Poll: Gay Marriage

[Zosephine]

I am all for rights for non-straight couples. Hey, I'm not straight, so I'm not gonna close off my own options.


Here's my idea for the whole thing:
[solution hat]

Change the term "Marriage" into the term for a purely religious partnership.

Legally, any kind of couple who would be previously considered "Married" would be in a Civil Union.

The "sanctity of marriage" remains for those who care, gay couples get the same rights as straight couples, and there's a little more separation of church and state for Americans to enjoy.

[/solution hat]

It seems to me that the "sanctity of marriage" argument is a thin veil for the "God thinks it's wrong" argument. So keeping the "sanctity of marriage" while allowing same-sex couples to be legally recognized is my own little personal joke. ^_^

 

[Wintio]

Marriage is a strange thing, various tax breaks etc. just because you've made a legal promise to stay together "forever". I can't think of any credible reason why anyone who lives together shouldn't qualify for the same legal benefits as a marriage.

As for the expression of love part, yes it is a big commitment to someone else, I can't see it as anything specifically religious, and if anyone wants to do it, I think they should be able to.

Admittedly, I don't think anyone should be able to force a particular religion to condone or conduct the marriages, but in the same way they have no right to block civil marriages or even other churches/religions that do conduct them.

 

[Mr.Pandah]

Only thing I feel like saying to be honest is "The Fall of Rome."

I'm tired of this, Rome didn't fall because of homosexuality. If anything Rome's fall actually had more to do with its adopting Christianity*. A pacifist religion is hardly the best choice for a militarist state... though today we seem to have worked through that by ignoring the pacifist part.

*According to The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon

Oh, you're tired of it? I'm sorry. I didn't realize. Did I credit it the entire Fall of Rome to gays? No. No, I did not. Besides, Christianity is hardly pacifist. Just because we focus on the whole Jesus part, doesn't mean there aren't chapters of war in our book.

Sum of its parts. Thats what lead to the downfall, being gay was one of them.

I doubt that homosexuality had ANYTHING to do with the fall of rome. Probably some of the people who had a part in the fall were gay. But that's not because they were gay, that was just a coincidence. There were a lot more heterosexuals that contributed I'm sure.

Hey, I didn't write history. Coincidence or not, its food for the thought.

I also don't understand why they need to be "married". Why isn't the civil union enough? I guess they really are looking for the tax breaks that "marriage" gives.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

Only thing I feel like saying to be honest is "The Fall of Rome."

I'm tired of this, Rome didn't fall because of homosexuality. If anything Rome's fall actually had more to do with its adopting Christianity*. A pacifist religion is hardly the best choice for a militarist state... though today we seem to have worked through that by ignoring the pacifist part.

*According to The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon

Oh, you're tired of it? I'm sorry. I didn't realize. Did I credit it the entire Fall of Rome to gays? No. No, I did not. Besides, Christianity is hardly pacifist. Just because we focus on the whole Jesus part, doesn't mean there aren't chapters of war in our book.

Sum of its parts. Thats what lead to the downfall, being gay was one of them.

I doubt that homosexuality had ANYTHING to do with the fall of rome. Probably some of the people who had a part in the fall were gay. But that's not because they were gay, that was just a coincidence. There were a lot more heterosexuals that contributed I'm sure.

Hey, I didn't write history. Coincidence or not, its food for the thought.

I also don't understand why they need to be "married". Why isn't the civil union enough? I guess they really are looking for the tax breaks that "marriage" gives.

Yeah- why shouldn't they get the same tax benefits?

 

[House25]

Well I'm from IL and I'm all for Gay marriage.

To 2012WontHappen: I must sadly take a glance at the forum guidelines and say the old harrowed phrase, "Search Button".
I saw this thread 10 times after Prop. 8 failed. So why not just comment on an old thread?
Sorry, just sayin'.

He doesn't need to become a Necromancer and ressurrect an old thread. Really, its fine that he makes a new one since Prop 8 was a few months back already.

Alright I can respect that. I just don't like it whem people ask questions that have been asked for years and even more since P8. Most people that ask late questions are either: A - stupids, B - They've been in a cave since the Comodore was popular, or C - they are just curious enough to ask a question and get an updated response.

I'm hoping 2012 is in the later catergory.

 

[crudus]

Gay couples make me uncomfortable. It's weird; something just doesn't set right with me and gay couples. However, this does not stop me from supporting gay rights since there is no reason not to. I have a lot of gay friends whom I value and it feels like a betrayal to not support gay rights.

History does tend to repeat itself, and all of the turmoil that was going on in Rome, gays were much more prominent. Back then, most people didn't think much of it though, unlike today.

Empires rise and fall. It's the natural order of things. Saying "gays caused/contributed to the fall of various empires" seems more correlation rather than causation. Please provide reasons of how gays caused (or contributed) to the fall of Rome.

 

[Mr.Pandah]

Only thing I feel like saying to be honest is "The Fall of Rome."

I'm tired of this, Rome didn't fall because of homosexuality. If anything Rome's fall actually had more to do with its adopting Christianity*. A pacifist religion is hardly the best choice for a militarist state... though today we seem to have worked through that by ignoring the pacifist part.

*According to The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon

Oh, you're tired of it? I'm sorry. I didn't realize. Did I credit it the entire Fall of Rome to gays? No. No, I did not. Besides, Christianity is hardly pacifist. Just because we focus on the whole Jesus part, doesn't mean there aren't chapters of war in our book.

Sum of its parts. Thats what lead to the downfall, being gay was one of them.

I doubt that homosexuality had ANYTHING to do with the fall of rome. Probably some of the people who had a part in the fall were gay. But that's not because they were gay, that was just a coincidence. There were a lot more heterosexuals that contributed I'm sure.

Hey, I didn't write history. Coincidence or not, its food for the thought.

I also don't understand why they need to be "married". Why isn't the civil union enough? I guess they really are looking for the tax breaks that "marriage" gives.

Yeah- why shouldn't they get the same tax benefits?

Easily answered. Because most of them don't say it. Its all about "Why can't we love eachother like everyone else?"

It would seem a bit cold if they said "We want to get married for the tax breaks", would it not?

 

[Kriptonite]

I am for it. Someone once said that gays found the loophole in the system, they don't have to deal with women. That being said, I myself am straight. I just think it's funny. Not gay marriage, the system thing.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

Only thing I feel like saying to be honest is "The Fall of Rome."

I'm tired of this, Rome didn't fall because of homosexuality. If anything Rome's fall actually had more to do with its adopting Christianity*. A pacifist religion is hardly the best choice for a militarist state... though today we seem to have worked through that by ignoring the pacifist part.

*According to The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon

Oh, you're tired of it? I'm sorry. I didn't realize. Did I credit it the entire Fall of Rome to gays? No. No, I did not. Besides, Christianity is hardly pacifist. Just because we focus on the whole Jesus part, doesn't mean there aren't chapters of war in our book.

Sum of its parts. Thats what lead to the downfall, being gay was one of them.

I doubt that homosexuality had ANYTHING to do with the fall of rome. Probably some of the people who had a part in the fall were gay. But that's not because they were gay, that was just a coincidence. There were a lot more heterosexuals that contributed I'm sure.

Hey, I didn't write history. Coincidence or not, its food for the thought.

I also don't understand why they need to be "married". Why isn't the civil union enough? I guess they really are looking for the tax breaks that "marriage" gives.

Yeah- why shouldn't they get the same tax benefits?

Easily answered. Because most of them don't say it. Its all about "Why can't we love eachother like everyone else?"

It would seem a bit cold if they said "We want to get married for the tax breaks", would it not?

If they phrased it like "we want to get married so we'll have equal benefits" then it wouldn't sound cold- it would sound like they just wanted to be free.

Sometimes its all in how you phrase it.

 

[Mr.Pandah]

Gay couples make me uncomfortable. It's weird; something just doesn't set right with me and gay couples. However, this does not stop me from supporting gay rights since there is no reason not to. I have a lot of gay friends whom I value and it feels like a betrayal to not support gay rights.

History does tend to repeat itself, and all of the turmoil that was going on in Rome, gays were much more prominent. Back then, most people didn't think much of it though, unlike today.

Empires rise and fall. It's the natural order of things. Saying "gays caused/contributed to the fall of various empires" seems more correlation rather than causation. Please provide reasons of how gays caused (or contributed) to the fall of Rome.

I'm just putting it out there, I have no backing, its just always been one of the "reasons" that something went into the shitter. I'm not saying I exactly put stock into it, but like anything else, its food for thought.

Just like how I don't think Obama is actually some crazed socialist hell bent on making this the next USSR, but some things do point to it. *THATS A COMPARISON, DON'T BRING ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT HIM INTO THIS*

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

Gay couples make me uncomfortable. It's weird; something just doesn't set right with me and gay couples. However, this does not stop me from supporting gay rights since there is no reason not to. I have a lot of gay friends whom I value and it feels like a betrayal to not support gay rights.

History does tend to repeat itself, and all of the turmoil that was going on in Rome, gays were much more prominent. Back then, most people didn't think much of it though, unlike today.

Empires rise and fall. It's the natural order of things. Saying "gays caused/contributed to the fall of various empires" seems more correlation rather than causation. Please provide reasons of how gays caused (or contributed) to the fall of Rome.

I'm just putting it out there, I have no backing, its just always been one of the "reasons" that something went into the shitter. I'm not saying I exactly put stock into it, but like anything else, its food for thought.

Just like how I don't think Obama is actually some crazed socialist hell bent on making this the next USSR, but some things do point to it. *THATS A COMPARISON, DON'T BRING ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT HIM INTO THIS*

Thanks for the ending disclaimer. That would've surely started a flame war if not for your putting that. *claps*

Anyway- I will assume that what you claim, about homosexuality being more common during the fall of Rome, is a true one. However, I just see little way that such a statistic could effect the health of the Empire.

 

[Branovices]

Only thing I feel like saying to be honest is "The Fall of Rome."

I'm tired of this, Rome didn't fall because of homosexuality. If anything Rome's fall actually had more to do with its adopting Christianity*. A pacifist religion is hardly the best choice for a militarist state... though today we seem to have worked through that by ignoring the pacifist part.

*According to The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon

Oh, you're tired of it? I'm sorry. I didn't realize. Did I credit it the entire Fall of Rome to gays? No. No, I did not. Besides, Christianity is hardly pacifist. Just because we focus on the whole Jesus part, doesn't mean there aren't chapters of war in our book.

Sum of its parts. Thats what lead to the downfall, being gay was one of them.

Right, it's not a pacifist religion as long as you ignore Jesus. Turn the other cheek, love thy enemy, the meek shall inherit the earth, if someone takes your coat give him also your shirt etc.

Also, in what possible manner did homosexuality, present and tolerated since the dawn of the Republic of Rome, contribute to the fall of Rome?

 

[Mr.Pandah]

Only thing I feel like saying to be honest is "The Fall of Rome."

I'm tired of this, Rome didn't fall because of homosexuality. If anything Rome's fall actually had more to do with its adopting Christianity*. A pacifist religion is hardly the best choice for a militarist state... though today we seem to have worked through that by ignoring the pacifist part.

*According to The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon

Oh, you're tired of it? I'm sorry. I didn't realize. Did I credit it the entire Fall of Rome to gays? No. No, I did not. Besides, Christianity is hardly pacifist. Just because we focus on the whole Jesus part, doesn't mean there aren't chapters of war in our book.

Sum of its parts. Thats what lead to the downfall, being gay was one of them.

I doubt that homosexuality had ANYTHING to do with the fall of rome. Probably some of the people who had a part in the fall were gay. But that's not because they were gay, that was just a coincidence. There were a lot more heterosexuals that contributed I'm sure.

Hey, I didn't write history. Coincidence or not, its food for the thought.

I also don't understand why they need to be "married". Why isn't the civil union enough? I guess they really are looking for the tax breaks that "marriage" gives.

Yeah- why shouldn't they get the same tax benefits?

Easily answered. Because most of them don't say it. Its all about "Why can't we love eachother like everyone else?"

It would seem a bit cold if they said "We want to get married for the tax breaks", would it not?

If they phrased it like "we want to get married so we'll have equal benefits" then it wouldn't sound cold- it would sound like they just wanted to be free.

Sometimes its all in how you phrase it.

True. So...get to making those picket signs! What are you doing sitting around?!

Honestly though, does it really matter what I think? Its the same thing with drugs and alcohol(even though alcohol is considered a drug as well). Everyone has their mind made up one way or another. And I say you make it "Gay Marriage in the world?" as the topic title.

USA isn't the only place that has to deal with this, ya know?

 

[House25]

Easily answered. Because most of them don't say it. Its all about "Why can't we love eachother like everyone else?"

It would seem a bit cold if they said "We want to get married for the tax breaks", would it not?

I want to get in on this orgy.
(if you got that pun than you deserve a nice sandvich)

I'm going to out on a limb and say that some heterosexual "couples" do marry for benefits.
I can here Sandra Bullock in the back of my head. The Proposal is a great example.

People can be in love, and want to cement the relationship with marriage. So why not compensate them for taking that extra step.
Also the Homosexual divorce rate is a mere 3%, while hetero is an ungodly amount.

(FUCK QUOTE TREES)

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

Only thing I feel like saying to be honest is "The Fall of Rome."

I'm tired of this, Rome didn't fall because of homosexuality. If anything Rome's fall actually had more to do with its adopting Christianity*. A pacifist religion is hardly the best choice for a militarist state... though today we seem to have worked through that by ignoring the pacifist part.

*According to The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon

Oh, you're tired of it? I'm sorry. I didn't realize. Did I credit it the entire Fall of Rome to gays? No. No, I did not. Besides, Christianity is hardly pacifist. Just because we focus on the whole Jesus part, doesn't mean there aren't chapters of war in our book.

Sum of its parts. Thats what lead to the downfall, being gay was one of them.

I doubt that homosexuality had ANYTHING to do with the fall of rome. Probably some of the people who had a part in the fall were gay. But that's not because they were gay, that was just a coincidence. There were a lot more heterosexuals that contributed I'm sure.

Hey, I didn't write history. Coincidence or not, its food for the thought.

I also don't understand why they need to be "married". Why isn't the civil union enough? I guess they really are looking for the tax breaks that "marriage" gives.

Yeah- why shouldn't they get the same tax benefits?

Easily answered. Because most of them don't say it. Its all about "Why can't we love eachother like everyone else?"

It would seem a bit cold if they said "We want to get married for the tax breaks", would it not?

If they phrased it like "we want to get married so we'll have equal benefits" then it wouldn't sound cold- it would sound like they just wanted to be free.

Sometimes its all in how you phrase it.

True. So...get to making those picket signs! What are you doing sitting around?!

Honestly though, does it really matter what I think? Its the same thing with drugs and alcohol(even though alcohol is considered a drug as well). Everyone has their mind made up one way or another. And I say you make it "Gay Marriage in the world?" as the topic title.

USA isn't the only place that has to deal with this, ya know?

good idea on the world thing. I'll change it up to be more general

I'm not making picket signs, but I'm in a political band and we have songs promoting gay rights. Same basic principle?

 

[amazinglettera]

As I see it, marriage is not something of a traditional religious manner. Nor is it something that should be completely up to the decision of a few to be made for all. Speaking as someone who has lived their whole life in the USA and have known plenty of gay/lesbian/bisexual people and have called many of them friends, marriage should be legal to those who deem it. If a couple of guys want to express their love for each other, let em. That's the point. If we get bogged down in itty-bitty details and unimportant events, we will write out own destruction. Let love flow and freedom prevail.

 

[manaman]

I could care less what they want to call it. If the goverment is in the buisness of mandating and managing and giving special privileges to people who get married in a religious ceremony then it needs to allow that to everyone who wants to get married in a public place like... oh... Say - a courthouse.

Now if the goverment wants to get out of the buisness of having anything to do with marriages, wants to make all unions on their part a civil matter that is only as involved as filling out a few pieces of paper then that is all they should be offering. In that case you can go have your religious marriage ceremony in your own church and keep it out of my courthouse.

Either way as long as everyone is treated equal by the goverment. After that to hell with what people want to do on their own time, with their own money, in their own private ways.

 

[Rigs83]

Only thing I feel like saying to be honest is "The Fall of Rome."

I'm tired of this, Rome didn't fall because of homosexuality. If anything Rome's fall actually had more to do with its adopting Christianity*. A pacifist religion is hardly the best choice for a militarist state... though today we seem to have worked through that by ignoring the pacifist part.

*According to The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon

Oh, you're tired of it? I'm sorry. I didn't realize. Did I credit it the entire Fall of Rome to gays? No. No, I did not. Besides, Christianity is hardly pacifist. Just because we focus on the whole Jesus part, doesn't mean there aren't chapters of war in our book.

Sum of its parts. Thats what lead to the downfall, being gay was one of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ANrvQC4wIk[/youtube]

What we define as homosexuality today is a product of the Catholic Church who wanted to define right and wrong because we all need guilt in our lives. Hell a woman being on top was once considered sodomy because it is unnatural and if anyone knows what is natural or unnatural in bed it's a chaste priest.

Rome fell because everything falls down. Society is either being built or it's collapsing, their is no middle ground.