Poll: Equal Rights for Smokers

[quiet_samurai]

Smokers do pay for healthcare. They actually pay more then a non-smoker because they are a higher risk for a payout.

Also your friends logic could be applied to people who eat fast food everyday for every meal and are seriously over weight. Or what about people that do dumb/daring things like bungie jump or skydive or drive race cars. All of these things are potential hazards that people do to themselves. If people didn't do harmful things to themselves then there would be no need for a medical system anyways.

 

[JWAN]

Nope. Smokers, heavy drinkers and really fat people shoulnt be treated equally. They should pay more.

Why should they pay more? They already have to if they want to have healthcare, why do they need to pay more on top of that?

Because they are the prime three strains on the NHS. Easy enough to understand.

No, because if they pay more because of their disposition, and they cover themselves why should they have to pay more?

 

[JWAN]

Smokers do pay for healthcare. They actually pay more then a non-smoker because they are a higher risk for a payout.

I agree, they pay enough to cover themselves, its like "Rich People" they pay a 35% tax on EVERYTHING, is that fair?

 

[JWAN]

How about this scenario, Black's have a higher chance of getting heart disease (in Europe and in North/ Central America) should we force Black people in the Americas and in Europe to eat a regimen of salads if they want coverage?

 

[razer17]

No, because if they pay more because of their disposition, and they cover themselves why should they have to pay more?

You realise I'm on about the NHS? Not private healthcare? I.E you dont pay for youroperations or anything...

I agree, they pay enough to cover themselves, its like "Rich People" they pay a 35% tax on EVERYTHING, is that fair?

Yes, paying higher tax because you're rich is fair. In britain you pay 50% tax on anything over £150,000

 

[THAC0]

Respond how? By giving us smokers an angry look then walking the hell away.
\

Why should i have to walk away. If you come around me blowing poison all over the place you are going to be told to GTFO.

Its not like Smokers go out of our way to ash in your drinks and blow smoke in your children's faces. We generally like to smoke in peace. \

Smokers smoke in the car with their kids, they smoke in their houses with their kids, that is child abuse and far from "smoking in peace".

Back in the days Restraunts had Smoking and non-Smoking area's whats wrong with that? Whats wrong with having A smoking bar, and a non smoking bar?
\

3 feet and a potted plant isn't going to keep a cloud of filth out of the "nonsmoking section". And the people who work in these places have the right to earn a living and not die of cancer because of the human smoke stacks sitting around stinking up the place.

Where i live it is illegal to smoke indoors and 20 feet from doors and open windows. So I tend to have to smoke in the sun in the middle of no where, and im fine with that. But then you Non-smokers come along and give me that stupid look as if im a baby killer, and that crosses the line. You came by me, and act like i should move and feel ashamed.\

sounds good.
you could always just quit if it bothers you so bad.[/quote]

 

[JWAN]

No, because if they pay more because of their disposition, and they cover themselves why should they have to pay more?

You realise I'm on about the NHS? Not private healthcare? I.E you dont pay for youroperations or anything...

I agree, they pay enough to cover themselves, its like "Rich People" they pay a 35% tax on EVERYTHING, is that fair?

Yes, paying higher tax because you're rich is fair. In britain you pay 50% tax on anything over £150,000

So that's not discriminatory at all to you? Because they landed a better job means that they should be forced to make up where other people aren't being held accountable for their actions?

(Im playing the devils advocate)

 

[roboosh]

That's like saying that self harmers shouldn't get help, or we should leave all people attempting suicide to die.

Wait... if they're committing suicide, don't they generally want to be left to die?

Yeah hehe just what I thought.

 

[razer17]

So that's not discriminatory at all to you? Because they landed a better job means that they should be forced to make up where other people aren't being held accountable for their actions?

(Im playing the devils advocate)

Yes, of course its discriminatory. However, contrary to poplar belief not all discrimination is bad. The governments needs to make money. Its better to tax the rich who have it than to tac the poor.

 

[JWAN]

Respond how? By giving us smokers an angry look then walking the hell away.
\

Why should i have to walk away. If you come around me blowing poison all over the place you are going to be told to GTFO.

Its not like Smokers go out of our way to ash in your drinks and blow smoke in your children's faces. We generally like to smoke in peace. \

Smokers smoke in the car with their kids, they smoke in their houses with their kids, that is child abuse and far from "smoking in peace".

Back in the days Restraunts had Smoking and non-Smoking area's whats wrong with that? Whats wrong with having A smoking bar, and a non smoking bar?
\

3 feet and a potted plant isn't going to keep a cloud of filth out of the "nonsmoking section". And the people who work in these places have the right to earn a living and not die of cancer because of the human smoke stacks sitting around stinking up the place.

Where i live it is illegal to smoke indoors and 20 feet from doors and open windows. So I tend to have to smoke in the sun in the middle of no where, and im fine with that. But then you Non-smokers come along and give me that stupid look as if im a baby killer, and that crosses the line. You came by me, and act like i should move and feel ashamed.\

sounds good.
you could always just quit if it bothers you so bad.

Anyway id rather get cancer then be fat. Smoking aint the #1 killer in america.

[/quote]
It's like an anti alcohol psycho working at a brewery. What the fuck were they expecting?
If the person can pay for the coverage, should they get coverage though. I think if they can pay for it they should get it.

 

[JWAN]

So that's not discriminatory at all to you? Because they landed a better job means that they should be forced to make up where other people aren't being held accountable for their actions?

(Im playing the devils advocate)

Yes, of course its discriminatory. However, contrary to poplar belief not all discrimination is bad. The governments needs to make money. Its better to tax the rich who have it than to tac the poor.

Ok, so 95% of the "rich" people are white can they file racism charges now?
And shouldent we hold ALL people accountable for their actions?

 

[razer17]

Ok, so 95% of the "rich" people are white can they file racism charges now?
And shouldent we hold ALL people accountable for their actions?

No, just because a certain demographic happens to hold a certain race doesnt make it racism. It would be if the tax was designed for white people.

 

[Jonatron]

In countries with no national health, the answer doesn't matter.

In countries WITH national health, however, you need to rephrase the question:
'Do smokers deserve to have their own money spent on their own self abuse?'
Of course they do! It's not your national health. It's not their national health. It's OUR national health.

As for anti-smoker law, which I first thought of when I saw the topic title... Bring it on. The less smokers there are the healthier we'll all be and this issue will remove itself with no smokers to offend.

 

[Treblaine]

Same standard of healthcare...

If you start discriminating due to smoking then the health-nazis will be chasing everyone down looking for an excuse to rip honest people off or deny them services. It starts with smoking, then it's fatty foods, then its lack of exercise, then its not enough fruit and fibre....

... too many video games? Might they add more to your premium/taxes depending on your gamer-score?

Before you know it stormtoopers will be frog marching all of us into stadiums at 5:30 on Sunday mornings to do mindless repetitive jumping jacks while some German guy on a podium shouts at you about needing to obtain "pure, strong bodies, free from toxins and fit, yah!" all for the fatherland... I mean the insurance companies, I mean the government auditing body... whatever.

Smoker's rights is a test case for the right to the individual to their OWN BODY.

But smokers need to learn to STEP OUTSIDE if they want to smoke.

 

[THAC0]

It's like an anti alcohol psycho working at a brewery.

or, a non smoker working in a restaurant that still allows smoking.

no one should have to get cancer because they are forced to work around smokers.

 

[DemonI81]

Nope. Smokers, heavy drinkers and really fat people shoulnt be treated equally. They should pay more.

Why should they pay more? They already have to if they want to have healthcare, why do they need to pay more on top of that?

Because they are the prime three strains on the NHS. Easy enough to understand.

I guess you failed to see the posts stating that smokers and obese people put less of a strain on your NHS than your standard person. It's on the previous page. I suggest reading it before posting more blatantly wrong information.

It's like an anti alcohol psycho working at a brewery.

or, a non smoker working in a restaurant that still allows smoking.

no one should have to get cancer because they are forced to work around smokers.

How are people forced to work at a certain place? Why do all the non-smoking advocates fail to realize they have a choice where they go, where they work?

 

[LockHeart]

So that's not discriminatory at all to you? Because they landed a better job means that they should be forced to make up where other people aren't being held accountable for their actions?

(Im playing the devils advocate)

Yes, of course its discriminatory. However, contrary to poplar belief not all discrimination is bad. The governments needs to make money. Its better to tax the rich who have it than to tac the poor.

Erm, governments need to 'make' money? You mean governments need to steal money. And no, they do not need to do this. Income tax is a disgusting relic of the Napoleonic Wars that never truly left and is maintained out of petty bureaucratic greed as a steady cash flow for politicians to throw at their pet projects, just like inheritance tax, windfall taxes and VAT. It really should be abolished and replaced with a Local Sales Tax that is levied whenever you buy something - if any tax is to be paid at all, it should be paid in proportion to what people consume, not what they earn.

/derailment

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest

 

[SmartIdiot]

Wait a minute! My friend here is suggesting that because some of the problems these smokers have that are connected to smoking are in need of less urgent attention than someone going to see the doctor over a sniffle and a sore throat, or someone in the emergency room on a Saturday night who's drank themselves into paralysis and need their stomachs pumping.

No. They don't deserve it. I myself smoke and I agree. We know it's bad for us. Just like people who drink themselves into a fucked up state know it's bad for them. There's no excuses now. If you harm yourself you get sent to the back of the queue. No excuses at all.

Think logically, if you know something is bad for you yet you continue to over indulge why the fuck should you waste the doctors time? Either deal with it or don't do it. Like I said, I smoke too. I wouldn't expect to be treated like everyone else. I've done this to myself so I'll wait at the back because I realise it's bad for me.

 

[Durahan2]

Say what you like, this topic is one on which I will not budge. I lost all my great-grandparents and my grandfather to lung cancer from smoking, and I happen to live in (and go to college in) cities where there are a lot of smokers, and second-hand smoke is just vile. I can't really protest if they're outside, less so on a cloudy day, but when they hang around in doorways (just outside) and the smoke drifts everywhere, it's just horrible.

Smokers have every right to smoke, to say what they can and can't do is...just plain un-American. People have freedoms and just because you don't like doesn't mean it'll get banned. So get over yourself, no really get your head out of your ass.

Ooooh, un-American. Well, fuck you. Firstly, I'm English, secondly, un-American is just a bullshit term used to describe anything you don't like.

Harsh, someone sounds like they're on the rag. It's their personal freedom to kill themselves. You have no right to say what people can and can't do. And no I use "un-american" as a term for when something blocks someone's right to do something. I don't really care about nationality, but when people think they're so entitled to tell people they can't do something then they really are full of themselves.

And before you pull the victim card, I lost two of my grandfathers from lung cancer and my step grandfather from liver cancer. It was their choice, but hey everyone has to die sometime right.

 

[Heretik555]

I'm a smoker
I would be willing to pay extra or something if it was lets say my lungs that had something wrong with them, or I had to have surgery for throat problems

But I dont think we should have to pay extra for things that arent related, like the sniffles.
side-note:
I'm very considerate of others views, if you dont like my smoking I will smoke outside, or not at all, but its when people start giving me shit, I mean someone told me 100% of smokers die from lung cancer and they are all clinically retarded, now tell me that doesnt make you facepalm a little , but the thing that annoys me is people talk about smokers having to pay more, but does that mean we should do the same to obese people? people who drink too much on a friday night? suicidal patients? I dunno =\