Poll: Do you guys actually enjoy the dumbing down of games ?

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DaedalusIcarus

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Aug 17, 2009
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Lately I've seen a lot of positive reviews of and opinions on Mass Effect 2. To me it's just the last step in a trend which I've seen, and hated for a long time.
In order to make the game more 'accessible' and 'streamlined' the inventory management of Mass Effect 1 where you had to manage weapons and armor across teammates have been ripped out of the game entirely.

A similar example was the butchering of the Deus Ex franchise with Deus Ex 2 where lock picks and multi tools were combined into a single tool, all ammo types being discarded in favour of a uniform ammo resource and the skill system was done away with entirely.
( Ok, you can claim there's a minimal amount of management in the form of armor customization, but I completed the game just fine without *ever* concerning myself with this. I never even bought anything from a vendor, meaning it's reduced to a useless gimmick)

Similarly, one can look at Dragon's age which reduced the complex class-based systems seen in previous fantasy games from Bioware with 3 classes (was it ? I simply stopped playing this game before I was 10% done with the story).
This seemed even more simplistic than the original class system of the KOTOR series which also used a custom non-D&D set of rules.

It can also be seen in games such as the first Command & Conquer game versus C&C 3. In C&C 1 it made sense to combine different unit types to get a good well-rounded army whereas it's perfectly possible to steamroll people in C&C 3 using an army of Mammoth or scorpion tanks.

This, of course is seems even more shallow and awful when held up against the original Starcraft game in which there seems to be a counter to almost every unit and general strategy.


Sure, there are some counter-examples to offer such as CoD 1 to CoD 4 where perks and weapon upgrades have introduces a level of customization which was non-existent before. But to me it seems a pretty general trend that games get dumbed down nonetheless.

So, my question is, am I the only person who gets put off by this push towards "cinematic" experiences at the cost of core gameplay mechanics being dumbed down ?
 

vento 231

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Dec 31, 2009
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I don't enjoy it, but I play what ever comes along that is an fps, so it's not as common as in rpg's. Mass effect 2 was overrated. Good topic by the way and welcome to the Escapist!
 

Sir Kemper

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Jan 21, 2010
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Depends, mainly when i play games i tend to just shut down my mind, and not have to think too much about what i'm doing.
 

NeutralDrow

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Mar 23, 2009
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Loaded language. Whether I enjoy "cinematic" games and "dumbing down" games are two different concepts. I have no problems with the former, so I'll just assume you're speaking like making games easy to understand and get into is somehow a bad thing and disagree with you.

I'm assuming that means a "yay" vote.

vento 231 said:
I don't enjoy it, but I play what ever comes along that is an fps, so it's not as common as in rpg's. Mass effect 2 was overrated. Good topic by the way and welcome to the Escapist!
He's been here longer than you have.
 

lacktheknack

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Jan 19, 2009
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Unfortunately, the more silent, non-protesting masses like it. And they have more money than us.
 

mahtehthew

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Jan 30, 2010
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I don't usually like games getting dumbed down but I hate it when they are over complicated devs need to find the right balance
 

Chrmike

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Oct 20, 2009
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I think that using the Mass Effect 2 example lacks weight because they didn't dumb down the game. The quality in the story, visuals, and voice acting are evidence that no dumbing down was done. I think that the micromanaging in Mass Effect 1 was interesting; however, I love RPG's and even I started tugging my hair out near the end of the game when customizing my team on the Normandy. Sure I 'll miss picking stuff for my team; but the trade off is that you can look more deeply at the story and enjoy the gameplay more.
 

AvsJoe

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May 28, 2009
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You should add an "other" option to the poll. I do enjoy cinematic games but I also enjoy difficult ones as well (not controller-snappingly difficult, but I want a few "Game Over"s along the way).
 

Katana314

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SOMEtimes. The issue I had with Mass Effect 2 is that its shooter elements were never too complex or intricate. Believe it or not, many FPS's have to come up with a new unique mechanic or deeply refine the shooting and level design in order for it to be fun.

But it can be good. Some of my favorite games are very simple. Let's remember games are not meant to be a job. We use them to relax and relieve stress, often from a long day at work. Making it simple and dumb is sometimes OK if that's what people want. I like that the more complex games are far from dying out, but I think a lot of people are really snubbish whenever the industry changes, or even a PART of the industry changes. No one's forcing you to play it, and this stuff has always been very subjective.
 

Nargleblarg

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Chrmike said:
I think that using the Mass Effect 2 example lacks weight because they didn't dumb down the game. The quality in the story, visuals, and voice acting are evidence that no dumbing down was done. I think that the micromanaging in Mass Effect 1 was interesting; however, I love RPG's and even I started tugging my hair out near the end of the game when customizing my team on the Normandy. Sure I 'll miss picking stuff for my team; but the trade off is that you can look more deeply at the story and enjoy the gameplay more.
I agree, just because I have to manage my squad less doesn't mean it's dumbed down. In a bioware interview they said they did it so you didn't spend half the game in your inventory menu and you could actually go out and play the game.
 

ottenni

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Aug 13, 2009
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Sometimes i just like to screw around with my games. So sometimes simpler games are good for this, other times i like the depth and challenge. So i really don't care. As long as there is variety i don't mind. And i like to remind myself that gaming is allot more mainstream these days and developers have a bigger audience to cater for. And thats just something i need to accept.
 

BlindMessiah94

The 94th Blind Messiah
Nov 12, 2009
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I actually don't mind it in games like Mass Effect, but I wish every game wasn't following the trend. Mass Effect is essentially trying to be like a movie, so I am playing it less for the gameplay and more for the story.
But that's not the case with the majority of games I play.
Especially games geared towards "kids".
When I was growing up you got 2 tokens for the arcade from pa and if you couldn't beat the game using them you had to wait until next week.
And the games were EXTREMELY difficult.
Nowadays kid friendly means super super easy, which in my opinion is just breeding a new generation of gamers that are leaning away from challenging games and leaning towards "ooh shiny".
 

Shanecooper

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Aug 12, 2009
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The dumbing down of games is what causes bad sportsmanship in most games nowadays. Little Timmy never learned that you will die when you play games, so he never learned to accept that fact. That's why you get those little shits screaming into their headsets when you kill them, because they're use to games that don't let you die. Bring back the life system I say.
 

CmdrGoob

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Removing tedious micromanagement or unnecessary complexity doesn't equal dumbing down.

For example, ME1 inventory management boils down to periodically stop, look through accumulated 50+ junk items to see if you've picked up anything better than what's currently equipped, swap if necessary, repeat for each character over and over again. That's not really deep.

Or look at DA:O vs NWN2. NWN2 character creation has an overly complex mix of several dozen classes and prestige classes and mind boggling multi-class rules, and yet even with all this 'depth' chances are your fighter has like 1 combat ability to use, maybe 2. Whereas DA:O has a simple 3 class system that anyone can understand without a ridiculous manual and yet still manages to allow you to create many builds each with multiple different abilities. Which is deeper?
 

quiet_samurai

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Apr 24, 2009
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How is making something simpler automatically mean it's "dumbed down." Did anyone honestly enjoy the micro management nightmare of ME1's inventory? Just because something is more complex or difficult, doesn't automatically make it more suited for the intelligent.... let alone make one more intelligent for enjoying it.

If taking time from playing the actual game to make room in my god damn backpack or whatever, and to maximize my characters makes me feel more intelligent.... then dumb is much more appealing.

"Better to be stupid and having fun than bored out of my huge genius brain"

-Mr. Croshaw.
 

The Bandit

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Feb 5, 2008
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Sigh.

The weapon and armor customization was an unnecessary burden. It was not fun or rewarding. It was a chore.

Your definition of "dumbing down" is taking a loose, untangled mess and making it more concise. That's not dumbing down. It's intelligent.

The best example I can give is in writing. George Orwell's essay "Politics and the English Language" gives this example of a good sentence and a bad sentence:

"I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."

"Objective considerations of contemporary phenomena compel the conclusion that success or failure in competitive activities exhibits no tendency to be commensurate with innate capacity, but that a considerable element of the unpredictable must invariably be taken into account."

Mass Effect 1's inventory system is the second sentence. Mass Effect 2's is the first. It's simpler, yes, but that's precisely what makes it better.