Poll: Daniel Tosh threatens Woman with Gang Rape

[Revnak_v1legacy]

I'm sorry, I find it hard to believe that numbers like that aren't bullshit. I'll accept that rape is certainly a more common crime than murder, but more common than getting mugged? Than having someone break into your home? Suuuuuure.

Here. [http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims] These [http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/rapestatistics.htm] links [http://thehathorlegacy.com/rape-statistics/] took [http://www.barcc.org/information/facts/stats/] me [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/health/nearly-1-in-5-women-in-us-survey-report-sexual-assault.html] about [http://www.911rape.org/facts-quotes/statistics] one minute to collect. I don't think I need to say anything more; I'll let you read them for yourself. Note the sources; feel free to check those if you doubt the validity.

now those numbers were compiled by teams of researchers whose job it is to do that work. If you have evidence to the contrary other than, say, wishful thinking, I'm sure we're all interested in hearing it.

If you don't, do your homework, and fix your face.

I opened the first link.

It claimed 1 in 6 American women have been raped.

It then claimed 17.7 million American women have been raped.

17.7 million multiplied by six equals 106.2 million.

That's about 60 million women short of the total women in America.

Otherwise known as being off by over 33%.

Otherwise known as being a completely unreliable source.

Like I said, I can pull bullshit sensationalist statistics out of my ass, too. I'll do it if you really want me to (not because I believe them, but to prove my point if you're really so blind as to miss the purpose of this post). But honestly? Read your bullshit sensationalist statistics first, to make sure they hold up to basic mathematics.

Especially before you tell me to do my homework.

Hi. Here's the source [http://www.nij.gov/about/welcome.htm] of the information:

The direct link to the National Institute of Justice study [https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/172837.txt]. They are from the US Department of Justice so if you're looking for something more credible, you're welcome to go through it.

According to the study, 18% of women are the victims of sexual assault. That's about 1 in 5.

If you think they're wrong, go ahead and call them up. They spent your tax dollars to conduct the study. Play math games with them; it's their job to research these things. I'm just giving you the tools.

Or you can continue to think that you, Drago-Morph of the Escapist Forums, know something that people dedicated to this field don't. I wish you the best of luck.

The original quote he said that it isn't likely to be raped described a certain circumstance. That a woman feared being raped by a complete stranger in the dead of night when a man came walking towards them. He said that isn't likely. Your information and statistics are correct but invalid because they account for all rape as a whole rather than the single circumstance he refuted. Date rape, Abusive relationships and molestation between family members is far more common than total anonymous and violent rape. You're using all rape as a whole to refute his point about a very specific kind of rape.

You know what, that's a fair point. Stranger-danger rape is actually the least common form. I somehow doubt his point was quite that nuanced, however, based on the context of his statement and the things he's said subsequently.

A fair point too, however this entire side discussion is largely irrelevant save for the common theme of rape regarding whether or not it's okay to joke about it. Which I am a firm believer that it is. Mostly because shutting down something as unacceptable where the only qualifier for being unacceptable is being offensive is a slippery slope.

When it comes to the idea of shutting down rape language, rape jokes, and the rest of that stuff, and why it's important for us to treat the word 'offense' with more respect, I cannot do better than this article right here. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/9766-The-R-Word]

If you get to the end of that article and still cannot understand why it's important, no power within me will be able to convince you.

I'm a rape victim and I use dark humor as a coping mechanism, specifically rape jokes. Certainly it's not healthy, but it's better than drinking myself to an early grave or many of the alternatives. Does that suddenly make rape jokes okay? Or just rape jokes by me? I didn't comment on that article because I felt that they had a certain amount of a point when it came to online games, as you can't really choose who you're playing with a lot of the time, but it seems odd to apply the same standards to comedians and darker media which can easily be avoided.

 

[Drago-Morph]

I'm sorry, I find it hard to believe that numbers like that aren't bullshit. I'll accept that rape is certainly a more common crime than murder, but more common than getting mugged? Than having someone break into your home? Suuuuuure.

Here. [http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims] These [http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/rapestatistics.htm] links [http://thehathorlegacy.com/rape-statistics/] took [http://www.barcc.org/information/facts/stats/] me [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/health/nearly-1-in-5-women-in-us-survey-report-sexual-assault.html] about [http://www.911rape.org/facts-quotes/statistics] one minute to collect. I don't think I need to say anything more; I'll let you read them for yourself. Note the sources; feel free to check those if you doubt the validity.

now those numbers were compiled by teams of researchers whose job it is to do that work. If you have evidence to the contrary other than, say, wishful thinking, I'm sure we're all interested in hearing it.

If you don't, do your homework, and fix your face.

I opened the first link.

It claimed 1 in 6 American women have been raped.

It then claimed 17.7 million American women have been raped.

17.7 million multiplied by six equals 106.2 million.

That's about 60 million women short of the total women in America.

Otherwise known as being off by over 33%.

Otherwise known as being a completely unreliable source.

Like I said, I can pull bullshit sensationalist statistics out of my ass, too. I'll do it if you really want me to (not because I believe them, but to prove my point if you're really so blind as to miss the purpose of this post). But honestly? Read your bullshit sensationalist statistics first, to make sure they hold up to basic mathematics.

Especially before you tell me to do my homework.

Hi. Here's the source [http://www.nij.gov/about/welcome.htm] of the information:

The direct link to the National Institute of Justice study [https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/172837.txt]. They are from the US Department of Justice so if you're looking for something more credible, you're welcome to go through it.

According to the study, 18% of women are the victims of sexual assault. That's about 1 in 5.

If you think they're wrong, go ahead and call them up. They spent your tax dollars to conduct the study. Play math games with them; it's their job to research these things. I'm just giving you the tools.

Or you can continue to think that you, Drago-Morph of the Escapist Forums, know something that people dedicated to this field don't. I wish you the best of luck.

I don't know anything besides that rape statistics are completely all over the place. For example, the U.S. government has far more than one rape study. As does the group you linked to there. Want to see a completely different study that bumps the number up to 1 in 4 and changes the statistics of who the rape victims are? Here. [http://www.crimevictimservices.org/page/sexassault/76] It also claims that 1 in 6 men are raped, as opposed to the 1 in 33 that I've been seeing from your source. That wasn't very hard.

And, of course, it's not like studies from different groups are all over the place. Not like they range from the multiple millions to the hundreds of thousands. Oh, wait- they do. A simple Wikipedia skimming told me that. Wasn't very hard, either.

My point is that when you look for a specific brand of results, you get those results. I don't give a damn who the studies come from, especially not as inconsistent source as the U.S. government. Of course, you've also completely ignored my original point that men can be victimized just as much as women. So, you've managed to fail on two accounts in understanding simple discussion. You've managed to trivialize my original statement and make a fool of yourself by throwing around unreliable statistics to try and prove that . . . what? What was the point of arguing with me? I honestly don't know what you wanted to say.

But you have managed to say that you have no idea what you're talking about and that you're out for blood in this thread. I've made my point and discovered that you don't have a leg to stand on here.

I'm done.

 

[him over there]

I'm sorry, I find it hard to believe that numbers like that aren't bullshit. I'll accept that rape is certainly a more common crime than murder, but more common than getting mugged? Than having someone break into your home? Suuuuuure.

Here. [http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims] These [http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/rapestatistics.htm] links [http://thehathorlegacy.com/rape-statistics/] took [http://www.barcc.org/information/facts/stats/] me [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/health/nearly-1-in-5-women-in-us-survey-report-sexual-assault.html] about [http://www.911rape.org/facts-quotes/statistics] one minute to collect. I don't think I need to say anything more; I'll let you read them for yourself. Note the sources; feel free to check those if you doubt the validity.

now those numbers were compiled by teams of researchers whose job it is to do that work. If you have evidence to the contrary other than, say, wishful thinking, I'm sure we're all interested in hearing it.

If you don't, do your homework, and fix your face.

I opened the first link.

It claimed 1 in 6 American women have been raped.

It then claimed 17.7 million American women have been raped.

17.7 million multiplied by six equals 106.2 million.

That's about 60 million women short of the total women in America.

Otherwise known as being off by over 33%.

Otherwise known as being a completely unreliable source.

Like I said, I can pull bullshit sensationalist statistics out of my ass, too. I'll do it if you really want me to (not because I believe them, but to prove my point if you're really so blind as to miss the purpose of this post). But honestly? Read your bullshit sensationalist statistics first, to make sure they hold up to basic mathematics.

Especially before you tell me to do my homework.

Hi. Here's the source [http://www.nij.gov/about/welcome.htm] of the information:

The direct link to the National Institute of Justice study [https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/172837.txt]. They are from the US Department of Justice so if you're looking for something more credible, you're welcome to go through it.

According to the study, 18% of women are the victims of sexual assault. That's about 1 in 5.

If you think they're wrong, go ahead and call them up. They spent your tax dollars to conduct the study. Play math games with them; it's their job to research these things. I'm just giving you the tools.

Or you can continue to think that you, Drago-Morph of the Escapist Forums, know something that people dedicated to this field don't. I wish you the best of luck.

The original quote he said that it isn't likely to be raped described a certain circumstance. That a woman feared being raped by a complete stranger in the dead of night when a man came walking towards them. He said that isn't likely. Your information and statistics are correct but invalid because they account for all rape as a whole rather than the single circumstance he refuted. Date rape, Abusive relationships and molestation between family members is far more common than total anonymous and violent rape. You're using all rape as a whole to refute his point about a very specific kind of rape.

You know what, that's a fair point. Stranger-danger rape is actually the least common form. I somehow doubt his point was quite that nuanced, however, based on the context of his statement and the things he's said subsequently.

A fair point too, however this entire side discussion is largely irrelevant save for the common theme of rape regarding whether or not it's okay to joke about it. Which I am a firm believer that it is. Mostly because shutting down something as unacceptable where the only qualifier for being unacceptable is being offensive is a slippery slope.

When it comes to the idea of shutting down rape language, rape jokes, and the rest of that stuff, and why it's important for us to treat the word 'offense' with more respect, I cannot do better than this article right here. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/9766-The-R-Word]

If you get to the end of that article and still cannot understand why it's important, no power within me will be able to convince you.

My problem is that rape is no worse than murder or torture and that is fair game so rape is no different. Yes rape is horrible however anything can be funny so long as it is executed properly. Dark comedy uses many different techniques to create reactions such as subverting expectations, creating stark contrast between reaction and delivery, detachment from reality, hyperbole and of course plain old shock.

Rape is offensive to plenty of people, mainly victims. However totally shutting it down on the sole premise it's offensive and insensitive isn't the fair or right thing to do.

 

[RoBi3.0]

Daniel Tosh is just a far less talented and intelligent version of George Carlin. Ignore him and he will go away, all that these people are doing is giving him free advertisement.

He is also far less dead at the moment, so too each their own I guess?

I fail to see how George Carlin's demise has any relevance to my comparison? Are you saying that because George Carlin is dead, I should watch Tosh?

Not really saying that at all, I just wanted to hop on the comparison wagon in favor of Tosh. Devils Advocate you know?

I think we can both agree that my comparison is fair as it is based more on fact and less on opinion then yours.

 

[itsthesheppy]

My problem is that rape is no worse than murder or torture and that is fair game so rape is no different. Yes rape is horrible however anything can be funny so long as it is executed properly. Dark comedy uses many different techniques to create reactions such as subverting expectations, creating stark contrast between reaction and delivery, detachment from reality, hyperbole and of course plain old shock.

Rape is offensive to plenty of people, mainly victims. However totally shutting it down on the sole premise it's offensive and insensitive isn't the fair or right thing to do.

Like I said before. If you read the entire article, got to the end of it, and still don't see why rape jokes and rape language should go away, then there is no point in talking to me about it because I fundamentally disagree with you and nothing I say is going to make a difference; I don't really think there is a way for me to make an appeal to your sense of empathy stronger than what's in that article.

I'm a rape victim and I use dark humor as a coping mechanism, specifically rape jokes. Certainly it's not healthy, but it's better than drinking myself to an early grave or many of the alternatives. Does that suddenly make rape jokes okay? Or just rape jokes by me? I didn't comment on that article because I felt that they had a certain amount of a point when it came to online games, as you can't really choose who you're playing with a lot of the time, but it seems odd to apply the same standards to comedians and darker media which can easily be avoided.

If that is your coping mechanism, then I welcome you to explore it to the fullest potential it has to help you heal. However, you must understand that not everyone copes like you do, and for some people, it has the opposite effect; it's like, if healing your broken arm is done through kicking it, that doesn't mean you should walk around kicking other people's broken arms on the off chance it works for them to.

 

[The Human Torch]

Not really saying that at all, I just wanted to hop on the comparison wagon in favor of Tosh. Devils Advocate you know?

I think we can both agree that my comparison is fair as it is based more on fact and less on opinion then yours.

How come your opinion of Tosh is fact, while my opinion is 'just' opinion. Yes, George Carlin is dead, that doesn't make your positive opinion of Tosh fact.
The only reason I made the comparison, is that both comedians use(d) very controversial topics in their shows and have a dark sense of humor. To me, Tosh is just a not so good version of George Carlin.

 

[Fappy]

Someone should set up a popcorn stand in this thread. I have an extra lawn chair if someone wants it.

The flames are getting HOT!

 

[him over there]

My problem is that rape is no worse than murder or torture and that is fair game so rape is no different. Yes rape is horrible however anything can be funny so long as it is executed properly. Dark comedy uses many different techniques to create reactions such as subverting expectations, creating stark contrast between reaction and delivery, detachment from reality, hyperbole and of course plain old shock.

Rape is offensive to plenty of people, mainly victims. However totally shutting it down on the sole premise it's offensive and insensitive isn't the fair or right thing to do.

Like I said before. If you read the entire article, got to the end of it, and still don't see why rape jokes and rape language should go away, then there is no point in talking to me about it because I fundamentally disagree with you and nothing I say is going to make a difference; I don't really think there is a way for me to make an appeal to your sense of empathy stronger than what's in that article.

Considering that this is a fundamental disagreement I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I simply don't think it is society's responsibility to omit all humour or language regarding rape for the sake of a sensitive victim so much as it is the victim's responsibility to adapt to and cope with society.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

I'm a rape victim and I use dark humor as a coping mechanism, specifically rape jokes. Certainly it's not healthy, but it's better than drinking myself to an early grave or many of the alternatives. Does that suddenly make rape jokes okay? Or just rape jokes by me? I didn't comment on that article because I felt that they had a certain amount of a point when it came to online games, as you can't really choose who you're playing with a lot of the time, but it seems odd to apply the same standards to comedians and darker media which can easily be avoided.

If that is your coping mechanism, then I welcome you to explore it to the fullest potential it has to help you heal. However, you must understand that not everyone copes like you do, and for some people, it has the opposite effect; it's like, if healing your broken arm is done through kicking it, that doesn't mean you should walk around kicking other people's broken arms on the off chance it works for them to.

Ah, so his personal experience can be used to set a wide precedent for how rape should be handled in any public manner while mine can only apply to myself personally. If I were a more selfish man I would suggest it should be the other way around. As I am a more selfish man, I demand that we all make more rape jokes. I demand that every post in the rest of this thread be accompanied by a rape joke, as it is only the least you can do to help me deal with my issues. All this direct confrontation of the issue is making me dizzy (which is true, if I have a trigger it's probably taking rape seriously) and more humor should calm me down. Or I could just find them myself or make them myself to calm myself down, just like other victims can try to avoid things they know will upset them. Tosh makes rape jokes, people who get triggered by that should avoid him, while I should make certain to watch more of his stuff when I'm feeling a bit down in the dumps about the whole penis having been in my ass thing.

 

[Ashannon Blackthorn]

Haha, I'm sorry, what?

You're equating me, in severity, with people who defend rape, because I'm snarky to someone who is so dedicated to being wrong that he's rolling his eyes at statistics that frankly children should know?

Man. Can you imagine if I'd attacked him with irony? I mean sarcasm is bad, but what if I hit him with... metaphor? I could be arrested for a hate crime.

Fact: Anywhere between 1 in 4 to 1 in 7 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Something like 80%+ cases go unreported, because people like yourself trivialize the situation and make it seem like people who stand up for rape victims are unwanted, that turning rape into a joke is a-okay, and so forth. It's where we get the myth that rape victims are lying (that only happens in 3% of cases; you'd think it was 93% if you listened to the internet); its where we get a culture that blames women for dressing slutty if they get attacked, and on and on.

There's been about a hundred threads about this and frankly it's just sad. the information is out there. You can read it or not; but if you don't and then come in here saying things that are patently untrue and passing yourself off as an authority, I'm going to be snarky, sarcastic and, perish the thought, ironic to you, and I don't care of the politeness police come after me. COME AT ME, BRO.

You heard me. You're just as fucking bad.

Then you and I are operating under a different definition of who a bad person is, and frankly I'd be more interested in reaching common ground with you on it if you were a more interesting person to talk to. So that's that. Cheers.

So I was right eh? "I'm not worth it"

I'd actually like to meet commmon ground. SO here. I asked for non biased proof. I'll provide it.

http://www.dvrc-or.org/domestic/violence/resources/C61/

Now the important bit. Scroll down to see where this site got it's information. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, U.S. Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Now, with this, I agree with your numbers. Now, can you justify where it's rigth to actively censor a comedian for joking about such a topic, even with ironclad proof that's it's a lot more common than most people are comfortable with? I'll leave that for you to answer. I look forward to your reply.

I accept your olive branch and would love to return to the conversation. I have a very hard time communicating with people who will not at least agree that the apple we're both looking at is the same color. Thanks for the link; it's very comprehensive and supports findings I've seen elsewhere. Now to respond:

I never suggested he should be censored. He should be allowed to say whatever he likes, as long as he's willing to accept the consequences of the things he says. He was publicly pilloried and issues a (weak) apology. Not amazing, but it's there.

I don't mind living in a society where if you tell a woman you think it might be funny if she were gang-raped, that people will come out against you. That, to me, is a society where the white blood cells are nice and strong, and slowly getting stronger. Maybe eventually we'll live in a society where it won't occur to someone to make a heeeeeeelarious joke about a specific woman being gang-raped. I don't feel like we'll have lost much.

So to summarize, I am against censoring. You're allowed to say whatever you like, as long as you accept the consequences if the boos start rolling in. you can shout over them if you want; that's your choice to make. but I'm perfectly happy being one of the boo-ers.

So if we both against censoring why we arguing in the first place? Did I get you confused with someone else? **grumble** Nothing ruins a good rant like relaizing you were ranting against the wrong people.

 

[Yomandude]

...are we even talking about Tosh anymore?

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

...are we even talking about Tosh anymore?

I'm mostly talking about typos, but I did in my last post.

 

[Fappy]

My problem is that rape is no worse than murder or torture and that is fair game so rape is no different. Yes rape is horrible however anything can be funny so long as it is executed properly. Dark comedy uses many different techniques to create reactions such as subverting expectations, creating stark contrast between reaction and delivery, detachment from reality, hyperbole and of course plain old shock.

Rape is offensive to plenty of people, mainly victims. However totally shutting it down on the sole premise it's offensive and insensitive isn't the fair or right thing to do.

Like I said before. If you read the entire article, got to the end of it, and still don't see why rape jokes and rape language should go away, then there is no point in talking to me about it because I fundamentally disagree with you and nothing I say is going to make a difference; I don't really think there is a way for me to make an appeal to your sense of empathy stronger than what's in that article.

Considering that this is a fundamental disagreement I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I simply don't think it is society's responsibility to omit all humour or language regarding rape for the sake of a sensitive victim so much as it is the victim's responsibility to adapt to and cope with society.

An unfortunate truth. As someone who studied journalism in college its almost impossible for me to nay-say the First Amendment... which would cry if it read this thread.

 

[Fappy]

Someone should set up a popcorn stand in this thread. I have an extra lawn chair if someone wants it.

The flames are getting HOT!

I'll take that chair. I love "Look at my statistics/studies" "No, look at MY statistics/studies" conversations.

Also OP is a joke. Badly misleading title, no context, bias story, and shithouse poll.

Lol, I suppose that is one way of describing the poll

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

Is rape acceptable to joke about? Well it depends.

 

[RoBi3.0]

Not really saying that at all, I just wanted to hop on the comparison wagon in favor of Tosh. Devils Advocate you know?

I think we can both agree that my comparison is fair as it is based more on fact and less on opinion then yours.

How come your opinion of Tosh is fact, while my opinion is 'just' opinion. Yes, George Carlin is dead, that doesn't make your positive opinion of Tosh fact.
The only reason I made the comparison, is that both comedians use(d) very controversial topics in their shows and have a dark sense of humor. To me, Tosh is just a not so good version of George Carlin.

I honestly never really presented any opinions about Tosh. I only presented the fact that he was currently alive as a positive in his favor. He is alive that is a fact. I guess you could argue that being alive is not a positive thing, but I would have a hard taking you seriously. Unless you are a Zombie

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

He's a comedian and it's his show, if u really don't like it make a bigger statement by walking out not heckling. He is a dark entertainer that I myself find funny, if u don't like his comedy then don't listen to it.I personally find jokes about murder more disturbing than rape.