Poll: Elizabeth or Alyx Vance?

[skywolfblue]

You know, there was one game a while back that I heard had a good protagonist/companion relationship. It was a year or two ago, enslaveddyssey to the west I think it was called. I never played it, but I heard it gave a good try but tripped over itself.

There is a reason devs don't do it, its hard. And its hard for just about everyone, programmers, level designers, writers, and testers. Infinite didn't get it 100% right either, Liz jumped on a skyline in front of me and slowed me down, and I was killed because of it (though that got a good laugh out of me). She also stood in the door of a gondola and wouldn't move. But those things are few and far between in my experience so far. They took a pretty big gamble with Liz, there are multiple ways this could have turned out bad, like real bad, Colonial Marines bad, but it didn't.

I wouldn't have said this game "set the bar" for companions or good female characters. But the amount of 5/5 9/10 10/10 scores its getting is pretty wowing, and I won't argue since I love it and love Irrational. I think a lot of games are going to be compared to this and The Last of Us

Enslaved is probably worthy of the mention. Trip is pretty awesome as a character, but she's kinda limited as an AI. She does virtually nothing outside of scripted events. Don't get me wrong, the game is heartwarming and I love it, but the AI isn't it's strong suit. Thus I'm not sure she'd exactly fit as "Best NPC sidekick".

It is hard. Which is why I think it's good that people are taking notice of it and giving infinite a lot of praise for it. It's kinda a shame that graphics get advertised so much but games rarely advertise on how human their AI is. Hopefully that will improve in the future.

 

[bafrali]

I like Alyx, but she never tossed me any health packs or ammo.

Well now we know somebody didn't play Episode 2. Get right to it I say.

 

[Robeltu]

Am I the only person in the world who doesn't like half life? Valve are a great company and I love all their other games but half life just doesn't work for me, I find it boring. I really enjoyed Bioshock Infinite and thus I am voting for Elizabeth

 

[MrShowerHead]

Who do I like more? Well that is an easy answer, Alyx.

Don't get me wrong, Elizabeth is a great character, but I kinda hated her. spoilers incometh

Spoiler

First, she starts fake crying to get me to lower my guard, then beats me in the freakin face with a wrench, and then leaves me to a bunch of fanatical rebels. So thanks for that. I would be PISSED if that happens to me. And yet booker is calm and forgiving. Strike one.

Strike two, she gets all high and mighty on her little soapbox, and yet she is responsible for just as much genocide (and more if we take into account future her). And no, future her had a choice.

Strike three, the moment I stop the experiments in commstock house, her first response is to summon an effing tornado on me. Screw you Elizabeth.

Strike four, she drowns Songbird after she begs him to save them and Songbird risks itself to protect her. That is pretty cold hearted, no matter how you slice it.

Strike five, she drowns Booker who sacrifices life and limb to help and protect her. Noticing a theme here, get close to Elizabeth and she drowns your ass.

Overall, Elizabeth is a backstabbing, spoiled, selfish B$%^&. Great character, funny, personable, but also a horrible human being.

Spoiler

1. You know, she did that for a reason? Booker lied to her about leaving Columbia to Paris, instead flying to New York so he could "wipe away his debt"

2. I think I remember her mumbling to herself how she has "caused all this" and how she didn't mean to do any of it, though I might be wrong. I don't think she never denied her part in many things.

3. She did that because she misunderstood Booker's words. Booker said he wouldn't allow her to kill Comstock, but later added that he's going to do it himself. At least that's how I remember how it happened.

4. Booker and Liz lost control of Songbird, it would've most likely killed Booker if Liz didn't do anything. That said, it was a pretty cruel way of handling it.

5. Booker himself allowed all the Elizabeths to drown him, since it was the only way to fix things.

 

[Olas]

I'll go with Alyx, she's a more complex character than people give her credit. She's exceedingly friendly and warm when around characters like Gordon, her father, and Dog, extremely sarcastic around characters like Mossman and Kliner, and utterly ruthless when around enemies. She's highly educated, intelligent, and skilled at combat. She also has a sensitive side; when traumatic events occur around her you can tell she's visibly shaken by them, but she doesn't break down and start sobbing over them because she has determination to see things through.
You can tell she's been hurt a lot by the war with the combine, yet she seems very hopeful and optimistic. In fact being basically the only young person in the series I'd say she basically represents hope for the future of mankind.

Elizabeth seems kinda like a god-child, I don't know, I feel like it's been done before a lot.

 

[knight steel]

........................It's a matter of perspective?
Their no right or wrong answer it's just personal opinion based on what kind of person/characteristic you like better and as such is purely subjective and really pointless arguing about!

And really we all know that Haku from naruto is the best female side kick

 

[Storm Dragon]

I like Alyx, but she never tossed me any health packs or ammo.

Well now we know somebody didn't play Episode 2. Get right to it I say.

I did play Episode 2, but I don't remember her ever doing this.

 

[DataSnake]

I haven't played Infinite yet, but from what I've read she sounds more like Farah from Sands of Time than Alyx.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Alyx Vance never tossed me money.

Seriously though, she's alright, but for some reason I liked and connected with Elizabeth more.

 

[Hugh Wright]

Voted for Liz, but the more I think of it the reason is more to do with Dewitte and Freeman rather than Alyx and Liz, and that is because of the interaction between the pairs rather tan the characters. The interactions between Alyx and Gordon were all one way pretty much, you could and did not respond to what she said or did and she could only respond to your actions (which if you had as much dexterity as i did when I played was often not what I wanted to do), and while it was great for they day pales in comparison to the interactions both in combat, cut scene and just wandering about in BSI.

 

[bafrali]

I like Alyx, but she never tossed me any health packs or ammo.

Well now we know somebody didn't play Episode 2. Get right to it I say.

I did play Episode 2, but I don't remember her ever doing this.

Well there you go. I guess Yathzee was right when he said that innovation meant catching up to Valve nowadays.

 

[Ryotknife]

Who do I like more? Well that is an easy answer, Alyx.

Don't get me wrong, Elizabeth is a great character, but I kinda hated her. spoilers incometh

Spoiler

First, she starts fake crying to get me to lower my guard, then beats me in the freakin face with a wrench, and then leaves me to a bunch of fanatical rebels. So thanks for that. I would be PISSED if that happens to me. And yet booker is calm and forgiving. Strike one.

Strike two, she gets all high and mighty on her little soapbox, and yet she is responsible for just as much genocide (and more if we take into account future her). And no, future her had a choice.

Strike three, the moment I stop the experiments in commstock house, her first response is to summon an effing tornado on me. Screw you Elizabeth.

Strike four, she drowns Songbird after she begs him to save them and Songbird risks itself to protect her. That is pretty cold hearted, no matter how you slice it.

Strike five, she drowns Booker who sacrifices life and limb to help and protect her. Noticing a theme here, get close to Elizabeth and she drowns your ass.

Overall, Elizabeth is a backstabbing, spoiled, selfish B$%^&. Great character, funny, personable, but also a horrible human being.

Spoiler

1. You know, she did that for a reason? Booker lied to her about leaving Columbia to Paris, instead flying to New York so he could "wipe away his debt"

2. I think I remember her mumbling to herself how she has "caused all this" and how she didn't mean to do any of it, though I might be wrong. I don't think she never denied her part in many things.

3. She did that because she misunderstood Booker's words. Booker said he wouldn't allow her to kill Comstock, but later added that he's going to do it himself. At least that's how I remember how it happened.

4. Booker and Liz lost control of Songbird, it would've most likely killed Booker if Liz didn't do anything. That said, it was a pretty cruel way of handling it.

5. Booker himself allowed all the Elizabeths to drown him, since it was the only way to fix things.

Spoiler

1. a wrench to the face for a white lie is pretty drastic. And then she left him to die at the hands of the rebels (who nearly killed him when they punted him off the airship and he fell about 100 feet and landed on the hard ground). ESPECIALLY since she toyed with his feelings to get him to lower his guard.

2. and yet she was a lot harder on Booker than she ever was on herself despite her actions being in a lot of ways worse than Bookers.

3. I don't care. If someone was Falco punched by Songbird, sent flying into a building 500 feet away, fought his way through the guards, shut down the machines that were torturing her, and then gently tried to bring her back to her feet and in control I would not summon an effing tornado on him as my first reaction, kinda rude.

4. I don't like how she toyed with Songbird's feelings, using his/its love for her to manipulate it to doing her bidding. And when she was done she killed him. Toying with people's feelings is a personal agro button for me.

5. Uh, I don't think he "allowed" them. It was three vs one, and they drowned him the moment he realized he was Comstock. He didn't even have time to process the information or change his mind or talk to her or anything. Yes, it was he who recommended smothering Comstock in the crib, but that was before he knew about their connection. He didn't have all of the information. Now, maybe he would have allowed Elizabeths to kill him after he processed the information since he does have quite a bit of guilt inside, but we will never know because they murdered him before he could give consent.

Either way, the relationship between Booker and Elizabeth is pretty one-sided. It is an extremely abusive relationship both physically and mentally, especially towards the last 25% of the game. Her transgressions are basically forgiven on the spot whereas she puts the screws on Bookers transgressions and uses it to manipulate him.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the relationship for...most of the game. But afterwhile enough is enough. Hell, Booker even says that he is afraid of her.

 

[dagens24]

The reason I went Alyx is that she has NOTHING but positive encouragement and positive things to say. She always made me feel badass and brilliant for the simplest things.

 

[Innegativeion]

*snip*

I'm'na take a WILD guess and say you have not played Bioshock Infinite all the through.

In so many words: nothing you said is really true of Elizabeth at all.

There are MAJOR spoiler reasons why her being in that tower is not like the damsel in distress trope at all, but here's some non-spoiler information to help with your other points;

-Booker has a military background, Liz has never held a gun

-Liz has powers that become extremely useful in and out of combat

-She'll save your life often by finding all sorts of essential supplies

-She is essential to Booker's character arc, not just supplementary to it

Here's some spoilery ones;

Spoiler: PLAY BIOSHOCK INFINITE. DO NOT PICK NUMBER 77. DON'T CLICK SPOILERS.

-The man coming to "rescue" her is the same one to imprison her, and also happens to be her father. No sexual objectification here.

-Booker needs Elizabeth more than she needs him, as she gives Booker his final redemption

-Elizabeth kills one of the game's more prominent antagonists on her own

-Elizabeth obtains godlike power by the end of the game

-Elizabeth kills the "dragon" songbird on her own, with ABSOLUTELY no help from Booker at all

 

[cojo965]

This question probably wouldn't be so one-sided in its answer if Alyx and Elizabeth had both been introduced around the same time. As it is, people are still coming off of the BioShock Infinite high and have a fresher version of Elizabeth in their minds than they do Alyx. Just a theory though.

I feel your theory is half right. I think the voting is so "one-sided" for two reasons.

One being Infinite just came out, where as the last Half-Life game was roughly six years ago. As such, the character of Elizabeth is much fresher than Alyx.

The other being that there's this prevailing movement, here on the Escapist, to hate, dismiss, or otherwise demean anything related to Half-Life. And this would include viewing Alyx as a "non-character".

Frankly, for me, both characters are so drastically different it's almost illogical to compare them.

One is the classic "damsel in distress", only with super powers.

The other is classic "touch-as-nails woman who never really got to be a woman".

The characterization and narrative tropes that surround each character type are not at all the same.

Apples and oranges people. Apples and Oranges. Besides, they're both fantastically written characters. A rarity in the gaming industry.

Why must we ruin that by pitting them both in a pissing contest?

I'm still going with Elizabeth though. Blue is my favorite color, and the shade they chose for her dress was simply breathtaking for me.

You liked the dress too? Oh good. Now I feel slightly less weird for thinking the same thing while playing.

XD

Who can't love that dress? Tbh though I liked both her dresses in the game.

OT: Flame shield up, I've never played any of the Half-Life games.

 

[Innegativeion]

*snip*

Reading this, I honestly don't believe that you've actually played it, or at least, maybe there's some alternate dimension warping going on here.

But whatever, I still like Elizabeth better than Vance. Personality wise eh... Alyx is perhaps a bit more independent.

From a strictly mechanical viewpoint I found Elizabeth worlds more useful. First thing I remember Vance doing when she became target-able by enemies is running out into a bunch of them and nabbing me a game over.

 

[Abomination]

Let's see, Liz can bend time and space and hands you money at regular intervals like a good hooker sho- like someone willing to assist her friend should.

But Alyx made Dog. Dog is awesome. Alyx wins.