I would rather say the line is out right blurred with a exponential distribution, potato potato I guess.shootthebandit said:
Poll: Gender Identity
- Thread starter Zak757
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Cis female, the second most mundane option on the list.
The Escapist really is just a complete sausage-fest, isn't it? XDJoJo said:
Well it's not complete, it's like 12.5% female... I assume you haven't been to many sausage fests? LAN parties in the late 1990's were though, with that one girl coming to say hi to her bf.Colour Scientist said:
It was a sad/fun time...
Anyways, I'm cis male and happy staying that way.
Though, I do wonder about the definition of gender identity. I don't seem to fit the typical male identity very well, nor the female identity. But that's more of a social construct than a biological/physical identity, I suppose.
I mean, the normal ones were good too, but mostly for comic relief.
Though, I do wonder about the definition of gender identity. I don't seem to fit the typical male identity very well, nor the female identity. But that's more of a social construct than a biological/physical identity, I suppose.
Side note, please tell me I'm not the only one who thought (and still thinks) that super battle droids were fucking badass?Baron von Blitztank said:Then consider me a member of the CIS.Zak757 said:
I mean, the normal ones were good too, but mostly for comic relief.
Without wishing to kick off a whole debate on the issue, my position is that those stereotypes (women = caring, men = technical) are overwhelmingly socially constructed and reinforced. I'm fairly certain there's nothing "innate" preventing men from being as caring as women or women being as good at engineering as men, just societal pressures, biases and expectations. It'll take a hell of a lot and a very long time (as in several generations) to dismantle those completely, but I do believe it's possible and would be beneficial and liberating for everyone.shootthebandit said:
In my ideal world, gender would have no meaning at all, and biological sex would only be relevant for relationships/reproduction. Beyond that, everyone would be free to act however they want, wear whatever they want, and take on whatever roles they want. It wouldn't be considered any more weird for a man to wear a dress than for a woman to wear trousers. Fathers could be primary caregivers without having to explain themselves. Women could wear tuxes to formal events without everyone assuming they're gay or trying to make a statement. There would be no "girl toys" and "boy toys", just toys that children could pick and choose from as they wanted. Etc, etc, etc.
Sex is male, gender is genderqueer I suppose. I'd be fine as male or female, and ideally could switch at ease between the two. My sex isn't what defines me as a person. Pronouns, I'm fine just using whatever my current physical sex is which is male. I think gender roles can go screw themselves, I'd like the same things, act the same and wear mostly the same things regardless of sex with some cultural or practical exceptions (Bras, suits/dresses at formal occasions, uniforms, etc...) I generally just wear comfortable, practical, gender-neutral clothing. So t-shirts, jeans, hoodies, jumpers, coats, etc.
What if there was a statistical difference even after socities expectations and conditioning was completely abolished?Eamar said:
it wouldn't matter because people could do what they want without expectations...Boris Goodenough said:
you know it actually really fucking annoys me how heteronormative formal wear is...I guess its because it harkens back to an older time...but the more formal you get the more you've got to sit on either sideEamar said:
I should have added: what would that then be?Vault101 said:
I know, or should I say I understand, the situation where girls had "boy" interests from as early as they remember and were not able to enjoy them with their friends because their friends did "girly" stuff.
I will be glad with expectations will be done with, for example I played with My Little Pony some 2 decades ago...
I was asking wether there truely was a biological difference, on average, when all expectations were gone if boys and girls still chose "boy" and "girls" toys without prejudice.
No. There is no observed biological difference in toy choices if gender roles are not enforced. I would be up all night hunting down my various psychological and sociological sources to back this up, but I have a Philosophy exam in 12 hours and I haven't slept or even revised my notes. So the barest of reference sources will have to do.Boris Goodenough said:
I preface this by saying that when I use the term 'gender' I am speaking in a strictly heteronormative, binary sense of male/female. Gender is culturally far more fluid than that, to the tune of an almost infinite amount of genders. Thus, in this response, I use gender as strictly referring to the binary roles of male and female. I could use 'sex' but as I feel the question was referring to gender, I shall stay with that word. Also, I am no expert. I make mistakes and some of my information may be wrong
Developmentally, until the age of around 4-6, when both boys and girls start to become interested in why their daddy looks different downstairs to themselves or their mummy, the knowledge of sexual dimorphism is limited [source: Peterson, C., 2014. Developmental psychology]. Bear in mind the millions of subtle messages society pushes on kids almost from birth, and you might notice how difficult it might be to shield them from gender roles, but it can be done. It is normal behaviour for boys to play with and even nurse dolls, and girls to push big trucks around. In fact, in their minds, if that's fun to them, they will do. They will emulate behaviour of both genders they see [Source: Lilienfeld, S et al 2013. Psychology: From Inquiry to Understanding] unless taught otherwise.
Gender is not set in stone, but as a society we set in place roles for the genders. Stepping outside of those roles is culturally unacceptable (even still, although it is getting better). You will note the little boys that love to wear dresses and princess tiaras. They do it because they want to, it's fun for them, and they don't see a difference. It's we that push that difference on them.
Gravitation to gendered toys doesn't happen if kids don't get the message that certain toys are or are not for them.
Again, I am no expert. I haven't given links, nor gave I really done a lot of giving direction for more information. But this isn't hidden stuff either. A good search on Google Scholar (http://scholar.google.com) will hand out some good information. Just be sure to pick the peer reviewed journal articles. Scholar is better than vanilla Google, but it's still prone to pseudoscience.
I don't see how you could really tell. You'd need a totally unbiased society, and you're not likely ever to find one of those.Boris Goodenough said:
(And, yeah, ok, did think of various "toys" that are generally more suited to one sex than another, but those are more adult)
Problem is, such a hypothetical society would be something totally unlikely anything we have now, outside of all human experience. You can't really make predictions, or rather you can, but they aren't falsifiable.Boris Goodenough said:I am glad we agree on the word hypotheticalthaluikhain said:
For example, yes.Boris Goodenough said:Flesh light?
Only if you are judgemental about it, I never got shit for playing with My Little Pony, sure one or two giggles but nothing that hindered my enjoyment of them or followed me, not even with other male friends.Eamar said:
Sure, but I'm prepared to bet many more people did have problems. I wasn't allowed to wear the clothes I wanted because I wasn't a boy, for example. And that's pretty minor really, I don't imagine I would have got teased much if my parents had allowed me to dress how I wanted. But imagine if you had wanted to wear pink and dress up in tiaras and feather boas as a little boy (and little boys like that do exist). Do you really think people would have turned a blind eye to that, even if they were forgiving of things like MLP? Do you honestly think they wouldn't have made assumptions about your sexuality/gender identity? Because that's what tends to happen, unfortunately.Boris Goodenough said:
It's a continuum, basically. Allowing one part to become accepted/normal opens to floodgates for more restrictive and damaging behaviour. I stand by my view that, unless something can be proven to be 100% preferred/required by one gender, there is no need to gender it.
I don't even know what "cis" means, but I have two X chromosomes and tend to act based on what I am rather than how I might feel.