Pfft that wasn't crap compared to the Rape Sims in Japan. Google Rapelay if you have the stomach for it.Spacelord said:
Poll: Gritty realism... without killer children?
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Here's my take, at present video games are not seen as 'mature art form'.
Therefore you can't push certain boundaries in a game that you could in a serious movie.
It's the same reason you could see kids being killed in a serious drama, but Saw 6 isn't going to be set in a preschool.
The Saw movies are 'entertainment' so they have tighter rules as to what is acceptable than say, whereas a 'worthy' drama, designed to suck up Oscars can have kids dying if it's essential to the plot.
Also it's the difference between seeing a kid hit by a car, or losing a battle with a disease, or dying on the operating table, and one being chainsawed in half by a loony with a hockey mask.
Until video games are accepted on a level with movies, music, and books, we're not going to have the creative freedom to tell certain types of story.
It's a similar issue with rape, its not 'entertainment' but can sometimes be an important part of a movie for the plot, it's when its used in the wrong way in movies, that it becomes more offensive.
Therefore you can't push certain boundaries in a game that you could in a serious movie.
It's the same reason you could see kids being killed in a serious drama, but Saw 6 isn't going to be set in a preschool.
The Saw movies are 'entertainment' so they have tighter rules as to what is acceptable than say, whereas a 'worthy' drama, designed to suck up Oscars can have kids dying if it's essential to the plot.
Also it's the difference between seeing a kid hit by a car, or losing a battle with a disease, or dying on the operating table, and one being chainsawed in half by a loony with a hockey mask.
Until video games are accepted on a level with movies, music, and books, we're not going to have the creative freedom to tell certain types of story.
It's a similar issue with rape, its not 'entertainment' but can sometimes be an important part of a movie for the plot, it's when its used in the wrong way in movies, that it becomes more offensive.
I think it mostly mirrors the way the world is. Most militias and armies don't have women in their ranks. If they do the women are in the minority.
I personally think that games a quite misandrist. I see no reason why a mans life should mean less than a women. Men are no more able to protect themselves from bullets then women.
Until games become mature enough to be considered interactive features then I don't think they're ready to handle to horrifying truth of child soldiers and such.
I personally think that games a quite misandrist. I see no reason why a mans life should mean less than a women. Men are no more able to protect themselves from bullets then women.
Until games become mature enough to be considered interactive features then I don't think they're ready to handle to horrifying truth of child soldiers and such.
It would be a good morality choice thing but probably get an AO rating or not sold on shelves (if I understand you correctly).
While I don't agree with the "yay! shoot the kids" comment, it is my personal opinion that if children appear in game then, yes, you should be able to kill them. It may be cruel, but then is it really any more cruel than killing that relatively defenceless shopkeeper that's just trying to scrape by through selling random junk to passersby? In reality, they'd deserve to live just as much as any child would while on the other hand they're life could be snuffed out just as easily. They are still people and surely, given the often impressionable minds that play games, would it not be more dangerous to show a child being impervious to the effects of violence than the opposite? All we'd need to see is one sorry incident where one easily influenced and slightly unhinged individual to physically take their anger out on a child and the media then traces it back to the game they were playing that portayed kids as indestructible beings that look like they could survive a star exploding in their face...orifice said:
I wonder if any remembers a little game called Deus Ex : Invisible War that was released some years ago now? You may then also remember the ease at which the NPC's regardless of age, could be picked off. In one scene in that game, I was carrying around a heavy metal trolley of sorts (through the use of a strength aug) and stopped to listen to a conversation between a little girl and her mother. It was my plan to drop the trolley in front of me, but a slip of the finger resulted in me tapping the left mouse button and sending the trolley flying forward into the little girl with such force that she was crushed against the wall.
Perhaps things weren't as strict back then, but still stands as an example of game where it was possible to run around terminating minors if you so desired. If designers are wanting to mnake they're games more realistic, then it's something they do need to consider. They can add all thr snappy graphics and accurate physics they want, but if a little ankle biter can take a barrage of shotgun blast to the face and brush off landmines then it doesn't really help. When venting off to my dad (who had the misfortune of being the only person really around at the time to listen) regarding my inability to put down the Mayor of Little Lamplight, I thoroughly planed him (reference
) whne he stated that it wouldn't be right to kill a defenceless child in a game anyway. I was quick to point out that the "defenceless" kid in question was carrying an assault rifle and more than likely knew how to use it.
I was willing to leave the Little Lamplighters alone however once I had a sold Bumble into slavery. That'll teach 'em.
Truly though, as has been mentioned, until games are deemed mature enough, we are probably not going to have scenes where kids are put in the line of fire or used as soldiers, like in the film Blood Diamond or the like.
Anyway, as an aside, I can't remember the name of the game (it certainly wasn't mainstream that's for sure) but it was featured in an issue of PC Gamer a long while back. They generally viewed it as been a bit twisted and morbid for their tastes, in particular referencing a scene where your character could wander into a morgue and, shall we say, interact (euphemism) with a womans corpse. So make of that what you will....
I think incorporating them into games for realism would be a real slap to the face of most gamers stuck in their I'm the hero mentality. Rather than Us V.S. Them, lets have an Us = Them to show what war really is most of the time.
I think you missed my point about the children. I wasn't saying that the developers could use zombie children, but rather that the children would be used tastelessly. People mention that movies use the death of children as dramatic scenes, and to highten the drama of a child fighting for his life against a virus, or being run over by a car. I think that video game developers would 90% of the time have you simply mowing down an entire school district's worth of children because they could rather than to heighten the drama, or bring tension into the game.Nutcase said:
As it is most games are the equivalent of popcorn flicks, well everything except rpgs anyway. They don't have a very deep or emotional plot attached to them (well maybe they try for stuff but if falls flat on it's face as being poorly written or the characters are cardboard cutouts) except for a few very specific games that usually come from japan. I mean the use of a child as a soldier in movies usually has many scenes where the children are trying to reconcile the violence of their fight and the horrors they see, with the time when they were simply sitting with their family or playing with friends. Games don't usually have the tools to pull that off because as much as games are similar to art, Games are always always always centered around only one view of a string of events. You do get scenes where you see the machinations of the enemy but you never really dive into a secondary character because most players just don't care beyond who's helping them.
I honestly can't think of killing a more diverse group of people as contributing to a positive gameplay experience. Those who are saying that it would enrich games are accidentally forwarding the stereotype of games as being killing simulators. Some foolish developer will probably create a game like this, but most will steer clear on the grounds that they don't need working examples to justify Jack Thompson-like anti-game extremists.
In Saints Row 2 whenever I killed a female cop I felt like I had really made a moral mistake. Games such as Fable and Fallout which offer morality systems should add the ability to kill females and kids, but with more morality drop.
For what reason? If all you're looking for is a game that allows you to do that, well, then you might be able to find one (I did mention one in my last post).Shaves with a machete said:
I wonder how a game would play out if it transpired that the principal antagonist (and therefore, the person who's ultimate goal of yours it is to take down) is actually a child. Would be interesting to get to the end of say, an FPS, and find that after stocking up on ammo, health and fighting your way to the final showdown, you're confronted by nothing more than an otherwise helpless child, but not deny you the opportunity to gun them down. Would be a real kick in the teeth for those awaiting some epic final battle for sure, but would be interesting how people would act on that, I think.
It depends.
I don't remember hearing Fallout getting any attention for having the option to kill children, but it didn't require you to do it. So we could probably have the option to do that, as long as it is not forced upon us. Like, lets say your playing a Stealth game. You see a kid, sleeping with an weapon of some sort. You could kill him and not risk getting injured, or just sneak around him. Or you just don't really include many children. Not many children would be standing side-by-side with armed men and women. Teenagers, maybe. But a child would be occasional. Basically, this is how it would work.
For every 20 people you kill, 1 child has a 50% chance of appearing and trying to kill you. Or something like that.
I don't remember hearing Fallout getting any attention for having the option to kill children, but it didn't require you to do it. So we could probably have the option to do that, as long as it is not forced upon us. Like, lets say your playing a Stealth game. You see a kid, sleeping with an weapon of some sort. You could kill him and not risk getting injured, or just sneak around him. Or you just don't really include many children. Not many children would be standing side-by-side with armed men and women. Teenagers, maybe. But a child would be occasional. Basically, this is how it would work.
For every 20 people you kill, 1 child has a 50% chance of appearing and trying to kill you. Or something like that.