Poll: Do you find strip clubs misogynistic?

[Thaluikhain]

Well you can't really have it just one way. If your someone that considers female strip clubs mysogonistic, then you pretty much have to concede that male strip clubs are misandrist. Their literally the same thing.

Assuming that they are literally the same thing, yes. The way our society deals with both of them tends to be very different, however.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

I don´t think a lot of people here go to strip clubs, the notion that it exploits sexually frustrated men seems like a pretty extreme conclusion to me.

The appeal of a strip club is the same as that of a bar, but with more titillation, the people that actively engage with these strippers are the kind of people that'd rather get a lapdance than watching a girl on a screen, it's more real, it's more social and direct, you can actually interact with whomever get's you excited in a casual way without all the fuss of going on a date.

Getting horny is not the goal, that requires no real effort, you're there for the show, people can enjoy watching a dancer strip down and swing around a pole without the promise of sex, in the ideal situation, the patron enjoys watching the show and the dancer enjoys giving that show, exploitation only comes into play when either of both parties is being manipulated or forced.

So no, strip clubs are not misogynistic, being found sexy and making bank on being sexy is not woman-unfriendly business in concept (or man-unfriendly for male strippers), it all comes down to the individuals.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

Well you can't really have it just one way. If your someone that considers female strip clubs mysogonistic, then you pretty much have to concede that male strip clubs are misandrist. Their literally the same thing.

Assuming that they are literally the same thing, yes. The way our society deals with both of them tends to be very different, however.

As far as I'm aware both fall under the same legislation, could you elaborate?

 

[Terminal Blue]

It's a hard question and one I don't think can be resolved with a simple answer.

I've never been to what most people think of when they think of a strip club, but from what people I know who have done that kind of work have told me I think stripping has the potential to be the most empowering and most affirming form of sex work because in theory it forces you to deal with the actual person in front of you as a person, rather than an depersonalized body on a screen. In that sense, I think the people saying that there's no point when you can just go watch porn or that you're paying to be wound up with no gratification are missing the point a bit, because that kind of negotiated denial is not only fun, but it's one thing you can never actually do to yourself. It requires another person to be there, and there's something potentially much warmer and more life affirming about that than simply watching porn.

I think the point where it starts to get misogynistic is that we still live in a culture where a lot of men are taught (and end up believing) that they're simply entitled to women's bodies, that they shouldn't have to pay or give anything in return because they should have some kind of inherent power over women, and this creates a feeling of rejection or resentment when that fails to manifest. So you have men who go to strip clubs and pay to have someone be their sexual fantasy, but at the same time they bitterly resent the fact that they're paying at all, that rather than having all the power they have to give up something in return. In this sense, I think porn is far more at risk of inducing or reproducing misogynist attitudes because it gives the viewer a far more perfect (and far more seductive) illusion of control.

In short, I think you can go to a strip club and still treat women like they're human beings who deserve respect. I think the way to do that is to understand that they're working to provide a service for you, and part of that service is that they are allowing you to objectify them. You can enjoy that. Indeed, if you're going to go to such a place you should enjoy that as it's kind of the point, but be nice, obey the rules and above all understand that it's a limited exchange, and if that's something which upsets you or makes you feel sad or bitter then this probably isn't a thing you should be doing.

 

[doggy go 7]

There's a difference between misogyny and sexism; misogyny is about the active hatred of women, thinking they are worse or inferior, whilst sexism involves no hatred, just thinking that women are different, and treating them differently. Obviously the two are linked, and sometimes difficult to pull shout, but it's an important difference. I agree there's not much that's hateful about strip clubs, so if you meant misogynistic, then I'll say no too. Sexist I think is more complex, because there isn't anything inherently wrong with admiring people for purely aesthetic reasons, but they're still banking on a skewed sexist society in order to keep going, and I really wonder how many strip clubs there would be if there were less sexism.
I think my answer would be that they aren't inherently sexist (much like porn isn't), but plenty of them probably happen to be (much like porn). Maybe I can't talk cos I've never been, but that's got little to do with fears of sexism, and more to so with them not being as much of a thing in England, and the fact that I don't get the idea of looking at naked women to get horny and then not being allowed to wank.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

I'm okay with them as long as everyone obeys the rules, the dancers are paid fairly and it isn't dabbling in the illegal sex trade, and by extension the human trafficking trade.

Mind you, where I live it would be wholly possible to have a strip club share the space with a brothel: it would simply be a matter of licences.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Well you can't really have it just one way. If your someone that considers female strip clubs mysogonistic, then you pretty much have to concede that male strip clubs are misandrist. Their literally the same thing.

Assuming that they are literally the same thing, yes. The way our society deals with both of them tends to be very different, however.

As far as I'm aware both fall under the same legislation, could you elaborate?

Legally, yes, but the way that the two are viewed by society at large, and the target audience is rather different, which has effects on the industry. That's not to say this is inherently true, nor will it remain so.

 

[Thyunda]

By this point the term misogyny completely lost its meaning anyway, so just about everything can be considered misogynous.

Yeah, and going "HURR DURR everything is misogynistic" is the best way of combating any criticism and make you look like a well educated, tolerant person to hold a mature discussion with.

But that's the truth of the matter, the term is overused, making it meaningless.

Well, no. That's not how words work. See, sometimes you can have an incorrect label, and then it would be meaningless, but unless the label is incorrect, it's not meaningless no matter how often it's used. That's like saying "What do you mean by 'weather' anyway? You use that term when it's sunny or when it's cloudy and honestly I hear it so much it's lost all meaning."

OT: I wouldn't say strip clubs are inherently misogynistic. I would say that there are people who go to them specifically because they see women as objects, but that's not the club's fault. Any argument that strip clubs merely reinforce misogynistic beliefs can be compared to an argument that places that sell alcohol are promoting domestic abuse because alcohol factors into a lot of the causes of domestic abuse. But, in both situations, 'pricks' make up the majority of the causes, so attacking an institution for providing an in-demand service doesn't make much in the way of sense.

Some strip clubs shortchange or mistreat their women, but that's not misogyny so much as it is being sleazy cheapskates and, quite cynically, targeting people they're sure have no recourse.

 

[StatusNil]

Beats me, since I have no idea what the word means anymore. It's like Smurf talk at this point: "The misogynist misogynists misogyned in the misogynic misogyny." Almost as if the currency of the term had been debased in some manner.

And in any case, are we talking about strip clubs with naked women gyrating on poles, or the ones with Magic Mike grinding his banana hammock into a delighted lady's face?

 

[Amaror]

If you look at it as just two strip clubs side by side, one male and one female, then yes ()or rather, none of them are).
But this is hardly the case in real life.

Assuming that they are literally the same thing, yes. The way our society deals with both of them tends to be very different, however.

Ok, so would you guys like to actually tell me in what way they are different specificially?
As i have said i have never been in either one, since i don't see the appeal, but i didn't notice a different perception towards male strip clubs over female strip clubs.
Well female strip clubs are more popular since men are just generally more into that stuff, but that's not something sexist.

 

[aba1]

One reason for that though is the thought that it would be offensive to the female population in general as such places actively objectify women.

Everyone objectifies everybody man. Think about it if you are doing a job then your boss is objectifying you since they are using you as a tool to complete a task. If we are going to play up objectification the way feminists do then everyone is objectified constantly and it is actually just a normal part of living.

OT: I don't think they are misogynistic, I would say the opposite in fact it is a entire club dedicated to admiration of the female form. People literally pay money just for the mere opportunity to be in the presence of a women, as if a woman's sheer existence gives them value. If anything I think it is degrading to men to pay for something like that when normally it should be something of a mutual human exchange.

 

[Lightknight]

Seeing as both male and female strip clubs exist, no, they are not inherently misogynistic. Likewise, attraction to items involving reproduction are inherently biological and are essential to any species' ability to survive. You might as well be asking if there being so many water fountains is misaquanistic

The idea of a club itself is fine. What is misogynistic is how some patrons don't always respect the performer's boundaries. I've also heard stories of owners shortchanging the women that work there. Adding to that are social norms that create a world where there are more female strip clubs than male and how people treat performers as if they are lesser.

I don't know if it's social norms so much as biological norms where the demand for female performers is higher than the demand for male performers. Remember that males are predisposed to higher rates of arousal due to their ability to reproduce multiple times a day whereas females have a lower predisposition which is hypothesized to their ability to reproduce once per year. These biological differences are not likely just social normatives. We see these across multiple species and while humans may like to believe that we are evolved beyond animal instinct that simply isn't even close to being true.

 

[Kotaro]

Not at all.
Not only do male strip clubs exist, all of the employees at a strip club, you know, want to work there. Yes, some of the patrons can be horrible to the employees, but the same could be said about literally any job where you work directly with customers ever.

 

[Erttheking]

all of the employees at a strip club, you know, want to work there.

That's kind of making a big assumption. Plenty of people talk about how they hate their jobs when they're positively mundane, I don't see why strip clubs would be better. Most people don't get jobs because they like they job, they get them because they need money. I'm pretty sure a lot of strippers mentally count down the hours left until they can just collect their pay and leave.

 

[Lightknight]

all of the employees at a strip club, you know, want to work there.

That's kind of making a big assumption. Plenty of people talk about how they hate their jobs when they're positively mundane, I don't see why strip clubs would be better. Most people don't get jobs because they like they job, they get them because they need money. I'm pretty sure a lot of strippers mentally count down the hours left until they can just collect their pay and leave.

The idea is that they aren't slaves. They have willingly entered into an agreement to work for wages with the establishment and are legally entitled to stop providing their services at any time. Ergo, they want to work there more than they don't want to work there.

Like you said, people ***** about their work all the time, that doesn't mean they're being forced to work there or don't want to have a job there. Just that they dream of something better.

 

[Qizx]

Nah, not really.

Only been to one mind you. Didn't strike me as remotely hateful though. Just kinda awkward. A whole lot of mildly aroused dudes sipping drinks and staring at wiggling women. Personally didn't see much value in paying to stare at someone I wasn't going to be touching anytime soon.

I totally agree with this, I've never been to a strip club, but I've been to a private showing on accident (long story). Was just super awkward and I didn't see the point of it at all, a bunch of guys who all want to do stuff, but can't, watching hot women. There's literally nothing about it appealing, I didn't think it was misogynistic just dumb, and a waste of their money.

 

[MonsterCrit]

The idea of a club itself is fine. What is misogynistic is how some patrons don't always respect the performer's boundaries. I've also heard stories of owners shortchanging the women that work there. Adding to that are social norms that create a world where there are more female strip clubs than male and how people treat performers as if they are lesser.

There is a significantly greater demand for female strippers than male strippers. Apparently. I mean if women got turn on by skimpy muscular men gyrating in their thongs to the same degree we enjoy scantily clad women. Trust me you'd see as many male strippers as female ones.

But women apparently aren't or apparently so coy about it that everyone assumes they aren't, so no chippendales for you ladies. You need to hoot and holler a little more and be free with those dollar bills.

 

[Jadak]

As i have said i have never been in either one, since i don't see the appeal

The appeal is the naked people dancing on a stage, just thought I'd clear that up for you

but i didn't notice a different perception towards male strip clubs over female strip clubs.

Do you not watch movies or something? Female strip clubs (female dancers) have tend to be perceived as anything from sex worker trafficking drug dens to just some variation of bar where low life drunks go to harass women. I've been to plenty and occasionally either are true, but not always.

For male dancers, the portrayal and what my female friends tell me tends to be that they're big party zones. Think of any movie with male strippers, the performance is likely accompanied by a horde of screaming women and/or gay men. Everyone seems to think it's a crazy good time and fun for all.

Now go the female dancer clubs. It's likely to be quieter, with a handful of lonely dudes sitting around drinking in solitude. At best, occasionally you'll get the equivalent of a couple friends going to a bar and hanging out, but with boobs.

tldr: Big crazy fun party with flailing penis vs. handful of depressing alcoholics with tits, that's the difference in perception.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

Misogynistic once meant real hatred for women. Now it's apparently "I don't like it - tumblr/twitter".
No, they are not.
They are kinda weird, but that's as far as it goes as long as they are legal.