Poll: Dark Souls: Time to Put Up or Shut Up.

[Headdrivehardscrew]

So, it's that time of the month again.

People want to change Dark Souls. I say NAY! NEVER! and I don't intend to go for any elitism or any such thing. Hell, I was amongst those that never intended to get Demon's Souls (or Dark Souls) because I was - due to reporting and teh interwebz - absolutely certain that those Souls games were a bad, bad joke. Instadeath, permadeath, unfair enemies, insurmountable, giant foes, losing everything upon death, getting punished and pummelled and laughed at by demonic and undead hordes - that didn't exactly sound like a fun experience to me.

However, once I started playing and experiencing and learning, I couldn't stop. To be honest, Dark Souls is the one game I still play pretty much whenever I feel like it. I find it to be fun, zen and there's still new stuff to figure out. At the moment, I am working on perfecting my parrying skills with Queelag's Furysword in my left hand. It's just too sexy to not give it a spin... and a whirl... and a neat little shoulder with some attitude.

And yet - people think just plain enjoying the game is 'elitism'.

So, I guess, it's 'elitism' vs. 'entitlement' - entitlement to have anything changed, even before one makes the effort to figure something out. It's a shame.

So, what's your stance?

EDIT: Ah, my mistake - question should read:

Do you think that Dark Souls should be changed to offer an easy mode?

 

[Casual Shinji]

Oh dear, look what you gone and done... You poked the gelatinous mass, just when it had finally subsided into the depths.

My stance is right there by the emergency exit. Watch me go.

 

[Rawne1980]

Personally I don't care if they do or don't.

I've already blown through Dark Souls twice and found it pretty easy (NG+, people said it was harder ... they lied)....

If they put in an easy mode the "hard" mode will still be there.

Plus, I hear companies like to make money .. I know, I know, they should do it out of love and feed their children on the praise of the players. How rude of them to want actually payment .. And if offering an easy mode makes them more money then go for it.

 

[krazykidd]

Personally I don't care if they do or don't.

I've already blown through Dark Souls twice and found it pretty easy (NG+, people said it was harder ... they lied)....

If they put in an easy mode the "hard" mode will still be there.

Plus, I hear companies like to make money .. I know, I know, they should do it out of love and feed their children on the praise of the players. How rude of them to want actually payment .. And if offering an easy mode makes them more money then go for it.

No no no ! If they put an easy mode , the have to put the normal (regular dark souls difficulty mode ) and an even harder hard mode . It's the only way .

OT: i choose elitism , if you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen . Honestly , i want to meet the guy , that hears dark souls is hard ( because it was marketed as such ) , buys it anyways , then complains it's too hard , and punch him in the face . YOU KNEW WHAT YOU WERE GETTING INTO !

 

[shrekfan246]

I want to know why the reputation these games have has been blown so far out of proportion, and it seems more frequently that the people who refuse to play it are the ones perpetuating the reputation in the first place.

Sure, compared to its contemporaries, Dark Souls is a "hard" game, but it's not really a hard game. It's not difficult in the same way that Devil May Cry 3 is with damage-sponge cannon-fodder enemies that shave off half your health with a single hit, it's just challenging because you need timing, you need awareness, and you need knowledge of your limits. Practically everything, player and monster alike, dies relatively quickly with the notable exception of certain special enemies and bosses, neither of which will respawn. Successfully navigating the terrain just comes down to knowing your environment, knowing the pull range of enemies, and being able to effectively read them. There are certain sections that are just straight difficult to overcome (looking at you, Stone Guardians in the DLC area), but nothing about it is patently unfair. Except those Silver Knight archers.

Would I mind if they implement a mode that reduces the damage enemies deal/raises the damage the player deals? As long as it had no effect on a "normal" Dark Souls mode, then no. If the entire theory behind their world design is torn asunder to make it more straight-forward and simplistic in an effort of becoming "easier", then yes, I would be disheartened.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Personally I think they should make it harder. Only 1 HP, start the game naked, and if you die the game bricks your machine.

This would appeal to a small niche audience who are tired of not being catered to. Anyone who wants an easier game can play one of the many other options out there.

#totallynotelitist

 

[xefaros]

The enemies wasnt difficult to begin with.If adding an easy mode meant change on the mechanics,level design,Bosses and the learning curve then i would have to say NO.

 

[DementedSheep]

Enjoying darksouls does not make you elitist, who even saying that? The people getting called elitist are the ones freaking out over an option.
I don't care if they add one or not but an easy mode doesn't have to change anything. If they design the game around the difficulty they want and then tweek some shit like enemy damage, how easy staggered you and they are, the amount of souls dropped on death, maybe remove an enemy or two here and there, etc to make a easy mode (and before someone say ?oh but then people will still fall off shit and die?, easy doesn't mean impossible to die on) it won?t affect the standard. The only thing it might possibly affect is the multiplayer. If they segregate easy mode and normal mode players you might get a smaller pool to work with.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I feel I've made my position on the subject known in a number of other threads. Suffice it to say, I believe the game is not hard but rather designed to make the learning process tedious. I also tend to hold the belief that the strong argument against the inclusion of an easy mode to such a game without the loss of the difficult mode that current fans love demonstrates a fundamental desire to withhold any democratization of the title and, were I to venture a guess as to why, it is because a great number of them do, in fact, hold their play of the game as a mark of elitism.

 

[Bashfluff]

I think it would ruin the identity of the game. You have a lot of games with "hard" modes, where you can make things hard on yourself by changing the pre-existing rules to modify difficulty. But we don't have many games that are just plain hard, and Dark Souls is one of them. It's not as big a deal to beat a game with an easy mode because, "Hey, I beat X game on hard," just sounds a little douchey to me. But if you beat a hard game, like I Wanna Be the Guy, you get respect, because those games have an identity that is focused around difficulty, whereas other games have a more, "Start where you feel comfortable and then work your way up to harder modes for extra challenge". It feels like it takes all of the focus and structure out of the identity to the detriment of the game.

 

[Pink Gregory]

Wasn't this whole easy mode thing, like, not even confirmed for DSII?

 

[Maximum Bert]

Personally I think they should make it harder. Only 1 HP, start the game naked, and if you die the game bricks your machine.

This would appeal to a small niche audience who are tired of not being catered to. Anyone who wants an easier game can play one of the many other options out there.

#totallynotelitist

Dosent go far enough in my opinion if you die I think someone should come around your house and kill you and everyone you ever cared about for sucking hard at a game. Its easy for people to just go and buy a new machine real gamers game with their life.

#totallymyopinion

Otherwise I dont care if they put in an easy mode as long as its implemented well, the game(s) isnt that hard really it punishes recklessness not lack of skills as its not a heavily skill based game (you just have to be aware of whats going on) but say if the easy mode was that you just get to keep all your souls on death or something like that I see no problem with it

 

[StriderShinryu]

No. I don't believe it should. The challenge is a large part of the experience and, in fact, there actually are already numerous ways in game to counter the difficulty. Just as with every other art/entertainment genre, not every piece of media needs to be enjoyed by everyone and if the developers at From decided that Demons Souls and Dark Souls were games for a niche audience then there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make it better or worse, and it doesn't make the people who enjoy it better or worse, it just means they like something different. And that's okay.

That said, it does sound like they may be going in a different direction with Souls 2 being that they basically canned the previous director. Maybe the future Souls games will be more open and inviting. Maybe they will have modal difficulty selection instead of the already existing organic difficulty selection. I can't say I'm happy with that but it's not a choice thats in my hands.

 

[Nomanslander]

Oh dear, look what you gone and done... You poked the gelatinous mass, just when it had finally subsided into the depths.

My stance is right there by the emergency exit. Watch me go.

My thoughts exactly.

Why is this issuing being brought up... again? The only thing I've seen come out of it is the ugly side of gamers, and the distaste they may share for each other.

=/

 

[ShinyCharizard]

What's up with the 30 million difficulty threads today. Can't say I understand the fuss. All you have to do is not select easy mode. There problem solved, you can thank me now.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I've said all this exhaustively before, so I'll be brief, maybe.

There are already systems in the game to help the player. The Orange Soapstone, summons (player or NPC) which are plentiful, and many players equip above their level to help new players, the ability to play online, offline, in human or hollow form basically throws out any notion that invaders are a problem, not to mention the Black Seperation Crystal, upgrading weapons is an easy way to become powerful fast, the Drake Sword is an easy first weapon if you need it, the game supplies Gold Pine Resin and Black Firebombs early in the game and most people's first boss after the Asylum (the Taurus Demon) has a blatant plunging attack opportunity, etc.

Secondly, the game's difficulty is inherent in everything it does, and is there for a reason. An easy mode which only reduces the difficulty of combat in PvE would not be ideal because nothing else is presented on a platter and it would make for a short and boring game. With no real story, the bulk of the lore is obtained from item descriptions and conjecture. It would also take away the immense satisfaction (which, by the way, is enough reason to leave the game unchanged by itself) that comes from defeating a boss. In short, the game is designed with thorough, intuitive players in mind, and to cater to those who aren't willing to put in the effort in one aspect would just make the game confusing. The only thing I can see coming from an easy mode is an all-around making the game more straightforward. Which is basically what we've seen happen in most other series' and it almost goes without saying, that would be a bad thing for fans of the first two games.

Lastly, the lessons and message of Dark Souls require a challenging and inspired game. It aims to force the player to use their intuition and try different things, to pay attention to NPCs, to try and make sense of what is happening. If you don't want that experience then you shouldn't be playing Dark Souls.

There's no elitism about it. There is just those who put in the time and effort and those who would rather see the product cater to them than the other way around. I'm not better than another person because I play Dark Souls. But nor are they entitled to play Dark Souls at my expense. And quite frankly if you can't get through the game with the plentiful co-op summons, excellent, helpful, knowledgable community, so much of the playerbase willing to give their time to help YOU, then play another game.

May this be the last we see of the topic, please.

 

[Zhukov]

It's rather entitled to demand that the game change just for you.

And demanding that a game never change just for you isn't?

Thing is, nobody is really demanding a change. A rumour started that there was going to be a change (and an optional one at that) and a sizable segment of the fanbase spat their dummies and thew a tantrum at the prospect of others potentially being able to join their exclusive little club.

 

[thethird0611]

Whats great is this whole controversy started off with a mis-translation of what the main guy at From Soft said. He was saying he was hoping to find someway to guide people through the game easier, like extra little messages or small things that directed the player, not that they should add a different difficulty. (I didnt find this out, I took it from Epicnamebro, which ill post his video here. He's one of the main heads in the DaS community).

Anyway, ill finally put my views down about this easy mode.

1. The game isnt actually as hard as people make it seem. The few things that usually make it hard are people not understanding what to o to work the mechanics of the game. (i.e. upgrading weapons, moving slowly, direction). This isnt to say its hard to get into the game, but that is a game design flaw. When I started my first playthrough, I quit cus I got stuck with the skeletons. I finally came back after doing just a little bit of research and talking to the community, and BAM, its much easier.

2. There really is no way to effectively incorporate an easy mode without ruining the game, not just for those who play on hard, but also for the new players who want an easy mode.
Have you actually thought about how long the game would be if everything was easy? You would finish it in less than 10 hours, just by nurfing stats.
The only effective way to make the game easier would be to nerf the stats of the enemies and to change the enviroment to be less lethal. I know that since I know most of the mechanics now, most of the time is the enviorment mechanics that I am not paying attention to that get me killed.
Nerfing the stats of the enemies also makes the game less rewarding. My first kill of Capra would be as -near- as amazing if I wasnt facing the normal Capra, and that would take a BIG part of the game away. This game is about those moments where you just sit back, smile, and take a sip of your drink as you stand of the grave of the boss you just beat.
There is no effective way to cross Easy/Hard modes on online. Its already hard enough to find invasions in some areas of the game, and your thinking of cutting that even more, no. Also, you cant cross the difficulties because one person who got Gwyndolins set on the normal difficulty is going to be pissed that someone on easy went and 3 Gwyndolin with an unupgraded longsword. Thats where you hurt the old players.

3. Dark Souls already has -many- mechanics to make it easier. Player Phantoms, offline mode, Way of the White. There is also no effective way of changing the death mechanics to. Have you actually thought of what you lose in death? 1 humanity if your human, everything else can be retrieved. What do you lose if you dont retrieve it? Lose souls (which can be spent at a bonfire/blacksmith before you go on a hard area), and any lose humanity. -Nothing else-.

But yeah, thats all im pretty much gonna say here, I dont like to type to much, it just got away from me XD.

Honestly, I agree with ENB on this. This video explains perfectly why there shouldnt be an easy mode, and he is extremely respectful to the people on the other side of the debate. Its a great watch either way. The first half is very abstract reasons why, but the second half explains it pertaining to the mechanics of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b91BWzLigs

 

[BloatedGuppy]

There really is no way to effectively incorporate an easy mode without ruining the game, not just for those who play on hard, but also for the new players who want an easy mode.

Just add an offline mode with save/load enabled. And puff up the main character's stats a little to allow for a larger margin of error in combat. Poof. Easy mode.

I totally understand the arguments against an "easy mode" in Dark Souls, and I even agree with a couple of them (although I'm ambivalent about the subject in the entire), but this persistent fantasy that adding an easy mode would be "impossible", or "would destroy the mechanics of the game" or "would drain developer resources" is just silly. It would be so, so, so easy to add an easy mode, if adding an easy mode was indeed something they wanted to do. Whether that mode would be particularly rewarding to people who are accustomed to playing on normal is utterly irrelevant, since they wouldn't use it.

Mind summing up the ENB video for me? I went to check it out but at 40 minutes it's way past my threshold.