Poll: Gay marriage- your thoughts?

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Durahan2

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*cracks typeing fingers* Oh where to start heh... I guess I'll list and give my 2cents on each one.

1. "Don't call gay marrage, marrage." Oh yeah samething as seprate but equal thing, ya know but it'll work out this time. Yeah right XD.

2. "Gay couples have negitive effects on the kids they raised." Ok there is no study that shows this. None. Besides there is no way, that genders of the parents would make a difference it's all just moral crusadeing.

3....blah blah blah. It's just hypocritical to call us a free nation and have seperation from church and state when chruch morals effect our laws. Like gay marrage ban. If we ever want to be called a free nation we need to cast off these crazy notions and laws, and put them where they belong in the homes of people. Not on a document of law.
 

latenightapplepie

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confernal said:
to dramtically change an primary role in society like that could easily have untold conquences ... But I am saying that this kind of rearing of childern could affect them emotionally or mentally.
I understand you're point of view. Really I do. But the fact that we permit parents of low IQ, or who are disabled in some way, or who have terminal cancer, or who in some way cannot provide adequate parenting for their children in such a way that we know that there are serious consequence, how on earth can we not let homosexual couples not be able to parent children because there could be some 'untold' consequences?
 

Goldbling

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Jenny Creed said:
It's ridiculous that we still have legal unions and religious ones intertwined several hundred years after the supposed divorce of church and state. Fix that, and the religious folks can keep their ceremonies gay free while gays can enjoy the legal status of marriage. Everyone's happy, and homosexuals can continue to try to be accepted as human beings.
You seemed to have generalized religious people there...
 

RagnorakTres

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I see no problem with gay marriage. I'm not going to go yell at my senator if he doesn't pass a law supporting it, but I will if he passes a law banning it. "We hold these truths to be self-evident..." and so on, substituting "people" for "men."
 

traceur_

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they can do what they want, it's not like it would bring the apocalypse with nazis riding dinosaurs and shit, just because it's 2 guys or 2 chicks rather than 1 guy and 1 chick, it's no different.

EDIT: also with the issues of kids potentially being emotionally or mentally screwed up blah blah blah, seriously how is this an argument? If we don't let gay people have kids because of the "screwed up kids" argument, then shouldn't we ban retards from having kids? no offense intended to the mentally challenged, but having mentally challenged parents would certainly be worse than 2 gay people having kids.
(seriously don't flame me because of that, i meant no offense to any who are mentally challenged, or any of you who may have mentally challenged parents)
 

Chibz

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Bright_Raven said:
Marriage is a religious notion, a union between a man and a woman.
No, it's not. In this day and age, marriage is a purely secular affair. The fancy wedding ceremony, having the minister and all your loved ones present. That's all butter.

Very, very expensive butter. In fact, you don't even need ANY of that nonsense. You can (with your spouse) contact the justice of the peace and sign the only thing that matters in regards to whether or not you are married.

The paper that is discretely signed at the end of every marriage ceremony.

everyone is happy, church and state are separate
The inherit arrogance of modern-day Christianity astounds me. Marriage wasn't originally a strictly-christian affair. It's not a strictly-christian affair NOW. Never has been, never will be.

Stop.
Claiming.
It.
As.
Your.
OWN!

Doing this is incredibly short sighted, and ignorant. Recognize that 'most every culture that ever existed at one point in time created a concept similar or identical to marriage. Sometimes even called the same thing.

can marry whomever they chose (not that love is a choice). And the only people who can get ?married? are the religious people who believe in it.
Or you can read my previous post, and see the logical solution which won't be seen as handing "marriage" right over to the Christian right. Oh, and everyone will refer to it as marriage anyways.

The only people not happy with this arrangement are evil or stupid... OK, who did I piss off now?
Also, avoid ad hominem.
 

BubbleGumSnareDrum

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Dec 24, 2008
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Jenny Creed said:
It's ridiculous that we still have legal unions and religious ones intertwined several hundred years after the supposed divorce of church and state. Fix that, and the religious folks can keep their ceremonies gay free while gays can enjoy the legal status of marriage. Everyone's happy, and homosexuals can continue to try to be accepted as human beings.
This. Anyone who disagrees doesn't really have a solid grasp of what liberty means.
 

Skalman

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Jul 29, 2008
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Can't possibly even begin to care. I don't know them, they can do whatever the hell they want.
 

sanzo

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Chibz said:
To everyone who stated that every religion is against homosexual marriage, you are far from the truth. The Church of Satan has been for gay marriages for as long as I can remember (and is probably the longest running religious supporter of it). Also, within a two hour drive of my current location, there are two churches who perform same-sex marriages (same-sex marriage, already legalized HERE. Federally, in fact)

Do your research.

12 reasons why gay marriage should be banned:

1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.

2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can't legally get married because the world needs more children.

3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.

5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are property, blacks can't marry whites, and divorce is illegal.

6. Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.

7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

10. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.

11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to things like cars or a longer lifespan.

12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "separate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages for gays and lesbians will.
Wow, I haven't read sarcasm like that in a long time. Thanks for the laugh
 

Chibz

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Bright_Raven that was more directed to the masses of Christians who try to claim ownership of the concept of marriage than to you, personally.

Sorry about any confusion that might have ensued due to my poorly worded point.
 

Ladie Au Pair

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Jan 27, 2009
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I believe that there should be a separation of church and state. Marriage is not defined as a union between the man and in a women by our government, but by some's religion. In addition marriage should be about love, devotion and commitment. It is NO ONES place to tell another who they can and cannot love. There for to keep the separation of church and state, and to ensure that everyone can full fill their inalienable right of the persuit of happiness, gays should be allowed to marry.
 

cuddly_tomato

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Assassinator said:
If you don't like gay marriage, that's fine, but don't force your beleifs on others. They're not facts, they're personal opinions, so don't treat them like facts. Hence why I'm not against polygamous marriages as well. If it makes them happy, all parties are concenting, I see no reason to stop them.
Marriage is a bit different. It is basically a legal, or chattel agreement between two parties. Although to some it is some kind of sacred holy thing legally it is simply a contract that two peoples assets and interests become one. It is for this reason gay marriage should be allowed, because gays have just as much right to the protection and advantage marriges affords as straights do. But this is the reason why it shouldn't be permitted for polygamists, I mean, what do you say if one of the wifes dies? Does the husband get all her stuff? Or do you divvy it up? And what if he dies and leaves behind three wives? You still got the same legal shit to deal with.
 

Samoftherocks

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Oct 4, 2008
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The State sanctified "marriage" is a contract signed by two consenting adults. This legal document cannot be denied to a group of Americans simply because of the gender of the two seeking the union of such a document. Prop 8 stated only that the word "marriage" be defined as a "union between a man and a woman". This, however, does nothing to deny the pursuit of equal rights under a different term, or seeking legislature to equalize civil unions with the rights associated with marriage.

If this were simply a matter of terminology, I truly believe we would see less of an issue raised by the gay community. It is, however, a matter of equality and civil rights that this be fought in the courts. The majority of CA voters who passed Prop 8 imposed their will on the Constitution (as it is a right), however, created an unconstitutional, yet now legal differentiation between the hetero and homosexual communities, by labeling the gay community as unfit or unworthy to receive equal rights in marriage. The Yes on 8 campaign painted pictures that the failure to pass the proposition would cause the fall of morals and values, be a breach of Religious Freedoms (no kidding, I saw the signs in Sacto), and would open the door to the inevitable legalization of ludacris and harmful fetishes such as pedophilia and beastiality.

The Pro 8's chose fear, sex, and children to defend a platform which would only serve to perpetuate greater midunderstanding about the gay community as a whole. Many whom I have spoken to refer to the "Gay Agenda" and the disingenuous ad campaign targeting the parents of elementary age kids that insinuated that their children would be exposed to some kind of force that would then cause them to possibly become gay. This has been their platform the whole time! "Allow the gays to marry, and more people will become gay!" This is, of course, ridiculous! Having sex is a choice, but chosing who are going to be attracted to is not. If you are able to fall in love with someone of your gender, and you seek a living partnership with them, then any American should be entitled to that.

The three arguements that surface against gay marriage are immaterial when presented in front of any court. God does not speak for the State, nor does the State speak for God. Breeding is not legally obligated to be take place by married couples. Your personal opinion of gays and whether you like it or not is purely subjective opinion, not to be taken as fact or legal doctrine.

All of this said, the religious estalishment has already set itself up for failure. By hijacking the word "marriage" in the CA state constitution, they have disallowed themselves any leverage to continue the "seperate but equal" policy of civil unions. Rights cannot be denied to the people should they be sought outside of the blanket term of marriage, because that's not what the religious right fought for. They fought for the word. And words can be rendered meaningless with the well thought out and logical arguements that, especially in this case, cannot be contested for any reason the Pro 8's have. This will cause the complete loss of political capital that the word "marriage" currently possesses, and will serve to politically castrate the religious establishment as this is the last great taboo that still exists for them to build power behind.

Once they have nothing else they can fight for, the traces of added religion to this countrys oaths and promises will be removed, God will end up remaining in His churches and in the hearts of those who believe, and "seperation of church and state" will begin to be real in this country. One nation, indivisable, with Liberty and Justice for All.
 

Chibz

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Very well said, Sam. Alas, many of the religious folks would force their beliefs on others.

Many churches still push for homosexuals to be subject to the death penalty. In fact, one politician in Sudbury, Ontario...

I'll let you read for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Popescu_(politician)
 

Samoftherocks

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cuddly_tomato said:
Assassinator said:
If you don't like gay marriage, that's fine, but don't force your beleifs on others. They're not facts, they're personal opinions, so don't treat them like facts. Hence why I'm not against polygamous marriages as well. If it makes them happy, all parties are concenting, I see no reason to stop them.
Marriage is a bit different. It is basically a legal, or chattel agreement between two parties. Although to some it is some kind of sacred holy thing legally it is simply a contract that two peoples assets and interests become one. It is for this reason gay marriage should be allowed, because gays have just as much right to the protection and advantage marriges affords as straights do. But this is the reason why it shouldn't be permitted for polygamists, I mean, what do you say if one of the wifes dies? Does the husband get all her stuff? Or do you divvy it up? And what if he dies and leaves behind three wives? You still got the same legal shit to deal with.
Here is the arguement against polygamy: unchecked immigration. Because our marriage laws allow for the automatic citizenship of any non-citizen having signed a marriage contract with a citizen, allowing for the number of parties involved to be unlimited, one person could marry the entire town of Ciudad Juarez (a town controlled by the Mexican drug cartels) and (assuming same-sex marriage exists) no one in a position of authority would be able to deny the rights of these new citizens. One person could marry the next terrorist hijackers from Saudi Arabia, and they would be protected by our laws until the day they finally unleashed their plan.

These are extreme examples, but imagine also something that has already existed in our country: slavery. One person who agrees to sign an abridged form of marriage contract that denied all other priveleges, but insured citizenship only to its recipients, trades the potential citizenship for a life of indentured servitude (illegally of course). Ever heard of "Base Slaves"? Dealers would trade free drugs for demeaning servitude. Do you think that, considering the lengths to which people go to come to this country, that some plantation in Florida could be populated by a group of Cubans who have signed away any ability to legally fight their "master", but did so willingly for citizenship? Legally, the "master" did nothing wrong.

There are people all over who would find loopholes and exploit them. In this instance, the price could be far more harmful to the taxpayer than not. Polygamy is not going to be legalized.
 

Samoftherocks

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Chibz said:
Very well said, Sam. Alas, many of the religious folks would force their beliefs on others.

Many churches still push for homosexuals to be subject to the death penalty. In fact, one politician in Sudbury, Ontario...

I'll let you read for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Popescu_(politician)
Ick...could've been worse. David Duke got himself elected to the LA House of Reps! I've seen church websites that feature widgets designed to count the days that Matthew Shepherd has been "burning in hell", and I am thankful that, loud and contraversial as that type of hatred is, it represents a tiny, tiny minority of the population of this country.