Poll: Does Santa Claus exist? More importantly, what will you tell your children?

[JFKdidntLoS]

I'll tell my kids that Santa doesn't like Mexicans.

 

[Jobz]

I remember the Christmas I found out Santa didn't exist. I was nine. I helped my uncle to put together a doll house type thing for my younger cousin on Christmas Eve, the next day she unwrapped it and the card said "From Santa"

I'll tell my kids about Santa and they can believe in him until they turn 10. Once they hit double digits, the dream shattering begins.

 

[sequio]

Don't tell children that Santa exists?

You'd do less harm not teaching them to read.

huh?? I don't see how they equate?

Both are important means of raising children, cultural vehicles, a way of easing children into reality.

Do we start teaching children with calculus? No, we teach them to circle pictures of flowers and bunnies... which has about as much to do with the 'reality' of mathematics as Santa does to the real world. Yes, its a lie, but if you wanted to cut 'lies' from education you'd need to eradicate half of our existing syllabus.

Lies to build understanding and truths are natural and essential.

I, personally, won't cut the benefits of santa, along with the happiness he brings from any child's life.

So telling kids daddy/mommy puts presents under the tree instead of "santa did it" will harm kids? And that's worse than not teaching children the basic skills of reading, writing,and math? i think it was just a bad analogy.

 

[Jaythulhu]

Phaug. "Santa Claus", such as he is, is nothing more than an extremely successful advertising campaign from coca cola in the 1920s. Whilst he may be very, very loosely based on the christian "St. Nick", he's nothing more than a way to sell softdrink and junk to parents.

 

[Break]

I'll tell them about Father Christmas, and I'll tell them about the kindly Turkish priest that the Father Christmas myth is based on. If they want to believe in the guy, what the hell, OK.

Both are important means of raising children, cultural vehicles, a way of easing children into reality.

Do we start teaching children with calculus? No, we teach them to circle pictures of flowers and bunnies... which has about as much to do with the 'reality' of mathematics as Santa does to the real world. Yes, its a lie, but if you wanted to cut 'lies' from education you'd need to eradicate half of our existing syllabus.

Lies to build understanding and truths are natural and essential.

I, personally, won't cut the benefits of santa, along with the happiness he brings from any child's life.

The belief in Santa Claus is far from essential to a child's upbringing, and the lesson it carries is stronger when it stems from a parental figure. Please, explain to me why a child should care for the opinion of a mystical hermit over that of their own parents, when the same physical rewards are offered by both, but only one is actually there?

You may prefer to use Santa Claus to teach your children, but calling the truer alternative "harmful" is ludicrous.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Both are important means of raising children, cultural vehicles, a way of easing children into reality.

Do we start teaching children with calculus? No, we teach them to circle pictures of flowers and bunnies... which has about as much to do with the 'reality' of mathematics as Santa does to the real world. Yes, its a lie, but if you wanted to cut 'lies' from education you'd need to eradicate half of our existing syllabus.

Lies to build understanding and truths are natural and essential.

I, personally, won't cut the benefits of santa, along with the happiness he brings from any child's life.

So telling kids daddy/mommy puts presents under the tree instead of "santa did it" will harm kids? And that's worse than not teaching children the basic skills of reading, writing,and math? i think it was just a bad analogy.

It wasn't an analogy, for a start.

'Lies' are a core part of how humans learn. Im not comparing it to education, i'm saying they are of the same stock and form. And in a list of what i value in a child's learning, i'd place the concept of reward for work above arithmetic any day of the week.

You may prefer to use Santa Claus to teach your children, but calling the truer alternative "harmful" is ludicrous.

You give a viable alternative. I'm saying that cutting him from a child's life because he is 'not real' is harmful. If you can instill the same values with parental ability then by all means go ahead. I'm more taking a jab at people who think themselves so terribly clever for getting rid of him all together with no understanding of what he really represents.

I don't think Santa is necessary. But i think him a damn good idea.

 

[Booze Zombie]

If I should ever have children to raise, I would simply not tell them about a Santa, but instead a dry sense of reality.

"Who buys the gifts for us at Christmas?"
"Why I do." "Then why do the other children claim a that a man called Saint Nick/Santa is the giver of gifts?"
"Well, that's what most parents tell their children." "Why did you not tell me this?" "Because it is not true."
"Then why is it told?"
"Because most parents seek to extend 'childhood innocence' by making children believe things that they know to be false. They can also blame Santa if they happen to buy a rubbish gift."
"I see. Why do you not do this or seek to extend my 'innocence'?"
"Because I wish to instill within you a dry and thoughtful attitude."
"Ah, now I understand. Thank you, father."

Simple.

 

[qbert4ever]

Both are important means of raising children, cultural vehicles, a way of easing children into reality.

Do we start teaching children with calculus? No, we teach them to circle pictures of flowers and bunnies... which has about as much to do with the 'reality' of mathematics as Santa does to the real world. Yes, its a lie, but if you wanted to cut 'lies' from education you'd need to eradicate half of our existing syllabus.

Lies to build understanding and truths are natural and essential.

I, personally, won't cut the benefits of santa, along with the happiness he brings from any child's life.

That's all well and good for people that have Christmas in their home, but what about the Jew kids? Or is it just healthier to tell them that Santa is real, but they don't get anything because Mommy and Daddy won't fork over money when the plate is passed around?

As for me, I don't know. I would have to decide if the 5 minutes of pure sad on their face would be worth the 12 years or so of them being stupid.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[jim_doki]

i really didn't want to use this, because i use it all the fucking time here and by now it should have sunk in


"All right," said Susan, "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need ... fantasies to make life bearable."
No. Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.
"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers?"
Yes. As practice. You have to start out learning to believe the little lies.
"So we can believe the big ones?"
Yes. Justice. Mercy. Duty. That sort of thing.
"They're not the same at all!"
Take the universe and grind it down to the finest powder and sieve it through with the finest sieve and then show me one atom of justice, one molecule of mercy. And yet you act as if there were some sort of rightness in the universe by which it may be judged.
"Yes. But people have got to believe that or what's the point ? "
My point exactly.

 

[sequio]

If I should ever have children to raise, I would simply not tell them about a Santa, but instead a dry sense of reality.

"Who buys the gifts for us at Christmas?"
"Why I do." "Then why do the other children claim a that a man called Saint Nick/Santa is the giver of gifts?"
"Well, that's what most parents tell their children." "Why did you not tell me this?" "Because it is not true."
"Then why is it told?"
"Because most parents seek to extend 'childhood innocence' by making children believe things that they know to be false. They can also blame Santa if they happen to buy a rubbish gift."
"I see. Why do you not do this or seek to extend my 'innocence'?"
"Because I wish to instill within you a dry and thoughtful attitude."
"Ah, know I understand. Thank you, father."

Simple.

BUWAHAHAA sorry, just from personal experience a kid will never stop asking why.

 

[Booze Zombie]

And this thirst for knowledge is bad, why?

 

[Ultrajoe]

If I should ever have children to raise, I would simply not tell them about a Santa, but instead a dry sense of reality.

"Who buys the gifts for us at Christmas?"
"Why I do." "Then why do the other children claim a that a man called Saint Nick/Santa is the giver of gifts?"
"Well, that's what most parents tell their children." "Why did you not tell me this?" "Because it is not true."
"Then why is it told?"
"Because most parents seek to extend 'childhood innocence' by making children believe things that they know to be false. They can also blame Santa if they happen to buy a rubbish gift."
"I see. Why do you not do this or seek to extend my 'innocence'?"
"Because I wish to instill within you a dry and thoughtful attitude."
"Ah, know I understand. Thank you, father."

Simple.

As much as i hate to continue to set myself up as the ass of this thread, i do have to take 3 shots at this.

1) What child talks/reasons like this?
2) Is that 'dry and thoughtful attitude' what you would wish on a child, and do you think that defying falsities is the way to go about it?
3) Is that honestly why you think parents tell their children about Santa?

Please note, i am not doing this out of a romantic notion that every childhood needs to be filled with fantasy and faeries. I don't give a crap how you raise your children and admit to the fact that there are as many ways of doing it as there are children, but i do feel deeply curious about how you came to the above conclusions.

EDIT:

i really didn't want to use this, because i use it all the fucking time here and by now it should have sunk in

Points for Hogfather use, that rather sums up my position on this issue.

I would have to decide if the 5 minutes of pure sad on their face would be worth the 12 years or so of them being stupid.

Decisions, decisions.

You consider children who indulge in fantasy stupid? And those without it to be advantaged in some way? As before, i am genuinely interested in your response.

And this thirst for knowledge is bad, why?

It isn't, he's rather rudely mocking your idea that you can stem it so easily.

 

[Reaperman Wompa]

No, I will tell them how I work for their presents because I love them.

I would rather have my kids believe those are stories just to pass time rather than something real, and I never have to bother explaining why I lied to them and I can use it as an example that hard work leads to you being able to buy nice things etc.

 

[Lord Krunk]

Hey, it's tradition!

Anyway, Santa never did anything bad for me, and 'he' gave me an extra kick of that Christmas spirit. Seriously, I'm not going to father that dickhead kid (that's always there) that tells every other kid otherwise, therefore crushing the Christmas spirit.

Ugh, too much 'Christmas Spirit'. I feel like I'm in a cheesy movie.

 

[Booze Zombie]

I was assuming that if I raised a child by answering every question that they asked to the best of my knowledge, that they might become very "yes, no... why is that so".

But mostly, I assume that the truth would be good because facts and answers were the one thing my childhood were lacking.

 

[qbert4ever]

You consider children who indulge in fantasy stupid? And those without it to be advantaged in some way? As before, i am genuinely interested in your response.

*takes deep breath* If you call somebody who thinks that a fat dude who lives in a tiny unkown hut in the north pole has short people make millions of toys that somehow fit into a single sack only to be shoved into the back of a sled to be flown around the world by flying deer in one single night giving presents to all the little good kids (with rich kids always being better then poor kids), not to mention the mall santas, the house's without chimenys, the countless homeless kids getting shitted out just because they live in some hole half-way around the world and have the misfortune to not even know about Santa, a red light being strong enough to cut through super-thick fog but not bright enough to blind the poor bastard who has it glued to his face, and deer eating meat pie (in some versions of storys, but none the less), if you would call these kids "smart", well, I would like to know who you think is "dumb".

That's not to say that any of this is bad to tell kids. Or that it's their fault. Kids are born without the know-how to figure these things out, and it's up to us to teach them. Maybe the Santa lie is good for that, in that it teaches kids to think about what they believe in. The problem is that this isn't about some kid reading a book and then pretending to slay a dragon, it's years of one big lie that has no end other then tears for the kid. I would think that teaching kids to be able to escape from the shitty-ness of real life in a healthy way (playing pretend, reading a book), is better then teaching them "guess what kids, that awesome, perfect thing you thought was real for so long? IT'S NOT! I'm no shrink, I have no idea if this is good or bad for their little heads. God knows I was a fan of that fat freak for quite a while.

That being said, the part of my post you quoted was made in jest (somewhat anyways. I live off the tears of children). And I would still like to see what you have to say for the kids whose family's don't teach them about Santa. What happen's when Timmy Green asks his parents why Timmy Smith worships a tree?

 

[TerraMGP]

If I should ever have children to raise, I would simply not tell them about a Santa, but instead a dry sense of reality.

"Who buys the gifts for us at Christmas?"
"Why I do." "Then why do the other children claim a that a man called Saint Nick/Santa is the giver of gifts?"
"Well, that's what most parents tell their children." "Why did you not tell me this?" "Because it is not true."
"Then why is it told?"
"Because most parents seek to extend 'childhood innocence' by making children believe things that they know to be false. They can also blame Santa if they happen to buy a rubbish gift."
"I see. Why do you not do this or seek to extend my 'innocence'?"
"Because I wish to instill within you a dry and thoughtful attitude."
"Ah, know I understand. Thank you, father."

Simple.

As much as i hate to continue to set myself up as the ass of this thread, i do have to take 3 shots at this.

1) What child talks/reasons like this?
2) Is that 'dry and thoughtful attitude' what you would wish on a child, and do you think that defying falsities is the way to go about it?
3) Is that honestly why you think parents tell their children about Santa?

Please note, i am not doing this out of a romantic notion that every childhood needs to be filled with fantasy and faeries. I don't give a crap how you raise your children and admit to the fact that there are as many ways of doing it as there are children, but i do feel deeply curious about how you came to the above conclusions.

EDIT:

i really didn't want to use this, because i use it all the fucking time here and by now it should have sunk in

Points for Hogfather use, that rather sums up my position on this issue.

I would have to decide if the 5 minutes of pure sad on their face would be worth the 12 years or so of them being stupid.

Decisions, decisions.

You consider children who indulge in fantasy stupid? And those without it to be advantaged in some way? As before, i am genuinely interested in your response.

And this thirst for knowledge is bad, why?

It isn't, he's rather rudely mocking your idea that you can stem it so easily.

You ever see those TV shows where the kids are devistated when they learn that santa is not real? Where the kids are pissed off because they realize they have been lied to, and with a senseless lie at that. This isn't just santa being there and not explaining to your kid right away that he is not there. This is feeding your kid a lie that equates to 'don't be bad and some fat man will give you a bribe'. That is whats harmful. Now for the alternative let me jump ahead a few years to when I have my own kids.

My child: "Mommy, whos santa?"

Me: "Santa is a made up person that some parents tell their kids about because of tradition. They buy their kids extra christmas presents and say its from santa."

My child: "Oh, I see. Do I still get presents?"

Me: "yeah"

Child: "Ok Mommy" Runs off to play with legos

Notice its the same scenario as before. This IS how kids reason. Your not giving them enough credit. I have four brothers, five god siblings, countless cousins and many friends with young kids and I will tell you now ALL of them reason this way even from a young age. Kids are smart, they understand thigns. Intellect and the ability to learn are not things that hamper innocence.

Get the meaning now?

 

[jim_doki]

ultragrinchy snip

while your points are valid in the sense that you want your kids to be smart, which is admirable, I think that imagination is just as important as book lernin'. at least that's how it's always been in my home. It's an important skill to have to be able to dream and think laterally and come up with rediculous answers that can't possibly be correct.

not to mention the fun you can have bringing out presents for everyone christmas night