh, I like Guys" or "Oh, I like Girls"? Damnit, why even think about "Prefering" a gender, rather than individuals at all? That's how I'd prefer everyone saw it.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

No, not as much as embracing gay culture makes you "gay." I used to be a part of the anti-sex (for all) brigade, but I'm so bored by life by now that the more people talk about it, the more I like it. The stranger the better. If it were up to me, public nudity would be legal.

 

[adafuns]

I'd say that "hating it" would be going a bit too far... But I don't think anyone should have to like it. I mean, I'm grateful that the pride-movement exist and remind certain people that they will never be able to oppress them back in the closet, but I don't actually like the culture very much.
But honestly, not every gay person does act like advertised. The vast majority are completly "normal", which is something that often fails to be mentioned. You don't morph into a rainbow-coloured stereotype the moment you come out.

So all in all, I wouldn't say it would be homophobic in the least to dislike the culture, at least the more irritating elements of it.

Yes, you in fact can. And in fact, most people are NOT homophobic.

The whole homophobic thing is been blown WAY out of proportion. Anything and everything that does not either 100% accept or praise homosexuality is deemed "homophobic".

I don't like homosexuality, I think its wrong. HOMOPHOBE!

I think gay pride parades have turned into disgusting displays of debauchery. HOMOPHOBE.

I think 2 dudes making out in public is a disgusting and unappealing sight. HOMOPHOBE.

It's all just political correctness and therefor bullying into accepting a lifestyle that most people don't approve of. They don't want tolerance. They already have that. No, they want acceptance. And bullying people into acceptance, when they already tolerate......only pushes more people away.

Perhaps. But I can't really see what it is that is so unthinkable to accept... Furthermore, what type of tolerance are we speaking of? "We will not outright kill and persecute you" or "We will grant you the same rights and treat you just like any regular citizens"? There is a difference there.

If I asked you a bunch of questions.......I'll bet I could find a bunch of people and lifestyles you do not accept, yet merely tolerate. And don't insult my intelligence by saying "I accept everyone". BS.

And besides marriage, which is debatable whether that's a "right" or not. Name a right gays are denied.

Certainly. Quite a few, and I can't remember saying that I accept everyone, myself. But I do tend to base what I accept and what I don't on merit beyond tradition or an initial sense of unease.

And to name one right that is often denied in several countries is the right to exist as a homosexual, where that is punishable with fines, prisontime or the death penalty in the more extreme cases.

Of course, that is (not anymore) not the case in most Western nations. But still, in many nations (and states, in the case of the U.S.) it is not possible to have a recognized relationship if it's same-sex. Now, this is not marriage, as I'm barred from taking that up.
And then, there is the question of adoption. Apparently, it makes all the difference in the world if a couple who wishes to adobt a child happen to be of the same sex.
And additionally, many countries don't have legislation against discrimination based on sexual orientation.

And that is the legal side of the matter. The fact remain that pressure is constantly put to revoke the rights that have already been secured, to say nothing of increasing them. And then, there is the simple issue that you can be beaten down (and possibly murdered) by a complete stranger because of your orientation.

Adoption is not a right.

And nice strawman, aside from fringe groups, there is no massive movement, hell or even ANY movement of any significance whatsoever that is trying to "revoke the rights" of gays in the US. Even groups like the westboro baptist church don't talk about taking away gays rights or killing them.

And yes, you were barred, yet mentioned anyway. Marriage or "having a recognized relationship" is debatable whether its a right or not. Since their is no federal documentation guaranteeing or prohibiting such things. Which is why you were barred.

So, did you have a right that gays were being denied or not?

You sound just like those jackasses who were opposed to interracial marriage all those years ago. Some things never change I guess. And while you are right that adoption and marriage being a right is debatable, do you want to know what is a right? How about the right to not be discriminated? How about the whole "...created equal" thing? Right now gays are being discriminated against simply because they choose to be a certain way, and if you cannot accept that then congratulations on being an idiot. There are actually laws in some states in the USA which makes it OK for gays to be bullied and ridiculed. The most obvious example is that law in Michigan which makes it OK to bully homosexuals if you also happen to be Christian. If you do not know about these things then I think its high time to step out of that privileged bubble enveloping around you and open your eyes.

Edit: forgot to add, maybe you should learn what a straw-man actually is. Its an informal fallacy, and logical fallacies are replacements of an arguments, not additive to one. So no those are not straw-mans you idiot. In fact, the way you invoked the straw-man fallacies is in itself a straw-man. How about bringing a real argument on why it is OK for homosexuals to be discriminated against when it comes to marriage, adoption or anything else? After all you have said that there are no rights being denied so I guess free of discrimination is not a right according to you. What document can you provide me that it is OK to discriminate when it comes to marriage? Can I provide a document which says marriage and adoption should be free of discrimination? Oh yes I can it is THE US CONSTITUTION, and just like it was used to defend interracial marriage, the same can be applied to homosexuals.

On-topic: Yes those overly flaming homosexuals are annoying, but are a by product of an important movement, and thus a necessary evil I guess you can say. Just like when blacks fought against discrimination there were some overly assertive black people, and just like when women in general fought against discrimination there were what you would call Fem-Nazis. Going by the trends of other movements before them I'd say the gay pride thing is working.

Also Ive read several people here comment on how "...I wouldn't flaunt my heterosexuality and make parades and stuff.." (paraphrased, obviously), and to this I say: Really? Of course you wouldn't flaunt it, you don't have to since its ALREADY ACCEPTED. Your way of life is the norm and no one is going to discriminate against you for it so you do not feel the need to express a sort of pride for it. I bet you anything if the tables would turn you would be right smack dab in the middle of hetero pride parades.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Please point to the document that says being able to marry is a right. Which is why I said beside that, name a right gays are being denied. But you conveniently ignored that part of what I said.

Also. Nice strawmen arguments.

Would I consider the westboro baptist church fringe? Uhh ya. Seeing how pretty much their entire "church" is made up of family members and almost nobody else. Thats pretty fringe.

The mormon church? You mean the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? They are fighting to deny gays rights? Musta missed that one. Source? Wont hold my breath.

And the biggest strawman.......the republican party. OOOOOO BOOGYMAN!!!!!!!! Won't dignify the ridiculousness of this statement.

I'm not sure you can accuse someone of using a strawman and then come back with "OOOOO BOOGYMAN" in the same breath. I'm fairly certain the logical fallacy police take away your credentials for that.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

You can it would be silly like saying I am boycotting American culture, specifics help, its not who you are sleeping with but rather the frequency of partners that causes worries.

I'm I on the only one that sees a difference in using gay/fag negatively IE as in anti gay and then using the word as a negative but not being anti gay.

 

[Emperor Nat]

I find over-the-top campness and random flirting annoying, regardless of the person's actual sexuality. Likewise I find shallow air-head bitching annoying in women.

I am not homophobic, it's a simple personality clash.

 

[TheDooD]

Yea you can hate the person(s) yet not the culture. Most people don't want a blue oyster scene and or da flaming queen act tossed in their face all the time. I'm perfectly fine in having pride in yourself and the people to associate with yet when you're around people you normally don't hang with or in the general public it would be a nice thing to just tone it down a notch or two imo.