Poll: Gay marriage- your thoughts?
- Thread starter Escapefromwhatever
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I was trying to be neutral-ish, as I am supposed to be leading the debate, but f**k it. I whipped out my Holy Bible, which has a different translation than yours (that's part of the problem too, things get lost in translation), and I read those specific lines. From what I have studied of The Holy Bible, it hates cheating. So maybe lots of men leaving their wives and vice-versa to have random sex with others of the same sex, or even of the opposite sex, is wrong, but a pure, loving relationship between two people of the same sex is not equal to that. According to what I have seen in The Holy Bible, God dislikes it when people who leave each other without permission give in to lust moreso than anybody could argue that he hates homosexuality, which my interpretation of The Holy Bible leads me to believe he doesn't. I know you could quote other things, but as I said earlier, we could do that forever. Just please, if you quote from The Holy Bible, please relate the information to us and provide reasons for it, rather than just relaying it. Faith is fine, but blind faith, not so much.nyctoftero said:
This, pretty much.jad4400 said:
Something about using the word "marriage" in that situations seems... off.
The thing is, is that marriage is defined as a " special bond performed by the church to forge a union of a single man with a single woman,to share in all aspects of life civil or religious." so I mean call it something else i guess, i personally have no problem against it but also think of it this way, it is the priests who have to perform the ceremony and if they don't feel comfortable with it why should they be forced by law to do so.
Actually (and sorry to go over old hash--things have grown in two hours) the course outlined above seems to be more for an early elementary school type of classroom, with pictures of men and women holding hands, and until about the sixth/seventh grade (i.e. junior high) children aren't capable of the critical thinking you're describing, the attributing things to themselves. until then it's basically rote memorization, so the kids would have the knowledge that same-sex couples exist in much the same way they know the state capitals, or 1+1=2.Mr0llivand3r said:
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and i don't have the post to quote, but really, going to the bible? in a discussion about the constitutional rights of citizens in a country where the church and state exist in separation?
maybe you'd like to see another scripture, said by the man Jesus himself.
"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"
Matthew 22:21
for those who need to rely on a pastor to tell them what to understand on Sundays, this means that you are to obey the laws of government with what the government gives you to obey them with (i.e. votes) and obey your phony bologna god's laws with what your phony bologna god gives you to obey him/her with (meaningless prattle before you go to bed/when you wake up/at sports events)
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and to prattle on myself a little, god didn't write the bible, even rational christians understand that. editors wrote the bible we know today, and editors are some of the most cold-hearted bastardious creatures ever to walk the face of the earth. drunks, too. (speaking from professional experience, i'm an editor myself)
burning bushes can't write, only ignite.
(i think i've said enough meaningless flamboyant stuff for my second post)
Hmmm... It seems that everything that could be said has been said. For the most part, anyway.None-the-less, I'm going to put in my two cents.
I'm a born-again Christian and I believe gay marriage to be wrong but I see no reason to stop homosexuals from getting married. I believe it to be wrong, so I'm not going to get married to a man. What anyone else does is entirely up to them. Despite the reputation Christians have gotten on this topic, and much of that reputation is well earned, I am also for equal rights. (Can't speak for all Christians, of course.) Personally, I think it should be legalized. Christianity is about a choice. I can't, and won't try, to make you conform to what we're selling.
One thing that could happen that I don't want to is taking away a pastor's right to not marry a couple based on moral issues. My dad is a pastor and he believes it's wrong for two men/women to get married so he won't marry them together. The (Canadian) government proposed that pastor's shouldn't have the right to deny marriage to a couple if it's not a man marrying a woman. I think that's bullshit. If a pastor thinks it's wrong, he should be allowed to say no. Believe me, there are plenty of pastors out there that will marry a gay couple, no problem.
So I'm pro legalizing gay marriage but I'm against gay marriage. Either way, I have nothing against gay people. I've known a few and, even if they were noticably gay, find them no diferent than the straight people I know. People are people. If I'm going to dislike you, it's because I don't get along with you. Not because of sexual orientation, among other things.
I'm a born-again Christian and I believe gay marriage to be wrong but I see no reason to stop homosexuals from getting married. I believe it to be wrong, so I'm not going to get married to a man. What anyone else does is entirely up to them. Despite the reputation Christians have gotten on this topic, and much of that reputation is well earned, I am also for equal rights. (Can't speak for all Christians, of course.) Personally, I think it should be legalized. Christianity is about a choice. I can't, and won't try, to make you conform to what we're selling.
One thing that could happen that I don't want to is taking away a pastor's right to not marry a couple based on moral issues. My dad is a pastor and he believes it's wrong for two men/women to get married so he won't marry them together. The (Canadian) government proposed that pastor's shouldn't have the right to deny marriage to a couple if it's not a man marrying a woman. I think that's bullshit. If a pastor thinks it's wrong, he should be allowed to say no. Believe me, there are plenty of pastors out there that will marry a gay couple, no problem.
So I'm pro legalizing gay marriage but I'm against gay marriage. Either way, I have nothing against gay people. I've known a few and, even if they were noticably gay, find them no diferent than the straight people I know. People are people. If I'm going to dislike you, it's because I don't get along with you. Not because of sexual orientation, among other things.
Goverments always seem to do things the wrong way. Because see, now it is hurting someone, and it's only giving people more fuel for hate. They shouldn't force pastors to marry gay couples if they personally object, I agree with that. I'm sure there aren't many, but I know that there are pastors out there who agree to marry gay couples. There's no need to force everyone to do it.Sweep117 said:
Exactly. Fortunetly, it hasn't come to that. At least, not yet anyway. And you're right. There aren't many pastors who would marry a gay couple but they're out there. I know of a few churches that accept homosexuality too. More and more options are opening up for gay couples. Don't limit the rights of one group of people to expand the rights of another.arcainia said:
Or they could do what the law up here has done?
You can get married (yes, they use the word MARRIED) at a church, or through government institution. If the church does not wish to perform the ceremony it's not done. It is not actually the minister's decision in protestant churches. The minister is an employee of the church, and goes by what the church says.
If a specific religious institution does not wish to perform said marriage, they are not legally obligated to.
See? Everybody wins. Nobody leaves with their rights violated.
People will use the word "married" to describe their union, whether it's technically a "marriage" or not. There's no battle to be won here.
Also, why is the word "marriage" so important? Why, that's quite simple. By writing off homosexuals you are defining them as "second class" or less important. You can argue, "Oh but it'll be equal!" all you want, but the sad fact remains. It won't be equal. Just separate.
You can get married (yes, they use the word MARRIED) at a church, or through government institution. If the church does not wish to perform the ceremony it's not done. It is not actually the minister's decision in protestant churches. The minister is an employee of the church, and goes by what the church says.
If a specific religious institution does not wish to perform said marriage, they are not legally obligated to.
See? Everybody wins. Nobody leaves with their rights violated.
People will use the word "married" to describe their union, whether it's technically a "marriage" or not. There's no battle to be won here.
Also, why is the word "marriage" so important? Why, that's quite simple. By writing off homosexuals you are defining them as "second class" or less important. You can argue, "Oh but it'll be equal!" all you want, but the sad fact remains. It won't be equal. Just separate.
I am indifferent, but will vote for it. Here is my reasoning:
1. I am not gay, this does not affect me.
2. Marriges, the ones that can be made legal, are matters of state and not religion. This does not affect my faith.
3. We cannot change the term from marrige without changing it for everyone, because separate institutions cannot be kept as equal. This was the final determination that ended segregation in the 60's, I think.
So there.
1. I am not gay, this does not affect me.
2. Marriges, the ones that can be made legal, are matters of state and not religion. This does not affect my faith.
3. We cannot change the term from marrige without changing it for everyone, because separate institutions cannot be kept as equal. This was the final determination that ended segregation in the 60's, I think.
So there.
I am all for people getting married to whomever they want, we are supposed to be teaching our (whomever has) kids tolerance but once certain religions get involved all bets are off. Personally I would like to see a larger population be able to be married.
You got it right. Thank you for the compliment, though most people who meet me are impressed in general.arcainia said:
I'm fairly sure that I'm a minority on that school of thought, even in my large group of Christian friends. One thing that saddens me is that many religeous figures and groups turn near-radical in opposing things like gay marriage. If they want to believe it's wrong, I'm fine with that. Just don't go nuts and paint a bad picture of every Christian. I don't want to be seen as the same as them.
