Poll: DRM and the complainers

[cuddly_tomato]

I'd love to still be able to get a physical copy of a new game that has no drm whatsoever

Correct me if I am wrong someone but didn't Sins of a Solar Empire come completely DRM free?

 

[Hyoscine]

I often get a little annoyed by how up in arms some people get about DRM issues; kids who seem to want Amnesty International involved. There's bigger things going on in the world you know?

That said, I was kinda looking forward to playing GTA 4. Sounds like quite a lot of hassle though, and someone's already got "my" username on Games for Windows, so I think I'll leave it for now. Am I voting with my wallet? I guess, indirectly. Companies are free to impose whatever restrictions they want on their products. My time is worth something, however. If a publisher Fedexed me some laundry to do every time I tried to play one of their games, I would stop buying their stuff. Anything that requires I do non-fun things in my leisure time is a massive turn-off.

One of the nice things about being in my late twenties and having more money than free time, is that I can't be bothered to pirate games I feel are crippled by their publishers. I'm neither another sale, nor a guy who's invalidated his right to be a little pissed off by grabbing a torrorent and becoming a millionth of the problem as publishers see it.

 

[ThorUK]

I see the need for DRMs, but I can also see that EA are going about it in completely the wrong way.

Honestly, I get annoyed at a game or any other software trying to bundle other things in with itself when it installs - I don't want/need google/yahoo/etc toolbars, my direct x is up to date, as are my drivers, just install yourself to the directory I tell you!

The DRM should, in my opinion:

Prevent copying of the game to the computer of a user who has not purchased the game.
Not impede/slow the normal launch process of the game.
Allow the game to be played without the CD/DVD in the drive.

Steam is good DRM because:
i)You have infinite installs to your account on any machine anywhere in the world. Believe me I've tested it.
ii)It also auto updates games, including new content, for free.
iii)It tells you if a driver is out of date and where to go to get it updated, with links
iv)It does that before you start playing the game, rather than just crashing EA style.
v)Social networking.
vi) It very rarely causes crashes or damage to your PC, nor does it ask for CD keys, registering software or any other irritating ways of 'proving' you paid for the game.

Granted only being allowed one a game per account can grate a little, you can't pass games around between friends either. But other DRM systems don't let you do either anyway so it's forgiven.

the only serious problem with it is it's reliance on the internet when you install and the way it occasionally wants to check back to Steam servers to verify your account. Both of which will bugger you up the bum if you don't have a web connection. But having said that it costs nothing to re verify your games once you do get a web connection, you just need to remember your password. Whereas EA charge money and demand physical proof to get a CD key reset.

i) Agreed, about the only good thing about steam.
ii) It auto-updates games - a patch can change the feel of the game significantly, I prefer the option of keeping it at a certain patch, not to mention that patches occassionally break games (and steam!).
iii) I can update my driver if I need to, otherwise updating it merely adds another degree of instability.
iv) Not really a fan of other DRMs either - game should work via double click exe, game runs.
v) I have x-fire, msn, yahoo, Ventrilo, TeamSpeak, etc. for that.
vi) One more ste of software, one more set of things that can crash (it slows the game launch, also).

I own steam's "Orange Box", and honestly, HL ep's 1 and 2 play better without steam.

 

[Darkestace]

I think it's way to far to go...

burnt at the stake ftw!

 

[incal11]

I'd love to still be able to get a physical copy of a new game that has no drm whatsoever

Correct me if I am wrong someone but didn't Sins of a Solar Empire come completely DRM free?

Yes , if I look around more on the net it turns out there are a few drm free game ; only where I live you have to know english first (which isn't a given everywhere on the world , seriously) to know they exist, and I never see them in the actual stores ,
though I'm glad I can order them online.

You can play steam games offline. I don't know why you'd want to. All you have to do is install a steam game on a laptop, go to a hotspot, activate and set it to Offline mode.

That can depend on the games; but when I install a game I do not want to look for a f---ing hotspot.
I don't want to have to set an offline mode to start with.

But again, I digress, if you're playing online to begin with, there's no real reason to fault Steam for this.

Believe it or not , I do not want to play online all the time , in fact I'd like not to be forced to rely on steam for online gaming if that were possible.

Updates on Steam are all free, Valve updates their games often, and it's quick.

Like ThorUK I want to decide if I want an update or not.

Also it is impossible to create a program like Steam in a way that it will never crash. Steam is a program that interacts with the games it runs, and these interactions usually run smoothly, but sometimes they can simply disagree with each other.

...Then steam should not have been created to begin with.
I don't want it to "interact" with my game , period.

I often get a little annoyed by how up in arms some people get about DRM issues; kids who seem to want Amnesty International involved. There's bigger things going on in the world you know?

Defending consumer right IS one of the big thing; I am trying to be reasonable in the way I express my opinions , here I feel I have to defend them (>the steam worship going on makes me kinda sick)
I agree the world is in a bad shape , but untill I can do anything to take the world's suffering on my shoulders I'll take some time on these forum discussing video games ... like you .

Am I voting with my wallet? I guess, indirectly. Companies are free to impose whatever restrictions they want on their products. My time is worth something, however. If a publisher Fedexed me some laundry to do every time I tried to play one of their games, I would stop buying their stuff. Anything that requires I do non-fun things in my leisure time is a massive turn-off.

Being just another dumb unquestioning consumer does not suits me (I'm not generalizing , what you think other industries should do may vary depending on the importance you give them).

I too vote with my wallet ; against DRMs.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I absolutely hate DRM ever since SecuRom locked down my whole fucking comp when it couldn't read the disc in the tray I have loathed DRM. I mean the game wasn't pirated or anything it was sitting in the damn tray yet that shit software couldn't read it thus locking down my whole system making me do a hard boot to which I then had to fight with securom to let me uninstall the game which once done after a long agonizing delay threw that game in the bin.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

The thing with Valve is that it's DRM is low key, and most of the time works well. I think the reason this is acceptable is the digital distro that it offers as well as the fact Valve actually makes good games.

 

[incal11]

The thing with Valve is that it's DRM is low key, and most of the time works well. I think the reason this is acceptable is the digital distro that it offers as well as the fact Valve actually makes good games.

Compensating for DRMs is not making DRMs acceptable.

I'm afraid that if you think otherwise we can never understand each other.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

The thing with Valve is that it's DRM is low key, and most of the time works well. I think the reason this is acceptable is the digital distro that it offers as well as the fact Valve actually makes good games.

Compensating for DRMs is not making DRMs acceptable.

I'm afraid that if you think otherwise we can never understand each other.

Forgot to add the fact that's it isn't really very restricting. You can play without an internet connection...sorta. You can play in offline mode from your house, but you have to have acessed the net once to make your account and register your game.

Also, DRM should not be used as a derogatory, as not all DRMs are bad. Dic Checks and seriel keys are DRM. Really, as long as the game is good and the DRM isn't overly restrictive and/or draconian I don't really care.

 

[incal11]

The thing with Valve is that it's DRM is low key, and most of the time works well. I think the reason this is acceptable is the digital distro that it offers as well as the fact Valve actually makes good games.

Compensating for DRMs is not making DRMs acceptable.

I'm afraid that if you think otherwise we can never understand each other.

Forgot to add the fact that's it isn't really very restricting. You can play without an internet connection...sorta. You can play in offline mode from your house, but you have to have acessed the net once to make your account and register your game.

Also, DRM should not be used as a derogatory, as not all DRMs are bad. Dic Checks and seriel keys are DRM. Really, as long as the game is good and the DRM isn't overly restrictive and/or draconian I don't really care.

I still have big problems with the "sorta"
and the required connection for install ; unless I am effectively buying the game online there should be no need , nor excuses , for that.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

It's a verification and it's not really much of an inconvineice. If you can't afford even a basic internet connection you shouldn't be wasting money on video games.

 

[clarinetJWD]

Because of DRM I'm about to lose my ability to play my legal copy of Spore without going out and pirating the damn thing. I'm losing my saves anyways in spite of the fact all my other games will gladly let me at least keep my saves.

That being said, I do have a love for Steam since it provides a number of good services on top of protecting games intelligently by restricting the only thing they really can restrict, multiplayer.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean losing your saves? Randomly, or when reinstalling? THe save files are hidden, but can be backed up and restored. I'll gladly let you know how if that's the problem.

Edit: I should address the OP as well. It's been said before, but it can't be said enough. DRM is not to prevent piracy, it's to prevent second hand sales, and it's quite effective at that. Steam is an exception because even though you can't resell, its features and flexibility make up for that. I have no problem with DRM if it helps the end user (ala Steam) or at least is transparent to the end user (cd key, disk check, etc.) Activation servers with install limits need to be ended.

 

[hellthins]

Because of DRM I'm about to lose my ability to play my legal copy of Spore without going out and pirating the damn thing. I'm losing my saves anyways in spite of the fact all my other games will gladly let me at least keep my saves.

That being said, I do have a love for Steam since it provides a number of good services on top of protecting games intelligently by restricting the only thing they really can restrict, multiplayer.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean losing your saves? Randomly, or when reinstalling? THe save files are hidden, but can be backed up and restored. I'll gladly let you know how if that's the problem.

With most my games I don't have to back them up, but last time I tried reintroducing backed up saves it basically gave the middle finger and didn't let me access them.

It's a verification and it's not really much of an inconvineice. If you can't afford even a basic internet connection you shouldn't be wasting money on video games.

It is far more than that though. DRM has caused significant problems for a number of people who legitimately purchased the game (Assassin's Creed and FEAR come to mind, along with Bioshock and Spore), and a lot of it, such as Starforce, are notoriously difficult to get off the computer even after the game it was supposed to help make secure is gone. They are also decidedly ineffective at stopping pirating, and create a huge risk since a lot of them act beyond administration controls. I believe the term is something along the lines of Root 0 or System 0? I can't remember the exact term, but they present a great risk for any one with them since they can be hacked and utilized to control the computer.

 

[clarinetJWD]

Because of DRM I'm about to lose my ability to play my legal copy of Spore without going out and pirating the damn thing. I'm losing my saves anyways in spite of the fact all my other games will gladly let me at least keep my saves.

That being said, I do have a love for Steam since it provides a number of good services on top of protecting games intelligently by restricting the only thing they really can restrict, multiplayer.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean losing your saves? Randomly, or when reinstalling? THe save files are hidden, but can be backed up and restored. I'll gladly let you know how if that's the problem.

With most my games I don't have to back them up, but last time I tried reintroducing backed up saves it basically gave the middle finger and didn't let me access them.

That's odd...I've reformatted and replaced the save files on my PC a couple times now and not had a problem.

 

[hellthins]

Because of DRM I'm about to lose my ability to play my legal copy of Spore without going out and pirating the damn thing. I'm losing my saves anyways in spite of the fact all my other games will gladly let me at least keep my saves.

That being said, I do have a love for Steam since it provides a number of good services on top of protecting games intelligently by restricting the only thing they really can restrict, multiplayer.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean losing your saves? Randomly, or when reinstalling? THe save files are hidden, but can be backed up and restored. I'll gladly let you know how if that's the problem.

With most my games I don't have to back them up, but last time I tried reintroducing backed up saves it basically gave the middle finger and didn't let me access them.

That's odd...I've reformatted and replaced the save files on my PC a couple times now and not had a problem.

Shrug, it seemed to tack it on to my registry. Though thankfully I had managed to get that species to the middle of the universe before it, it was still incredibly frustrating to deal with and I'm not looking forward to download and reinstalling a pirated copy of the game after I switch out a lot of my hardware.

I'm just not going to deal with it right now since I'm thankfully not too attached to my specific species. I'll just use it as an excuse to grab the Creepy and Cute creature pack and make something with it. I just really disdain that that's the way EA wants to handle me.

 

[incal11]

It's a verification and it's not really much of an inconvineice. If you can't afford even a basic internet connection you shouldn't be wasting money on video games.

It is an inconvenience in many ways you could grasp if you seriously thought about it;
or read my other posts.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

Because of DRM I'm about to lose my ability to play my legal copy of Spore without going out and pirating the damn thing. I'm losing my saves anyways in spite of the fact all my other games will gladly let me at least keep my saves.

That being said, I do have a love for Steam since it provides a number of good services on top of protecting games intelligently by restricting the only thing they really can restrict, multiplayer.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean losing your saves? Randomly, or when reinstalling? THe save files are hidden, but can be backed up and restored. I'll gladly let you know how if that's the problem.

With most my games I don't have to back them up, but last time I tried reintroducing backed up saves it basically gave the middle finger and didn't let me access them.

It's a verification and it's not really much of an inconvineice. If you can't afford even a basic internet connection you shouldn't be wasting money on video games.

It is far more than that though. DRM has caused significant problems for a number of people who legitimately purchased the game (Assassin's Creed and FEAR come to mind, along with Bioshock and Spore), and a lot of it, such as Starforce, are notoriously difficult to get off the computer even after the game it was supposed to help make secure is gone. They are also decidedly ineffective at stopping pirating, and create a huge risk since a lot of them act beyond administration controls. I believe the term is something along the lines of Root 0 or System 0? I can't remember the exact term, but they present a great risk for any one with them since they can be hacked and utilized to control the computer.

I was referring to STEAM, not the craptacular versions of DRM

 

[incal11]

I was referring to STEAM, not the craptacular versions of DRM

Steam is crap wraped in sugar.

By the way , did you get around to reading my other posts , or just decided you didn't like me ?

 

[Lunar Shadow]

I was referring to STEAM, not the craptacular versions of DRM

Steam is crap wraped in sugar.

By the way , did you get around to reading my other posts , or just decided you didn't like me ?

No i haven't, I am going on my own experience with STEAM and other meaner versions of DRM. STEAM isn't bad, sure you can't sell or return the games you buy through it, but that's digital distro for you. At least they are upfront about their policies and aren't downloading programs without my permission (other than patches which I would allow anyway) or that can freaking put a hole in the security of my computer.