Poll: Homosexuality

[Pegghead]

I see nothing wrong with it, and the LGBT community has my full support.

 

[101flyboy]

Thank you for pointing out "tolerance". I've known men to actually say things like (actually quoting)
"I don't care if they're gay, but I'll beat the shit out of them if they hit on me."

What is it that makes this guy (and others) feel so threatened?

Insecurity in ones' sexuality, masculinity and overall identity. Men who base their entire lives on their pe*is and whose self-worth is based solely on what they do and who they screw. Men who have this "man code" mentality and think gay men break it. They are threatened by gay men because gay men aren't straight, sounds simple, but that's basically it. It puts straight men in the "I'm being chased" mentality, instead of being the chaser of women. Vulnerability. Men don't like that, makes them feel weak. The fact many gay men don't care to live my rigid gender codes, makes men think, oh, he's not a "real" man, so he's deserving of disrespect.

You see most of the comments here that are negative, basically say, I don't like it when they force their sexuality on me. Or, as long as they don't hit on me, it's fine. It's fear. Fear of something foreign, something you are not, and something you are insecure about, taking you over.

 

[101flyboy]

Support=Do you approve of homosexuality? Do you support it as an acceptable practice? Do you think it's OK to be gay? Do you support gay rights, whether passively or passionately?

 

[Mudze]

I support homosexuality, in a sense. It exist, and I believe homosexuals should be equal, but I approach it with the same cautious attitude that I do with feminism. Somehow, someway, people are going to take it too far and give the previously discriminated group too many rights and too little responsibility.

Why do I hold this opinion? Well, I'm about 20% homosexual myself, and it kind of sucks, for more reasons than just discrimination.

 

[Arkynomicon]

Don't care or judge people about their sexuality. They can be furries or have a fetish for garden gnomes for all I care.

So, Whatever float your boat.

 

[Raikazu]

Perople can't be persecuted for a natural phenomenon. People are, even unknowingly, simply following the Bible's misplaced views on sexuality because they were aware of it at the time. The only reason the Bible says that love is between a man and a woman is because homosexuality hadn't been prominent enough to make it into the book.

People need to realise that homophobia has the same impact on a society as racism and sexism and that people's minds need to get around the modern world, and try to evolve their old beliefs so that they fit into modern societal beliefs.

 

[101flyboy]

It's not so much that...It's people that play on it and are overly dramatic about their sexuality. I know two guys that are gay, but they're just like you or me. They live together, but if you ever saw them in town, they'd look like they were just two friends, and when asked if they're a couple, they just say "yeah".

Basically "I'm gay, deal with it" attitude.

The problem is that you're making assumptions that people are who more fem are INTENTIONALLY more fem acting because they want attention. Maybe they just aren't gender conforming. Maybe they are simply naturally more flamboyant. Not everyone is going to be cut from the same cloth, some people are naturally more exuberant than others. As long as that exuberance doesn't harm you directly, it isn't an issue.

Being gay is NOT a lifestyle. And no, the whole behind closed doors thing doesn't work. Gay people are gay inside and outside of their houses. It's not about them hiding their gayness, it's about your issues surrounding it and moving past them. And moving past your gender stereotypical mentality of what men "should" act like. There are no guidelines on being a man. Your basically saying gay people should act "normal", act like regular guys, basically be straight acting. But they are gay, and not all gay men are straight acting. So you sort of have to move on and get over it.

i think its more that as soon as people see gay men in particular acting in that cartoonish stereotype perpetuated by shows like will and grace almost instantly you lose some credibility, as you feel it (or it appears that you feel it) is more important to play into a stereotypical example of what you should be rather than what you are. And there are also people who intentionally too far that way to get attention.

Any person who entirely defines themselves by what it is considered their gender role should be like isn't somebody i want to know because they have no thought process.

(footnote i dont mind little bits of flamboyance that come with the territory but there has to be some substance to the individual. I would similarly dismiss females who slut up and only talk about clothes boys and clubbing)

But, again, that doesn't mean people do not act fem or are more flamboyant naturally. Because they do. It's not about being a stereotype for many of these men.

Everything you're saying is said by a lot of masculine gays, too. Oh, they give gay people a bad image. Why? Because they don't conform to what is considered normal. It's not a thought process for a lot of these fem gays. It's just that fact they are more feminine, and people can't handle that because it's like they are going against the "man code." It doesn't mean these gays are like, oh, well I'm going to go out of my way to show everyone how gay I can really be. They simply express themselves in a different manner. It's the same way anyone else expresses themselves, it's just different, rather than expressing themselves in a masculine demeanor, they do so in a more feminine way.

You should honestly get to know these people before automatically condemning them.

I do get to know them, i live with two. And they are the stereotype to the extreme. I know there are some who are naturally that fem but i find it hard to believe that is that large of a percentage of them, especially when 90% of all the lesbians i have met were exactly the same as a straight girl except they liked women. I believe a LOT of what is done is trying to act in the way that is seemingly socially acceptable to them.

It not that they don't conform to what is normal (i hate muscle bound twats who only talk about cars aswell) its that they entirely conform to the opposite. Its the concious act of deciding to be that far out there that bugs me. Totally conforming to what people expect you should be just makes you a dull individual.

The overly flamboyant nature was just a tool to express their sexual orientation and be proud of themselves at a time when nobody was, it was a way to stand up for your fellow gay and show you were the same. But they are accepted now, their doesnt need to be a big statement or any big show for attention.

AND THAT DAMN ACCENT, it annoys me on a science level because its the only non-geographic accent on the PLANET which exists purely to draw attention to an aspect of yourself. I mean its a staple of insecurity when you need to go around making sure people know exactly how you are just by your sound.

Probably best you don't requote this don't want a flame war.

I'm going to repeat. NOT ALL FEM GAY MEN DO THIS FOR ATTENTION. Many, if not most of them, are simply FEMININE ACTING.

You keep harping on the stereotypes. Yeah, they are more feminine acting. They may have the lisp. They may wear pink and work in fashion. But you keep acting as if these men choose to act like this, all of the time. That it's a constant act. That's ridiculous. Now, one can ask, are these men this way naturally, or have they been socially conditioned to behave this way. That's a different argument in totality. But subconsciously acting more fem is not the same as choosing to do so for attention. Plenty of straight men have a lisp too. Plenty of masculine gays have some feminine characteristics. Lesbians have their characteristics too, but most don't even care to notice, since most really don't care about lesbians. But you just don't like it when these men don't act like what men are supposed to act. You have this idea that men are like _________. But there are no GUIDELINES for what it means to behave as a man. There is NO such thing as acting straight or acting gay.

And to say that gay people are accepted now, is false. There is gaining acceptance. There is not "acceptance". Not when half of the countries of US and slightly less than half in the UK are against marriage equality. Not when hate crimes are on the increase in many countries. Acceptance needs to increase, and the only way that happens is by educating the masses.

no i have an idea that men/women SHOULD BE THEMSELVES. Acting into a stereotype ANY stereotype reduces individuality something each person should be very proud to have. And the reason i see it s acting into it is because people act into all kinds of stereotypes, from lonely gamers to depressed goths. Being yourself is what i take issue with here. And odds are against most of them being that similar. The outside influence being that is how they are expected to behave, and they don't question it. So yeah keep quoting me with anger if you want. I want people to be the best they can be as individuals buying into a mass identity is not that.

I have spoken to psychologists and sociologists about this and the responses i got were predominantly that gender roles perpetuated by society and television were defining them more than anything biologically. Don't know any biologists but I'll be sure to ask one when i meet one.

(footnote they may not consciously be doing it, but to have created a persona based off of television or societal expectation (even subconsciously) shows (to me) a lack of breaking the mould, or striving for individuality. Which is all we really have as human beings)

It's not acting into a stereotype. It is NOT a stereotype. It's who people ARE. Is that hard to understand. It shouldn't be. I'm not angry, I'm frustrated, you are like a brick wall. It's not an act, it's not a calculated move, it's simply what some people identify as.

Again, whether all fem-acting gays are such way because they have been socially conditioned or because that's what they came out the womb as, is a different argument all together. But PLENTY of men, gay and straight, show feminine traits at a younger age. It's not a complete side show. It's reality. Ultimately, if it HURTS NO-ONE, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? It doesn't AFFECT you unless you let it. So YOU should stop being affected by it.

And, if a person is subconsciously acting in such way, obviously, it's not a creation of a persona, it's a persona that they developed and which they have become and identified as. To say that shows a lack of individuality isn't really the case. They are simply individuals who choose to express their individuality in a way that is different than others choose to. It's not about breaking the mold, it's about, are you comfortable in your own skin? Are you a real person? Do you accept yourself? If you're answering yes, that's what matters.

 

[101flyboy]

I support homosexuality, in a sense. It exist, and I believe homosexuals should be equal, but I approach it with the same cautious attitude that I do with feminism. Somehow, someway, people are going to take it too far and give the previously discriminated group too many rights and too little responsibility.

Why do I hold this opinion? Well, I'm about 20% homosexual myself, and it kind of sucks, for more reasons than just discrimination.

Why does it suck? Feeling of despair or being alone? Or just wanting to be "like everyone else"?

Gay rights shouldn't be met with skepticism. Ultimately, one has to ask, what are too many rights? Because, we do have a self-checking society. If people get out of line, they are checked. They are reprimanded. Unless the boundaries of acceptable behavior in general completely change or go away, then none of that will be an issue.

 

[funguy2121]

The question is simple. Don't forget to add WHY you feel the way you do.

For my own vote, I'm a strong supporter of homosexuality, though I'm by no means gay myself. I firmly believe that, as long as it's not hurting anyone else, people should be able to live their lives however they damn well please. This includes being able to love and marry whomever they please.

So, escapists, How do YOU feel? And remember, tell us why you feel that way.

EDIT: Just so people will stop spouting it off, I realize that this is rather poorly phrased. I think most of you can glean my meaning though, without needing to point out that I could have worded this differently.

Ninja'd, by the OP!

 

[101flyboy]

It's not so much that...It's people that play on it and are overly dramatic about their sexuality. I know two guys that are gay, but they're just like you or me. They live together, but if you ever saw them in town, they'd look like they were just two friends, and when asked if they're a couple, they just say "yeah".

Basically "I'm gay, deal with it" attitude.

The problem is that you're making assumptions that people are who more fem are INTENTIONALLY more fem acting because they want attention. Maybe they just aren't gender conforming. Maybe they are simply naturally more flamboyant. Not everyone is going to be cut from the same cloth, some people are naturally more exuberant than others. As long as that exuberance doesn't harm you directly, it isn't an issue.

Being gay is NOT a lifestyle. And no, the whole behind closed doors thing doesn't work. Gay people are gay inside and outside of their houses. It's not about them hiding their gayness, it's about your issues surrounding it and moving past them. And moving past your gender stereotypical mentality of what men "should" act like. There are no guidelines on being a man. Your basically saying gay people should act "normal", act like regular guys, basically be straight acting. But they are gay, and not all gay men are straight acting. So you sort of have to move on and get over it.

i think its more that as soon as people see gay men in particular acting in that cartoonish stereotype perpetuated by shows like will and grace almost instantly you lose some credibility, as you feel it (or it appears that you feel it) is more important to play into a stereotypical example of what you should be rather than what you are. And there are also people who intentionally too far that way to get attention.

Any person who entirely defines themselves by what it is considered their gender role should be like isn't somebody i want to know because they have no thought process.

(footnote i dont mind little bits of flamboyance that come with the territory but there has to be some substance to the individual. I would similarly dismiss females who slut up and only talk about clothes boys and clubbing)

But, again, that doesn't mean people do not act fem or are more flamboyant naturally. Because they do. It's not about being a stereotype for many of these men.

Everything you're saying is said by a lot of masculine gays, too. Oh, they give gay people a bad image. Why? Because they don't conform to what is considered normal. It's not a thought process for a lot of these fem gays. It's just that fact they are more feminine, and people can't handle that because it's like they are going against the "man code." It doesn't mean these gays are like, oh, well I'm going to go out of my way to show everyone how gay I can really be. They simply express themselves in a different manner. It's the same way anyone else expresses themselves, it's just different, rather than expressing themselves in a masculine demeanor, they do so in a more feminine way.

You should honestly get to know these people before automatically condemning them.

I do get to know them, i live with two. And they are the stereotype to the extreme. I know there are some who are naturally that fem but i find it hard to believe that is that large of a percentage of them, especially when 90% of all the lesbians i have met were exactly the same as a straight girl except they liked women. I believe a LOT of what is done is trying to act in the way that is seemingly socially acceptable to them.

It not that they don't conform to what is normal (i hate muscle bound twats who only talk about cars aswell) its that they entirely conform to the opposite. Its the concious act of deciding to be that far out there that bugs me. Totally conforming to what people expect you should be just makes you a dull individual.

The overly flamboyant nature was just a tool to express their sexual orientation and be proud of themselves at a time when nobody was, it was a way to stand up for your fellow gay and show you were the same. But they are accepted now, their doesnt need to be a big statement or any big show for attention.

AND THAT DAMN ACCENT, it annoys me on a science level because its the only non-geographic accent on the PLANET which exists purely to draw attention to an aspect of yourself. I mean its a staple of insecurity when you need to go around making sure people know exactly how you are just by your sound.

Probably best you don't requote this don't want a flame war.

I'm going to repeat. NOT ALL FEM GAY MEN DO THIS FOR ATTENTION. Many, if not most of them, are simply FEMININE ACTING.

You keep harping on the stereotypes. Yeah, they are more feminine acting. They may have the lisp. They may wear pink and work in fashion. But you keep acting as if these men choose to act like this, all of the time. That it's a constant act. That's ridiculous. Now, one can ask, are these men this way naturally, or have they been socially conditioned to behave this way. That's a different argument in totality. But subconsciously acting more fem is not the same as choosing to do so for attention. Plenty of straight men have a lisp too. Plenty of masculine gays have some feminine characteristics. Lesbians have their characteristics too, but most don't even care to notice, since most really don't care about lesbians. But you just don't like it when these men don't act like what men are supposed to act. You have this idea that men are like _________. But there are no GUIDELINES for what it means to behave as a man. There is NO such thing as acting straight or acting gay.

And to say that gay people are accepted now, is false. There is gaining acceptance. There is not "acceptance". Not when half of the countries of US and slightly less than half in the UK are against marriage equality. Not when hate crimes are on the increase in many countries. Acceptance needs to increase, and the only way that happens is by educating the masses.

no i have an idea that men/women SHOULD BE THEMSELVES. Acting into a stereotype ANY stereotype reduces individuality something each person should be very proud to have. And the reason i see it s acting into it is because people act into all kinds of stereotypes, from lonely gamers to depressed goths. Being yourself is what i take issue with here. And odds are against most of them being that similar. The outside influence being that is how they are expected to behave, and they don't question it. So yeah keep quoting me with anger if you want. I want people to be the best they can be as individuals buying into a mass identity is not that.

I have spoken to psychologists and sociologists about this and the responses i got were predominantly that gender roles perpetuated by society and television were defining them more than anything biologically. Don't know any biologists but I'll be sure to ask one when i meet one.

(footnote they may not consciously be doing it, but to have created a persona based off of television or societal expectation (even subconsciously) shows (to me) a lack of breaking the mould, or striving for individuality. Which is all we really have as human beings)

It's not acting into a stereotype. It is NOT a stereotype. It's who people ARE. Is that hard to understand. It shouldn't be. I'm not angry, I'm frustrated, you are like a brick wall. It's not an act, it's not a calculated move, it's simply what some people identify as.

Again, whether all fem-acting gays are such way because they have been socially conditioned or because that's what they came out the womb as, is a different argument all together. But PLENTY of men, gay and straight, show feminine traits at a younger age. It's not a complete side show. It's reality. Ultimately, if it HURTS NO-ONE, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? It doesn't AFFECT you unless you let it. So YOU should stop being affected by it.

And, if a person is subconsciously acting in such way, obviously, it's not a creation of a persona, it's a persona that they developed and which they have become and identified as. To say that shows a lack of individuality isn't really the case. They are simply individuals who choose to express their individuality in a way that is different than others choose to. It's not about breaking the mold, it's about, are you comfortable in your own skin? Are you a real person? Do you accept yourself? If you're answering yes, that's what matters.

umm aside from the rest of the argument. There is a gay stereotype.It exists and a lot of gay men are that stereotype. Are you seriously trying to argue that that doesn't exist. Because it really does no matter how much you want to deny that. Whether or not they were born into it is a different thing which depends on what you believe (id much rather believe we have responsibility for our outcomes in life).

And aside from all that, your missing the crucial thing im taking issue with, im not taking issue with having some or a lot of the traits associated with it. Im taking issue with people that fully define themselves by said traits. Anybody who doesn't look beyond whats laid out straight infront of them for experiences in life is close minded. A trait i wish to have nothing to do with.

Here is the point. It's a "stereotype", but I should clarify what I meant, it's not just some fake created "hey look, that dude is gay, look at how he acts and dresses!" It's not like all blacks eat cornbread, or all women love shopping. No, it's a REAL way of being. A real sense of self. A lot of gay men do fit it, which is why it isn't a stereotype in that sense. It's not an act.

You are saying that these feminine gays fully define themselves by their femininity. But they don't. They are just feminine. They don't define themselves as anything, they don't classify themselves. They just are what they are.

We could say the SAME things about guys who are sports oriented. (Not all of them) They aren't actively defining or being something. They just are more into sports. They just are more masculine. You keep thinking that it's an act to be a fem gay, but for many of them if not most, it isn't whatsoever, and it's offensive to say it is.

 

[Arrrgh_Bruce]

I just dont think that people are that fussed about the issue anymore, except for religious persons. It has gotten to a point where the general public feel like homosexuality is just as common and 'normal' as hetrosexual relationships and that there isnt any real need for the 'loud and proud, accept us' stereotype anymore. The public knows everything and most of us support you now and it just comes across as either trying to just get attention or just being annoying. Well thats in my opinon anyway.

It may be that they feel like they are entitled to something as they have been opressed for most of history but I dont feel they are. I accept everything and want them to have full rights but as far as receiving some kind or recompense, not so much.

 

[Tom Hill]

I am indifferent because "supporting" a sexuality is like supporting an eye colour or preference for peanut butter over jam.

It's their business, my immediate primitive response is that of disgust when I think about two men having intercourse but that is because it is something I wouldn't do.

I don't care what other people's sexuality is, aslong as they arn't someone who I would never be attracted to, who is attracted to me. E.g. A creepy weird girl, or any man.

A gay man was attracted to me once, it was awkward.

 

[101flyboy]

I just dont think that people are that fussed about the issue anymore, except for religious persons. It has gotten to a point where the general public feel like homosexuality is just as common and 'normal' as hetrosexual relationships and that there isnt any real need for the 'loud and proud, accept us' stereotype anymore. The public knows everything and most of us support you now and it just comes across as either trying to just get attention or just being annoying. Well thats in my opinon anyway.

It may be that they feel like they are entitled to something as they have been opressed for most of history but I dont feel they are. I accept everything and want them to have full rights but as far as receiving some kind or recompense, not so much.

That's not true. Hate crimes are on the rise, and gay rights support is still in the 50s percentile only. There are still a lot of people who are anti-gay. And then a lot of people who are passively anti-gay. There are a lot of people living in a bubble, who have this, it's cool that you're gay, whatever mentality. A lot of gay people face hardships, they seek support for that reason, and they don't get a lot of it in many cases. That's where the issue is.

 

[101flyboy]

It's not so much that...It's people that play on it and are overly dramatic about their sexuality. I know two guys that are gay, but they're just like you or me. They live together, but if you ever saw them in town, they'd look like they were just two friends, and when asked if they're a couple, they just say "yeah".

Basically "I'm gay, deal with it" attitude.

The problem is that you're making assumptions that people are who more fem are INTENTIONALLY more fem acting because they want attention. Maybe they just aren't gender conforming. Maybe they are simply naturally more flamboyant. Not everyone is going to be cut from the same cloth, some people are naturally more exuberant than others. As long as that exuberance doesn't harm you directly, it isn't an issue.

Being gay is NOT a lifestyle. And no, the whole behind closed doors thing doesn't work. Gay people are gay inside and outside of their houses. It's not about them hiding their gayness, it's about your issues surrounding it and moving past them. And moving past your gender stereotypical mentality of what men "should" act like. There are no guidelines on being a man. Your basically saying gay people should act "normal", act like regular guys, basically be straight acting. But they are gay, and not all gay men are straight acting. So you sort of have to move on and get over it.

i think its more that as soon as people see gay men in particular acting in that cartoonish stereotype perpetuated by shows like will and grace almost instantly you lose some credibility, as you feel it (or it appears that you feel it) is more important to play into a stereotypical example of what you should be rather than what you are. And there are also people who intentionally too far that way to get attention.

Any person who entirely defines themselves by what it is considered their gender role should be like isn't somebody i want to know because they have no thought process.

(footnote i dont mind little bits of flamboyance that come with the territory but there has to be some substance to the individual. I would similarly dismiss females who slut up and only talk about clothes boys and clubbing)

But, again, that doesn't mean people do not act fem or are more flamboyant naturally. Because they do. It's not about being a stereotype for many of these men.

Everything you're saying is said by a lot of masculine gays, too. Oh, they give gay people a bad image. Why? Because they don't conform to what is considered normal. It's not a thought process for a lot of these fem gays. It's just that fact they are more feminine, and people can't handle that because it's like they are going against the "man code." It doesn't mean these gays are like, oh, well I'm going to go out of my way to show everyone how gay I can really be. They simply express themselves in a different manner. It's the same way anyone else expresses themselves, it's just different, rather than expressing themselves in a masculine demeanor, they do so in a more feminine way.

You should honestly get to know these people before automatically condemning them.

I do get to know them, i live with two. And they are the stereotype to the extreme. I know there are some who are naturally that fem but i find it hard to believe that is that large of a percentage of them, especially when 90% of all the lesbians i have met were exactly the same as a straight girl except they liked women. I believe a LOT of what is done is trying to act in the way that is seemingly socially acceptable to them.

It not that they don't conform to what is normal (i hate muscle bound twats who only talk about cars aswell) its that they entirely conform to the opposite. Its the concious act of deciding to be that far out there that bugs me. Totally conforming to what people expect you should be just makes you a dull individual.

The overly flamboyant nature was just a tool to express their sexual orientation and be proud of themselves at a time when nobody was, it was a way to stand up for your fellow gay and show you were the same. But they are accepted now, their doesnt need to be a big statement or any big show for attention.

AND THAT DAMN ACCENT, it annoys me on a science level because its the only non-geographic accent on the PLANET which exists purely to draw attention to an aspect of yourself. I mean its a staple of insecurity when you need to go around making sure people know exactly how you are just by your sound.

Probably best you don't requote this don't want a flame war.

I'm going to repeat. NOT ALL FEM GAY MEN DO THIS FOR ATTENTION. Many, if not most of them, are simply FEMININE ACTING.

You keep harping on the stereotypes. Yeah, they are more feminine acting. They may have the lisp. They may wear pink and work in fashion. But you keep acting as if these men choose to act like this, all of the time. That it's a constant act. That's ridiculous. Now, one can ask, are these men this way naturally, or have they been socially conditioned to behave this way. That's a different argument in totality. But subconsciously acting more fem is not the same as choosing to do so for attention. Plenty of straight men have a lisp too. Plenty of masculine gays have some feminine characteristics. Lesbians have their characteristics too, but most don't even care to notice, since most really don't care about lesbians. But you just don't like it when these men don't act like what men are supposed to act. You have this idea that men are like _________. But there are no GUIDELINES for what it means to behave as a man. There is NO such thing as acting straight or acting gay.

And to say that gay people are accepted now, is false. There is gaining acceptance. There is not "acceptance". Not when half of the countries of US and slightly less than half in the UK are against marriage equality. Not when hate crimes are on the increase in many countries. Acceptance needs to increase, and the only way that happens is by educating the masses.

no i have an idea that men/women SHOULD BE THEMSELVES. Acting into a stereotype ANY stereotype reduces individuality something each person should be very proud to have. And the reason i see it s acting into it is because people act into all kinds of stereotypes, from lonely gamers to depressed goths. Being yourself is what i take issue with here. And odds are against most of them being that similar. The outside influence being that is how they are expected to behave, and they don't question it. So yeah keep quoting me with anger if you want. I want people to be the best they can be as individuals buying into a mass identity is not that.

I have spoken to psychologists and sociologists about this and the responses i got were predominantly that gender roles perpetuated by society and television were defining them more than anything biologically. Don't know any biologists but I'll be sure to ask one when i meet one.

(footnote they may not consciously be doing it, but to have created a persona based off of television or societal expectation (even subconsciously) shows (to me) a lack of breaking the mould, or striving for individuality. Which is all we really have as human beings)

It's not acting into a stereotype. It is NOT a stereotype. It's who people ARE. Is that hard to understand. It shouldn't be. I'm not angry, I'm frustrated, you are like a brick wall. It's not an act, it's not a calculated move, it's simply what some people identify as.

Again, whether all fem-acting gays are such way because they have been socially conditioned or because that's what they came out the womb as, is a different argument all together. But PLENTY of men, gay and straight, show feminine traits at a younger age. It's not a complete side show. It's reality. Ultimately, if it HURTS NO-ONE, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? It doesn't AFFECT you unless you let it. So YOU should stop being affected by it.

And, if a person is subconsciously acting in such way, obviously, it's not a creation of a persona, it's a persona that they developed and which they have become and identified as. To say that shows a lack of individuality isn't really the case. They are simply individuals who choose to express their individuality in a way that is different than others choose to. It's not about breaking the mold, it's about, are you comfortable in your own skin? Are you a real person? Do you accept yourself? If you're answering yes, that's what matters.

umm aside from the rest of the argument. There is a gay stereotype.It exists and a lot of gay men are that stereotype. Are you seriously trying to argue that that doesn't exist. Because it really does no matter how much you want to deny that. Whether or not they were born into it is a different thing which depends on what you believe (id much rather believe we have responsibility for our outcomes in life).

And aside from all that, your missing the crucial thing im taking issue with, im not taking issue with having some or a lot of the traits associated with it. Im taking issue with people that fully define themselves by said traits. Anybody who doesn't look beyond whats laid out straight infront of them for experiences in life is close minded. A trait i wish to have nothing to do with.

Here is the point. It's a "stereotype", but I should clarify what I meant, it's not just some fake created "hey look, that dude is gay, look at how he acts and dresses!" It's not like all blacks eat cornbread, or all women love shopping. No, it's a REAL way of being. A real sense of self. A lot of gay men do fit it, which is why it isn't a stereotype in that sense. It's not an act.

You are saying that these feminine gays fully define themselves by their femininity. But they don't. They are just feminine. They don't define themselves as anything, they don't classify themselves. They just are what they are.

We could say the SAME things about guys who are sports oriented. (Not all of them) They aren't actively defining or being something. They just are more into sports. They just are more masculine. You keep thinking that it's an act to be a fem gay, but for many of them if not most, it isn't whatsoever, and it's offensive to say it is.

i do say the same thing about people who do sports to that degree, if all you do is spend all your time in the gym and know different weight lifting techniques then you are also one dimensional and i'll have nothing to do with that. If you pour too much into any one area of your life to the detriment of others its a universally bad thing, just like if i was Only into movies, or only into games, id be horribly boring. But im not i try sport i go hiking i learn languages i read i photograph. Putting yourself out there to experience the world is something everyone should do, life is too short not to be living.

I agree with what you're saying, but everything you're identifying are acts. Being feminine is not an act, it's who people are in many cases. That's the difference.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

I find it interesting that you are, and I quote, "an immoral bigot" if you DONT support homosexuality. Yet, its perfectly ok to slam christians, and slam people if they personally do not agree with it. People slamming my religion and calling me an immoral bigot offends me, and its wrong. If I WAS one, that would be something different, but I am most certainly not.

Well then maybe you should understanding why thinking lesbians and gay are beneath you is a bad idea... after all it always comes back to you in some form. THEN, you see why people get upset when ignorant statements are made about their sexual orientation and why they need to go hide it away from people who find it intolerable. If you're so offended (in a society that is largely Protestant Christian)then perhaps you should heed your own creeds words "Don't judge people, lest you be judged" and "do unto others, as you would have them do unto you".

So, let me get this straight... if I dont support it, that automatically means I think they are BENEATH me?? I guess that means that if I support the 360, but dont support the PS3, I think all PS3 users are beneath me. I guess that means that if I dont care for asparagus, then everyone that eats it is beneath me. How asinine can you be? I dont look down on anyone for their choices, I simply do not care for it myself. I have enough intelligence and maturity to be able to have my own decisions but realize that other peoples choices and decisions are their own, and by no means does that make me better than them for it.

Please, by all means, tell me when I judged someone else in my statements. I simply gave my personal opinion, as to which I am completely entitled to. The problems start when people begin to act as if their PERSONAL opinion is FACT, and then assume anyone without that opinion is beneath them. I never did that.

You, on the other hand.....

 

[101flyboy]

The truth of the situation is, a lot of people, an increasing amount, think it is immoral and quite frankly inhumane to be anti-gay. And to call sexual orientation a choice. A lot of people simply think it's unacceptable to be anti-gay, like it is unacceptable to be racist or sexist. So thinking that somehow you won't get heat for being anti-gay or holding a position that is not neutral/positive towards homosexuality/gay people, is either naive or ignorant. We all have our beliefs, but that doesn't make those beliefs acceptable.