Poll: Gay Marriage

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GonzoGamer

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Apr 9, 2008
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I don't care. Really it's none of my business.

Why shouldn't they be able to? Because a few people are superstitious?
Fine, then gays can't be married by Christian priests or any other priest that has a problem with it. That's fair: but why shouldn't they be able to go to a judge and have it done?

I just don't understand why it's even an issue for someone who isn't gay. You know, a lot of these religious right wingers talk more about gay people than gay people do; it's kind of telling.

I think Jon Stewart said it best when he said: "I was completely against it, until I found out that I could stay married to my wife."
 

'Stache

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Apr 29, 2009
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2012 Wont Happen said:
I believe that in a free country the majority should not be able to vote down the rights of a minority. That's how the oppression of racial minorities and women happened.
Interesting. Because I believe that in a free country, the will of the people is sacrosanct and inviolable. I would much rather be oppressed by the majority than by a small group of people who think they know what's best for me.
 

Yoshi-Pop

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Apr 1, 2009
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I believe that all marriage is wrong. I mean what does it mean anymore? When the concept was first invented it meant that two people would be together forever. These days it just means "now when we break up we have to fill out paperwork first!! YAY!!"
 

Doug

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Apr 23, 2008
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Aanorith said:
It's just depressing that gay marriage is still an issue. Now I personally don't understand why homosexuells would want to get married in chruch to begin with considering how badly they have bin treated by christianity.

The old testament said many fun things, you could have slaves, had to stone people working on the sabbath. Fun times, why homosexuallity got to stay as a hot topic with the rest adjusting gradually as society progressed is just a mystery to me.

I'm all for it. Be it two brides dressed in white, or two strapping lads in suits walking down the aile, ill be the first one to be clapping and throwing rice.
I think they might kick you out if you just randomly turn up mate ;)
 

LCP

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Dec 24, 2008
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I am at no business to intervene but, i think it shouldn't be legal, because it actually encourages something that is just not right.
 

Naeo

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Dec 31, 2008
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Legal, and I can argue this on a purely legal/economic basis, morality aside.

First, it would completly void the pledge of allegiance and therefore I would start promoting people not being required to say it in school- there's that line about "Liberty and justice FOR ALL", and liberty includes things like "the right to marry". So either the pledge would have to be revised to "With liberty and justice for heterosexuals" or I shouldn't have to say it and lie in doing so.

Second, nothing says a church is mandated to perform a marriage of two gay people. Unless there's something crazy and stupid that I don't know about here. Though, the churches- even if gay marriage is legal- can/should be allowed to refuse to marry a gay couple if they want to. Some other church would undoubtedly do it instead. So there's nothing about dictating what a church must do. I would hope. If there is it should be stricken from the argument, I say.

Third, it generates more revenue. People get married, they usually have the ceremony at a church. And then they go get shitfaced and usually have some sort of party later on, too. And, ultimately, that's more people buying stuff and more people paying a sales tax to the state government.

Fourth, it voids the last line of the only part of the National Anthem that anyone knows- "O'er the land of the FREE and the home of the brave". Can't be called "land of the free" when it was arbitrarily decided that you can't marry if you are in love with another member of your own sex.

Fifth, I have seen absolutely no real arguments from the other side that are substantiated by anything. "Gay marriage destroys society!" without saying how it does in a way that an abusive heterosexual relationship doesn't. "Gays are immoral" without stating how or citing any examples to prove/indicate that there's any real moral deficiency in gay people. "Gay marriage makes kids raised by gay parents unsure and questioning of their sexuality and lead a confused and sub-standard lifestyle". I've actually seen several articles refuting this, with one of the greatest lines I've ever seen: "Maybe they should stop talking about us and start talking with us." Now, this whole paragraph isn't to say that these are the only ones that are ever thrown around, but I see them from lobby groups and people very often.

Oh, and the people who say "being gay just isn't right" have, so far, not provided any real evidence that is viable unless you already believe in the validity of the source (such as the Bible, not to bash Christians. You can cite the Bible, sure. But unless everyone present/involved already accepts that the particular interpretation you're using of the Bible is correct, your argument holds no water. Same for citing the Torah or the Qu'Ran or anything like that). Or not bothering to have a source at all. And I've heard both "animals don't do it, why should we?" and "Animals do it, and we're not animals, so we shouldn't." Well, a platypus doesn't eat cows, so why should we? Animals don't erect skyscrapers and have books, why should we? And for the second statement, animals also eat, breathe, have normal sex for almost entirely procreational reasons (barring a handful of exceptions, such as the monkeys that give a few humps as a greeting), and all that, so why should we, since we're not animals?
 

Andalusa

Mad Cat Lady
Feb 25, 2008
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If people love someone so much that they want to get married, regardless of gender, they should be able to do it.
Why should anyone be denied the happiness that binding yourself to someone you love brings?
 

Thaius

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Mar 5, 2008
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Xanadu84 said:
Cavouku said:
Canada doesn't seem to be dying off any faster than usual just because gays are marrying. I'd have to see some bad riots against it here in Canada before I think it's a God awful idea, and I've found too many loopholes to Biblical acts against homosexuals to think they're evil or any such crap.

Let them be married, and if anyone gets upset, set them straight on it all, if anyone gets insanely upset, I expect the Klan to grow in numbers.
Speaking of the Bible, I used to take the position of, "You can't take the bible literally" in regards to gay marriage. Then, I read this

http://www.otkenyer.hu/truluck/six_bible_passages.html

Even the Bible is fine with homosexuality. Ironically, Sodom and Gomorrah condemns homophobes.
Sorry, but really, this article just doesn't work. It's simply someone twisting Bible passages and trying to sound smart by babbling on for paragraphs. But if you really know the Bible, you can see that he is not as familiar with it as it would seem, and he is taking it horribly out of context. But I suppose this is an example of what is known in Terry Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" series: people will believe anything if they want to believe it is true.

For example (I'll only use one, for the sake of length): he uses Romans 1:26-27, which states that "...God gave them over to degrading passions ... men abandoned the natural use of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts..."

He claims that Paul is referring not to homosexual relationships, but to pagan rituals. He backs this up by... well, babbling. None of what he says really supports his theory, it just makes him sound smart. But had he really done all the study on Romans that he claims, he would know that Romans is the one letter that we know Paul DID NOT write. This damages his credibility a bit, I would say. Beyond that, this passage specifically says "degrading passions." Not rituals, but passions. Seems to rather clearly speak against homosexuality itself, not rituals. But whatever: logic is something that is praised yet lost on our society, ruled by bias rather than pure rational thought.
 

'Stache

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Apr 29, 2009
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2012 Wont Happen said:
lenin_117 said:
2012 Wont Happen said:
The simple truth is- homosexuality is born not chosen.
Arguable. Some would say it about the environment they grew up in etc etc. That homosexuality is born is not a simple truth or self-evident.
Well, all research that I've seen come out from geneticists and such since... well since I've been alive points to it being a born trait
Can you cite a study that has been performed, repeated, and collaborated that supports your claim? Don't answer that; I already know you can't, because there isn't one. What little solid research has been done on the matter indicates that homosexuality is a result of a) environement, or b) genetic predisposition (in the same way that some people are genetically predisposed to, say, alcoholosim). An example of this is the famous "gay twins" study, which analyzed the sexual orientation of twins who were seperated at birth, and ultimately found that two genetically identical twins will frequently have different orientations.

This and other studies indicate that no one is born gay (although some people are born with genetic characteristics that make them more likely to become gay).

I'm going to be honest here. I don't care if homosexuality is an inherent or acquired trait. It doesn't make any difference to me if life evolved or was created by a supreme being. I'm agnostic when it comes to global warming. But it makes me mad as hell when people on both sides use pseudoscientific bullshit to support their opinions.
 

Skutch

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Jul 21, 2009
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I normally hate to sound too harsh or condescending, but the people against gay marriage and equal rights for people of alternative sexualities are suffering from severe cultural dissonance, and the sooner they wake up and realize they are on the wrong side of history and social progress the better off everyone will be.
Legalized gay marriage in the US is going to happen, and is already in progress. It's only a matter of time. Think of how much more socially acceptable homosexuality is now than it was just 10 years ago. Years from now, people are going to look back at this time and wonder at the confusion and the obtuse intolerance, and marvel at the stupidity of it because by then they will all know that of course gay people should be treated with the same respect and dignity that every other Human Being deserves. Our grandchildren will be ashamed of our persecution and intolerance for gays in the same way that the current generation views with bewilderment the segregation of black people and white people in our past. And all of the hatemongers that don't wise up are destined to become the proverbial racist old bastards that nobody can stand to be around.
 

Optix334

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Jun 27, 2009
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Somewhere in the New Testament (forgot where, havent read the Bible in awhile, use a concordance) it says homosexuality is an abomination.God said to be fruitful and multiply, which homosexuality does not accomplish. Also, homosexuality is not a natrual thing, its not genetic and it will never be either of those. Homosexuality is a choice, a wrong choice but a choice nontheless. Should they allowed to be married? i dont think so and i will always vote against anything like prop 8. To those of you who think marrige should not exist, Marrige was described in the Bible as a sacred union between a Man and a Woman, another reason why homosexuality is wrong. I dont hate Gays and i never will but, anyway you look at it everything except for human opinion points to it being wrong and thats my standpoint.
 

TheNumber1Zero

Forgot to Remember
Jul 23, 2009
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well,I guess I have no opinion.being caught between my belief in freedom,and my dislike of said sexual preference.

not to be offensive,just don't like it.
 

Skutch

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Jul 21, 2009
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Optix334 said:
Somewhere in the New Testament (forgot where, havent read the Bible in awhile, use a concordance) it says homosexuality is an abomination.God said to be fruitful and multiply, which homosexuality does not accomplish. Also, homosexuality is not a natrual thing, its not genetic and it will never be either of those. Homosexuality is a choice, a wrong choice but a choice nontheless. Should they allowed to be married? i dont think so and i will always vote against anything like prop 8. To those of you who think marrige should not exist, Marrige was described in the Bible as a sacred union between a Man and a Woman, another reason why homosexuality is wrong. I dont hate Gays and i never will but, anyway you look at it everything except for human opinion points to it being wrong and thats my standpoint.
Wow, where to start... A few points you obviously weren't aware of.

Marriage existed thousands of years before the bible was even written. It was not an invention of any of the Abrahamic religions, so what right do they have to claim it as belonging solely to them?
Homosexuality exists in nature, and has been well-documented as occurring frequently in several different species. How can something that exists in Nature be unnatural?

Since many people don't recognize "God" as a legitimate, existent, or even remotely consistent authority figure, and those that do recognize him can't even agree on how the bible should be interpreted, why should a few passages some dude scrawled a looong time ago even enter into a secular debate?

Finally, Prop 8 eliminated the already existing right of same-sex couples to marry in the state of California. If you were to vote against it or anything like it, you would be voting FOR gay marriage.
 

Brown Cap

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Jan 6, 2009
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I'm not gay and i'm aware "The Bible" says being gay is bad or something.
But honestly

What is so vile, immoral, and wrong about same sex marriage?

It should be legallized
 

SiliconKnight

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Nov 23, 2008
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At least in the US I think gay marriage should be legalized or have the legal benefits removed from marriage all together. That would even the playing field.
 

ProjectileVomit

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Jan 18, 2008
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One of the founding point of United States government is the separation of church and state. Banning gay marriage clearly shows a Christian influence on the Legislative branch.
 

Xanadu84

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Apr 9, 2008
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Thaius said:
Xanadu84 said:
Cavouku said:
Canada doesn't seem to be dying off any faster than usual just because gays are marrying. I'd have to see some bad riots against it here in Canada before I think it's a God awful idea, and I've found too many loopholes to Biblical acts against homosexuals to think they're evil or any such crap.

Let them be married, and if anyone gets upset, set them straight on it all, if anyone gets insanely upset, I expect the Klan to grow in numbers.
Speaking of the Bible, I used to take the position of, "You can't take the bible literally" in regards to gay marriage. Then, I read this

http://www.otkenyer.hu/truluck/six_bible_passages.html

Even the Bible is fine with homosexuality. Ironically, Sodom and Gomorrah condemns homophobes.
Sorry, but really, this article just doesn't work. It's simply someone twisting Bible passages and trying to sound smart by babbling on for paragraphs. But if you really know the Bible, you can see that he is not as familiar with it as it would seem, and he is taking it horribly out of context. But I suppose this is an example of what is known in Terry Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" series: people will believe anything if they want to believe it is true.

For example (I'll only use one, for the sake of length): he uses Romans 1:26-27, which states that "...God gave them over to degrading passions ... men abandoned the natural use of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts..."

He claims that Paul is referring not to homosexual relationships, but to pagan rituals. He backs this up by... well, babbling. None of what he says really supports his theory, it just makes him sound smart. But had he really done all the study on Romans that he claims, he would know that Romans is the one letter that we know Paul DID NOT write. This damages his credibility a bit, I would say. Beyond that, this passage specifically says "degrading passions." Not rituals, but passions. Seems to rather clearly speak against homosexuality itself, not rituals. But whatever: logic is something that is praised yet lost on our society, ruled by bias rather than pure rational thought.
I agree that people take the Bible and twist its meaning. But it seems to me that the twisting is not being done by this scholar. In a book as ambiguous and filled with parable as the Bible, you have no choice but to add your interpretation. That's kind of the point, that you can't take it at face value. But even at face value, the case against homosexuality falls apart.

The Bible has been translated many, many times. This guy has experience with looking at the various translations. Sure it sounds like a stretch, but that's because we only have access to the English copy. If you can find a person who is an expert in translating the various Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic etc sources, then go right ahead. So far, it seems like the only person we have cited who is qualified to do the translations says that there no gay bashing in the bible. Your evidence against him consists of merely interpreting the English word as an English word: If this were a permissible argument, then I know a lot of very smart foreigners who don't speak fluent English who must actually be very stupid, because there basic grammar has a lot of mistakes. Ive looked up a bit of his, "Babbling", and all of his ideas appear to check out. I'm sorry, but between the people saying that the Bible condemns Homosexuality, and those who say it does not, this article is supported far better. And I have to side with the superior argument.