Poll: Evolution Yay or Nah?

Recommended Videos

AlexNora

New member
Mar 7, 2011
207
0
0
TKIR said:
AlexNora said:
as for evidence id look at all of it really closely because most of it is highly exaggerated if not blatant lies.
Please share what evidence you think is highly exaggerated or a blatant lie.
I just made a new topic if you'd like watch the video in the link provide in said topic.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.312134-Poll-Evolution-and-the-other-side


(I do not think all evolution is lies just the common examples I see tend to be, if you would like to discuses a topic you believe to be true send me a pm and well look at it together for as long as my bad attention can handle 3-4 days at most)
 

Sunrider

Add a beat to normality
Nov 16, 2009
1,064
0
0
There shouldn't be a "believe" in that sentence, and there shouldn't be a "No" either. It's a fact, and that's that.
 

BiscuitTrouser

Elite Member
May 19, 2008
2,860
0
41
Cerrida said:
Macro evolution is a theory, which means nothing can conclusively prove it. ("a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact. ")So far, all of the missing links and early humans, like Lucy, have been fake. (http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/origin_of_man_02.html) Carbon dating showing ages is unreliable.(http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/radiocarbondating.html ) The embryos shown in every textbook have been proven to be inaccurate and misleading (http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/embryos/Haeckel.html) So, no, I don't believe in macro-evolution. Micro-evolution, which concerns changes in a single population, is a proven fact.
These sources seem legit. Definately not crazy conspiracy theory websites. No sir. And definitely written by peer reviewed scientists in a journal of note and not a HTML website a class of 12 year olds could through together. No sir.

Yes I know evolution. Looking at the undeniable fact of micro evolution is it so hard to see that, as with darwins finches, when a species is split by geographical means it will continue to evolve away from its fellow members until genetic differences are so great they cannot breed. Thus macro evolution.
 

chronicfc

New member
Jun 1, 2011
328
0
0
Can't we stop this silly trifling? I mean the theory of evolution is about as proven as gravity. Saying "I don't believe in evolution; because I believe in God" is kind of like saying "I don't believe in gravity; because I want to fly". And I might as well say this: Creationists, micro and macro evolution is THE SAME THING, just because small changes can be shown as happening in small periods of time is proven to exist, therefore being detrimental to your belief system, doesn't mean you can reclassify it. Small changes happen over a relatively small period of time, so if those changes continue to take place then after a while you will have what you call "Macro evolution"
 

Snoozer

New member
Jun 8, 2011
132
0
0
It's sad that there is so much discussion about evolution. I believe the main reason for that is because it denies extremist religious beliefs. The creation was one of the last bastions of the "there just has to be a god" belief.
Most other scientific "theories" are equally or worse proven and no one argues about them. Hardly any one doubts that the earth circles around the sun and not the other way around (as the bible claims).
 

lawrie001

New member
Jun 23, 2010
56
0
0
webby said:
Cerrida said:
Macro evolution is a theory, which means nothing can conclusively prove it. ("a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact. ")So far, all of the missing links and early humans, like Lucy, have been fake. (http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/origin_of_man_02.html) Carbon dating showing ages is unreliable.(http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/radiocarbondating.html ) The embryos shown in every textbook have been proven to be inaccurate and misleading (http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/embryos/Haeckel.html) So, no, I don't believe in macro-evolution. Micro-evolution, which concerns changes in a single population, is a proven fact.
Macro evolution is many, many instances of micro evolution based on a single origins species that diversifies to a variety of areas and thus receives a variety of stimuli causing differing changes to the genome to be more or less beneficial and therefore allowing different mutations to remain in different areas. Then over the course of many, many generations these changes to the genome become significant enough to cause offshoots from the same species to become noticeable difference on a physical and not just genetic level and also results in said offshoots no longer being compatible to procreate.



This debate wearies me, every time the same arguments are passed around without a single bit of ground being given either way. So far comparisons to gravity, micro vs macro, carbon dating errors and "guided" evolution have all been brought up, maybe a new one will arrive soon.

Speaking of "guided" evolution, I've never fully understood this concept. Evolution effectively states that genetic mutations that benefit the species will survive to pass on their DNA whilst the others will die out. This effectively means that evolution is "guided" by the environment said species is evolving in. It seems odd to claim that this is actually false and that a divine being is actually guiding the evolution, but doing it in such a way that even evolutionary traits that are clearly derived from human interference are accounted for. That just doesn't seem logical.
Thats not strictly true, evolution isn't always just about adapting to the environment. You have three processes which make up evolution, natural selection (adapting to best suit ones habitat), genetic drift (random genetic mutations that eventually propergate throughout a population if there is no selection against them)and sexual selection (selective pressure to become more attractive). Whilst natural selection is a strong force within evolution, a lot of times a trait which does seem to be a major disadvantage gets pressured to stay by sexual selection. If we take the example of say a bird, this particular bird uses large colourful feathers to attract a mate, now natural selection would want the bird to be plain and brown so that it can survive better and avoid predators so lets say that gives the bird 100% chance of survival till maturity, however none of the opposite sex find it attractive, so it has 0% chance of mating so none of its genes are passed down. Sexual selection would go for a bird who has enormous bright multi-coloured feathers to better attract mates, so it has 100% chance of mating at maturity, however due to these feathers it gets preyed on very easily as it can not run very well and can not hide at all so it has 0% chance of surviving to maturity so again no genes passed down. Now a bird that has medium sized feathers and has some colouration can out run some predators and can hide somewhat has 50% chance of surviving to maturity and 50% of mating at maturity so it does pass its genes down. That example is simplified but it does ring true about the sort of struggle between natural and sexual selection.
 

commiedic

New member
Sep 2, 2010
177
0
0
If you accept evolution as a fact you are an idiot.

If you accept creation as a fact you are an idiot.

Neither can be proven so therefor neither are true. Though I like to lean towards evolution myself. I do think that there is more evidence in evolution then in creation. I though choose to accept neither as fact and I am ok with that.
 
Mar 9, 2010
2,722
0
0
It doesn't matter whether you accept it as fact or not, the beauty of fact is that it doesn't care about what you think.

But, for the record, it is a fact and, by default, I accept it.
 

Lhianon

New member
Aug 28, 2011
75
0
0
from my point of view, the theory of evolution seems to be the most reasonable explanation for the diversity of life on our planet.
however, for the origin of life itself you have to look at the theory of abiogenisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenisis

if one claims there must be a god because we are here on this planet, able to experience and observe the natural world and coming to logical conclusions about the universe, i have to remind this person there are millions of galxies, each filled with billions of stars, and a certain percentage of theese are yellow stars like ours, each one theoretically being able to suport a planet much like ours. there is a fairly high chance that somewhere out there is a planet on which you could find similar intelligent creatures descending from birds, squids, rats or hive-state insectoids, asking the same questions, but we are to far away to communicate with them.

i'd like to point out that the development of religion is actually a pretty good case for social evolution, we started out with localized animistic believs, unfit to rule a large body of people because "why should the oak spirit living 5 days of traveltime away be responsible for things hapening in my surroundings? so why do his priests try to push their rules on me?"
as the early high cultures became more than isolated city-states, priests noticed similaritys between the local animistic deities, for instance lightning wielding warrior deities, life giving mother deities often associated with water and so on. they unified theese localized spirits, adapting popular names, thus creating the first basis for larger religios organisations that were able to demonstrate to people that they essentially shared the same beliefs, convincing them to adapt similar rules. essentially, it made societys beyond tribes possible. examples for this would be the priest-kings of egypt and ancient babylon.
later, we saw the rising of the concept of a supreme ruler of deitys, making it easier to justify that one person ruled over a large amount of other persons, because he not only was the highest priest, he was the son of the ruler of the gods. there were exceptions to this, for instance jahwe, which was seen as supreme ruler of the semitic deitys, but not as the father of the king.
even later, the concept of "the one god" was developt in multible locations, for instance atenism in the eighteenth dynasty of egypt, which was discarded after one generation, 500 years thereafter a semitic tribe later called "jews" came to the understanding that jahwe was not only the ruler of the gods, but in fact the only god. this made it easier to distinguish themself from ocupieing foreigners, saving them from cultural assimilation into the babylonian empire (funny fact: mose is actually not a semitic name, it is the old egyptian word for "chield"). another example can be found during the punic wars in which a few philosphers claimed that zeus was the only, omnipotent god and that all other gods were just aspects of him (making it easier to unite the populus of the waring city-states to unite against persia), by the time christianity rose this was a commonly accepted belief in the helenistic area. this is by the way the reason god gets depicted as a lightning wielding old man with a white beard in western societies, the concept merged with the christian god rather quickly.
later, we saw a diversification of the monotheisthic religios system, from the more exclusive monotheism of the jews to the more open christianity, which also addapted the egyptian idea of a conscious afterlife, in distinction to the "sleeping" afterlife known in ancient judaism. theese two factors, being open to people that didnt share the same ancestors as yourself and the rather pleasant afterlife promised by it made it hugely attractive to people so that it became the roman state religion a few hundred years later, making it easier to govern a large, multi-cultural empire through cultural and religios assimilation.
in the 8th century a.d. the concept was improved even further by mohamed who called his new religion "islam", which did not only promised everything that christianity did, but also invented a shortcut to salvation, a thing we came to know as militant djihad (one has to remember that the so called "large djihad" actually is not about killing people, but being a good person within the rules of the qu'ran). essentially, mohamed gave his followers the choice of either being a good person or killing as much non-believers as possible while converting the wifes and children of said non-believers to islam. this is one of the major reasons this faith spread so quickly over a large area (the other being supreme military tactics and a for the time rather progressive society).
as demonstrated, unsuccessfull religions went extinct while more successfull replaced them and spread, much like unseccessfull animals got replaced by more succesfull. all of those were about the power to influence people to abide certain laws and ruling bodies, and that is the reason SOME religios people are rather uncomfortable with the idea of evolution and science in generell, because it essentially robs them the basis of their power to influence people.

p.s. sorry if i necro this thread, i am rather slow at typing :-(
 

TheIronRuler

New member
Mar 18, 2011
4,283
0
0
Evolution is a theory.
It has its flaws, but there isn't another theory competent enough to replace it.
If there would be a theory that manages to explain natural selection via mutation- what evolution succeeds in,and also manages to explain the origins of biological matter besides saying "Shit happens", then I would see that as the better theory and might accept it as proof.
I view it like Neutonic Physics - Till the Sum-Atomic paticles were discovered (And some time after that), there was no "Quantum Physics". Therefore I would like to see a theory that could replace Evolution - and be competent enough to explain the origins of life. If a scientist manages to explain the matter in the confines of the theory of Evolution, I will accept it as fact but at the moment it's a theory that can use some improvements.
Yes, Natural selection due to mutation occures- this is evolution. Whether it may be man evolving from Apes or The Aids virus mutating after every new host - I just want it to explain the origins of life. Since at the moment it can't, but there is no other sane alternative, I am forced to look at Evolution as fact.
 

phantasmalWordsmith

New member
Oct 5, 2010
911
0
0
I'm a Darwinian Christian, so I believe in Guided Evolution. Evolution makes sense but it kind of clashes with my christian beliefs which are pretty much hard wired into my psyche and this clash troubled me till I learned about Darwinian Christianity (I was 12) I learned it off a badge on the back of a car, asked my dad what that was, he told me and I've pretty much just followed that train of thought.
 

TheIronRuler

New member
Mar 18, 2011
4,283
0
0
Christopher N said:
I'm a Darwinian Christian, so I believe in Guided Evolution. Evolution makes sense but it kind of clashes with my christian beliefs which are pretty much hard wired into my psyche and this clash troubled me till I learned about Darwinian Christianity (I was 12) I learned it off a badge on the back of a car, asked my dad what that was, he told me and I've pretty much just followed that train of thought.
What is a Darwinian Christian?
 

Lukeje

New member
Feb 6, 2008
4,048
0
0
I don't accept it as a fact. I accept it as a theory given current scientific evidence. However unlikely it is, fossils may have just been put there by the FSM to fuck with us.
 

phantasmalWordsmith

New member
Oct 5, 2010
911
0
0
TheIronRuler said:
Christopher N said:
I'm a Darwinian Christian, so I believe in Guided Evolution. Evolution makes sense but it kind of clashes with my christian beliefs which are pretty much hard wired into my psyche and this clash troubled me till I learned about Darwinian Christianity (I was 12) I learned it off a badge on the back of a car, asked my dad what that was, he told me and I've pretty much just followed that train of thought.
What is a Darwinian Christian?
Good question. I didn't look too far into it and just formulated my own opinions and my own beliefs. My belief is basically that God placed the original bacteria that all life on this planet originated and just poked and proded it in the right direction. If you really want to know about it, I suggest you consult Google or whatever