Poll: Fake Geek Girl Meme
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On one hand, it happens from time to time. Geek stuff has become, "Cool", and some people exaggerate there affinity for the various genres purely for a perceived social status, or, much worse, in an attempt to gain popularity by being a, "Big fish in a small pond", e.g., attractive girl who doesn't want to compete with really popular girl, and wants to attract geeks she feels she can manipulate more easily. In this realm of "posers", guys are just as bad as girls. Girls are less prone towards geeky media, however, so guys tend to exaggerate there affinity with a RELATED piece of media (I love science fiction...oh, and math...uhh...yeah, I totally love math. All those...numbers...), while more girls fake an affinity for something where they have no other geeky media to fall back on. Hypothetically, both reflect just as poorly on the individual, but faking an interest entirely is more grating to some.
On the other, more important hand, this sort of thing is WAY more rare then people want to admit. Geek-dom is, deep to its core, an inclusive subculture. It is a group that accepts you, warts and all, if you have a passion for any of those things that exist in a phase space outside of conventional reality. It is a culture to be proud of, but it is the opposite of exclusive. It is fundamentally inclusive. Noob at Call of Duty? Awesome, more people to play with, and I have a better K/D ratio while you are honing your skills. Just started playing Zelda last year? Hey, I envy your ability to see the series with fresh eyes. Passionate about a comic that you have just read 5 issues of? You know what, maybe you see the comic from a perspective I havn't considered because these characters have become so set in stone in my head over time. Is part of the motivation for joining this culture the attention? SO WHAT? How many male geeks have used there hobbies to start and continue their own friendships with people that maybe they would have otherwise been awkward around? So a girl has never done something geeky before, but wants to try, and wants to use that pasttime to socialize with people like me. AWESOME! The opportunity to share something I love with a girl who is interested in my nerdy interests sounds like my idea of an awesome Saturday night. Wheres the problem?
Also, I can't insult that girl in the meme. Shes kinda adorable.
On the other, more important hand, this sort of thing is WAY more rare then people want to admit. Geek-dom is, deep to its core, an inclusive subculture. It is a group that accepts you, warts and all, if you have a passion for any of those things that exist in a phase space outside of conventional reality. It is a culture to be proud of, but it is the opposite of exclusive. It is fundamentally inclusive. Noob at Call of Duty? Awesome, more people to play with, and I have a better K/D ratio while you are honing your skills. Just started playing Zelda last year? Hey, I envy your ability to see the series with fresh eyes. Passionate about a comic that you have just read 5 issues of? You know what, maybe you see the comic from a perspective I havn't considered because these characters have become so set in stone in my head over time. Is part of the motivation for joining this culture the attention? SO WHAT? How many male geeks have used there hobbies to start and continue their own friendships with people that maybe they would have otherwise been awkward around? So a girl has never done something geeky before, but wants to try, and wants to use that pasttime to socialize with people like me. AWESOME! The opportunity to share something I love with a girl who is interested in my nerdy interests sounds like my idea of an awesome Saturday night. Wheres the problem?
Also, I can't insult that girl in the meme. Shes kinda adorable.
... Long thread, CBA to read all, but based off the first few posts (pardon me if this has been said already)...
... but did we not have this whole discussion, albeit in microcosm, over the whole Ryan Perez/Felicia Day fiasco, where the thread essentially turned into a 'Felicia Day has done X/Y/Z' to 'contribute to gaming Vs. 'She only does that because she wants the geek/nerd/virgin $$$ and is a faker' arguement?
If so... go dig that up
... but did we not have this whole discussion, albeit in microcosm, over the whole Ryan Perez/Felicia Day fiasco, where the thread essentially turned into a 'Felicia Day has done X/Y/Z' to 'contribute to gaming Vs. 'She only does that because she wants the geek/nerd/virgin $$$ and is a faker' arguement?
If so... go dig that up
Ive seen such a thing, I think maybe it comes from a paranoia from guys who have spent a good time becoming jaded from interacting with "Girls" all the time across a screen you know the old sayings.
-No Girls on the Internet
-Girls Don't Play Games
-Girls Don't Read Comics
None of it really true, but its such a widely held belief that female nerds are subject (unfairly) to immediate scrutiny by the guys who believe these things.
-No Girls on the Internet
-Girls Don't Play Games
-Girls Don't Read Comics
None of it really true, but its such a widely held belief that female nerds are subject (unfairly) to immediate scrutiny by the guys who believe these things.
Sounds like a 'no true Scotsman' thing to me. Probably because the male faction is worried about losing power when a female faction comes in. Ranking within a sub-culture like this always strikes me as odd and ultimately a way to try to get and maintain power. Course I could also just say 'geek dick waving contest' which is a fairly accurate description and also funny. Hum, what's the female equivalent to that, or the gender neutral version?
Of course not. "Adorable" Is a pretty shallow compliment. But if you acknowledge that it is completely shallow, and irrelevant in the big picture, no harm done. Shes cute to look at. Recognizing that is human nature. If I were to play a game or watch a movie with her, id get over that fact real quick, and just enjoy a shared interest like normal human beings.Sober Thal said:
Yay! Hey Ash, Whatcha Playing is AWESOME! Also, I hesitate to say she is attractive because she gets it constantly but yeah, she is an attractive girl. Especially after she did the series for a while, grew up a bit and started looking less boyish. The fact that she makes hilarious and sometimes insightful videos is much more important but hey, credit where due.
Also, I think that with hyper-sexualized women in a lot of geeky media, real life geek girls who are attractive, but also look like normal human beings, end up coming across as extra-attractive. Anyone else notice that?
Also, Ico may be a good game, and some sexist overtones may be mostly to semi-accidental, but hey...it is still kinda sexist. Nothings perfect. Don't dismiss the game for it, or assume that pointing out the sexism means that people are trying to dismiss it. You can validly criticize something that still has merit.
I don't hate on anyone for being less of a level of nerdiness than me. What I do hate is people pretending to be more of a nerd or a geek to garner attention. Exhibit A: I have a friend who goes around saying she's a "huge Marvel Comics nerd" when really she thought Wolverine was hot in the X-Men movies. Never read a comic book in her life. Or another who says "I'm such a HUGE gamer" when she almost never turns on any of her consoles, none of which she bought herself. She asks me what to buy, then buys them, but never even touches most of them. She just wants to tell the boys she owns them. That does bother me, because the reasons they say it is to attract guys, but when they do get a guy and the guy has a gaming party all they do is whine and mope, or they will be confused when I bring up stuff from comics. I'm not going to judge anyone because they're a casual gamer or like comic book movies! That's way more nerdiness than many other girls have.
It would be the same if it was about sports, though. I hate the whole concept of pretending to be something else just to attract the opposite sex. I dunno, maybe it's because I'm sick of the skeptical looks guys give me when I talk about video games. Like because I wear make-up and have boobs I can't back up what I say. I mean, usually they believe me when I get to the "I just wanted the freaking Alduin statue" or "I own every collectors edition of Halo. That Noble Team statue from the legendary edition is epic." I feel so dumb for having to lay it on so thick, though.
It would be the same if it was about sports, though. I hate the whole concept of pretending to be something else just to attract the opposite sex. I dunno, maybe it's because I'm sick of the skeptical looks guys give me when I talk about video games. Like because I wear make-up and have boobs I can't back up what I say. I mean, usually they believe me when I get to the "I just wanted the freaking Alduin statue" or "I own every collectors edition of Halo. That Noble Team statue from the legendary edition is epic." I feel so dumb for having to lay it on so thick, though.
I'm not sure that this is a misogynist thing. With any subculture (in this case, "geek" and "nerd") is that, eventually, people will try to gain entry or affiliation with said group through fashion or similar socio-economic ties. And, in most cases, the elements introduced by these "new-comers" nearly always brings with it something that is counter to what the original subculture was based in.
There's several examples of co-opting subcultures throughout history. Punk gets adopted into the mainstream MTV community and bands like Good Charlotte and Blink 182 are born. Skinhead subculture, originally tied to working class English communities with a love of reggae and dancehall, was adopted and distorted by fascist neo-nazis. Metalheads who groove on Black Sabbath had to cringe when bands like Poison are labeled "metal".
I fully believe in "gatekeepers" of subculture. While I don't think they should be overt dicks about it, I also recognize that their absence would mean assimilation would occur that much quicker. Unfortunately, resistance is futile and it's only a matter of time before the subculture things you love get changed to suit the needs of the many.
Parting clip...some words about posers from SLC Punk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nwGndfR4l4
There's several examples of co-opting subcultures throughout history. Punk gets adopted into the mainstream MTV community and bands like Good Charlotte and Blink 182 are born. Skinhead subculture, originally tied to working class English communities with a love of reggae and dancehall, was adopted and distorted by fascist neo-nazis. Metalheads who groove on Black Sabbath had to cringe when bands like Poison are labeled "metal".
I fully believe in "gatekeepers" of subculture. While I don't think they should be overt dicks about it, I also recognize that their absence would mean assimilation would occur that much quicker. Unfortunately, resistance is futile and it's only a matter of time before the subculture things you love get changed to suit the needs of the many.
Parting clip...some words about posers from SLC Punk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nwGndfR4l4
I swear, sometimes I wonder if people actually know what TV sitcoms are. You think Cheers is an accurate portrayal of a bar? Frasier is a real life radio personality? Rural Illinois is just like Roseanne? Spin City is a political drama? Coach is like actual college athletics? That a family on the planet bears any resemblance to the one on Married With Children? It's all stereotypes and broad generalizations. They're easy jokes told in easy ways in front of a live audience prepped to be ready to laugh at just about anything. That's how these shows are, and they're their own art form. They are comforting and you either like them or you don't. You can usually tell in about five minutes.Daveman said:
FYI, all the real sitcom nerds watch Golden Girls, anyways. Bea Arthur FTW.
it also happens to men, but not as often.
go onto Open Book and type in "such a geek" and see for yourself.
go onto Open Book and type in "such a geek" and see for yourself.
OK, so you know a few girls who do this. I still don't think you could judge anyone else's motives for being at a convention, even if they are wearing clothing that looks more like dental floss. Similarly, can you not be a geek AND an attention seeker? Exhibit A: Your stormtrooper shenanigans?dogstile said:
However, the thing I can't understand is openly rating women out of ten - it makes my stomach turn. It's so degrading there aren't words for it. And more so when you imply that women are aware of their 'score' and attempt to go places where they'll be higher. That's just... well, ridiculous.
I don't like fakers, but I personally don't actually know any. Most of my friends who are girls are actually as geeky as I am, if not more so in some areas. I think the geek culture reeks of the "one true Scotsman" fallacy though. You are not a true geek unless you have "insert read/played/watched this specific series here", frankly we should get over it.
I think people are getting far too into this. It was mainly a jab at the tumblr types who say they're geek/nerd/gamer culture but when comes into a practical situation they don't know anything about it. Not the EURGH WOMEN DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GAMING gender stereotyping that people are claiming.
huh. and here i thought that "geek culture" consisted for a large part of "dont give a damn about society view on your hobbies, just do them".
guess a lot has changed over the past years..... posers.....
let me give you a hint, if someone insults you - ignore them. dont go flailing your arms and shouting "awwwwgh, he called me a mean poopy head! MOOOOOM!"
just because some people want to have their "elite club" doesnt mean you should feel insulted. every medium has its own group of idiots trying to create an elite club. why? f**** if i know, you ask me, i want as many people as possible sharing my hobby, makes for interesting conversations.....
and frankly, insults like "you no true geek!" are f***** pathetic, so i fail why anyone would react to that.
guess a lot has changed over the past years..... posers.....
let me give you a hint, if someone insults you - ignore them. dont go flailing your arms and shouting "awwwwgh, he called me a mean poopy head! MOOOOOM!"
just because some people want to have their "elite club" doesnt mean you should feel insulted. every medium has its own group of idiots trying to create an elite club. why? f**** if i know, you ask me, i want as many people as possible sharing my hobby, makes for interesting conversations.....
and frankly, insults like "you no true geek!" are f***** pathetic, so i fail why anyone would react to that.
Eh? I don't understand. Are you sure quoted the right person?Rainboq said:Hjalmar Fryklund said:
I'm sorry, but that's a pack of lies. I grew up loving science, math, movies and video games, I grew up playing Magic The Gathering, D&D and Warhammer. I've read the Lord Of the Rings, Issac Asimov and Arthur C. Clark. I read both Marvel and DC comics. By any logical definition, I fit the term nerd. And guess what, I have two x chromosomes. Women being nerds and geeks is not a derivation of a norm. There's Ada Lovelace, the worlds first programmer, Marie Curie, nobel prize winning physicist, I could go on for hours. A nerd is a type of person, and the term is not defined by sex or gender.
EDIT: To clarify, you are responding to a point I didn't make.
I haven't watched any of those shows because I'm British and we don't get them over here and we have our own better ones (BEWARE, OPINION). Well, I've watched Frasier and I also thought that was pretty rubbish but the point is I'm a geek, not a radio personality. I therefore don't get insulted by the stereotypes portrayed in that. Maybe radio personalities hate Frasier because they are insulted by the way they're presented, though I'm not entirely sure what they'd find insulting about being likened to Frasier.zelda2fanboy said:
I also feel sad that you think that's just what a sitcom is and that's all they can be. If you like geeky stuff and don't want every character to be an insulting stereotype and also want it to be funny and clever then I highly recommend Spaced.
Blech. I don't understand this fascination with who is or is not a "real" geek. Even if someone decides to leverage their physical attractiveness and pretend to be a member of a niche group for other purposes, so what? They get the attention to push towards whatever goal they're working towards and other people get their eye candy. Everyone wins.
I'm not saying that everyone wearing the equivalent of dental floss is doing it for attention, its just that when somebody is, its usually quite easy to spot. Of course you can be a geek and an attention seeker, i'm just saying it's possible for one to not be. I'm not going to assume somebody is a geek because they've dressed in a skimpy outfit.Hollyday said:OK, so you know a few girls who do this. I still don't think you could judge anyone else's motives for being at a convention, even if they are wearing clothing that looks more like dental floss. Similarly, can you not be a geek AND an attention seeker? Exhibit A: Your stormtrooper shenanigans?dogstile said:
However, the thing I can't understand is openly rating women out of ten - it makes my stomach turn. It's so degrading there aren't words for it. And more so when you imply that women are aware of their 'score' and attempt to go places where they'll be higher. That's just... well, ridiculous.
Rating is horrible though, I will agree. Some of my most awkward conversations have started with "Dan, if you did the rating thing, what would mine be?" because of how self aware the person is at the time. Ugh, terrible stuff.