Poll: I should respect Muslim Traditions regarding women?

[Charli]

In YOUR OWN country? NO. Never in a thousand years do you tolerate that kind of behaviour, they want to utilize 'Islamic law' (which it actually isn't, they're lying), they can go back to the countries they're from.
If it's not in a country of Christian/Catholic/Buddist/Hindu descent then theres not a whole lot that can be done.

Thats all I have to say on the matter.

 

[stompy]

Allah akbur

A Muslim friend of mine actually told me to yell that in the CBD district... we then ended up discussing how, if it were something like "In His glory!" or something said by the Crusaders, all I'd get would be some dirties, but if I shouted "Allah Akbar!", I'd be dead (I'm sub-continental, so they'd shoot to kill).

 

[Lord George]

its their traditions and its their country, we have no right to interfere in their customs same as they have no right to tell us how to live.

 

[MrSnugglesworth]

Little abusive to be honest. Ok frankly thats f*cking retarded. Muslims have gone TO FAR... Or whatever. Ah, I don't give a flying shit anyway.

 

[stompy]

Allah Akbur means "God is Great"

Yeh, I know. I'm just saying how it's a double-standard: if it were a praise of the Christian god, it's, at worst, some harmless nutter, but as soon as some brown guy shouts something positive about Islam, people would think he's got a bomb. Or white, being nutty isn't exactly something you discriminate about.

 

[Delicious]

Using religion as an excuse for violence is exacly the reason why alot of people hate religion. (myself included)

Yes, let's blame the excuse rather than the people.

Stupid, stupid line of logic. Honestly, that is like banning television because a murderer said that it told him to kill people.

 

[PersianLlama]

This isn't a tradition in Islam. It's part of tribal Arabic culture, so that doesn't even mean all Islamic countries have tribal traditions like this. Anyways, the key point is, as it's been said earlier in the topic, is that this has nothing to do with religion it is a scapegoat. As I recall, someone earlier in the topic said the problem primarily rests with people in rural areas. Yes, that's true because they have little education and aren't quite civilized.

 

[mike1921]

The right to free practice of religion of the people stoning her is interfering with her right to life. Life wins.

In other words, no.

The problem with that is she chose to live in a place where such things are accepted, if not common.

At any point in time, she could have walked away and not been subjected to such draconian beliefs. Granted, it would be extremely difficult and if she were caught she would be killed, but the fact remains that she stayed there. What that means is that no one has the right to interfere. It's their home, and both parties chose to stay there, everyone else needs to keep the fuck out.

Now if any women or victims of this system were to ask for help (by seeking asylum with another country, sending out a plea, or any other way), then someone should go in, fuck up some bad guys and call it a day. No other condition can possibly excuse the behavior.

and if they caught asking for help what do you think'll happen?

"if she were caught she would've been killed" You expect someone to risk their life in order to get out of something. Bull fucking shit.

Hmmm, are YOU going to be in the peace corps or army or whoever would be responsible for enforcing these things? Are you going to go to the region to tell millions that their traditions are backwards? Are you going to endure the possible violent resistence to your proposed plan?

If not: SHUT THE FUCK UP
If so: Good Luck and remember to bring some body armor.

Oh I love you... Same as those fat backwards hicks who support the war in iraq and talk about how "we" are doing them a favour yet don't get off their worthless asses and do anything one way or another.

Anyway I am conflicted on this issue. No. I do not support their ways and think they are barbaric. However... Who am I to criticize them? Its not my place to ***** on about how much they suck because I know that our society sucks too.
Basically if we cast stones at them (intentional pun) then they have the right to do the same to us. Thats how wars start.
I would personally just like a way out for these women, perhaps a few foregin embassys scattered around. If the women can make it to them they can claim asylum and be shipped off to another country.
Oh but then people would whine about all these foreginers taking their jobs wouldn't they.

Our society is way better than theres. Yes it's shit, I always say "america isn't great, it's just a lot less shitty than most of the alternatives".

Let them be pissed about our society, maybe we'll have a war that isn't pointless for once.

"if the women can make it to them".......are you serious?

 

[goodman528]

This kind of thread is asking to inflame public opinions, and should be locked immediately. It's feeding xenophobia.

 

[Agayek]

Spoiler: snip

The right to free practice of religion of the people stoning her is interfering with her right to life. Life wins.

In other words, no.

The problem with that is she chose to live in a place where such things are accepted, if not common.

At any point in time, she could have walked away and not been subjected to such draconian beliefs. Granted, it would be extremely difficult and if she were caught she would be killed, but the fact remains that she stayed there. What that means is that no one has the right to interfere. It's their home, and both parties chose to stay there, everyone else needs to keep the fuck out.

Now if any women or victims of this system were to ask for help (by seeking asylum with another country, sending out a plea, or any other way), then someone should go in, fuck up some bad guys and call it a day. No other condition can possibly excuse the behavior.

and if they caught asking for help what do you think'll happen?

"if she were caught she would've been killed" You expect someone to risk their life in order to get out of something. Bull fucking shit.

Hmmm, are YOU going to be in the peace corps or army or whoever would be responsible for enforcing these things? Are you going to go to the region to tell millions that their traditions are backwards? Are you going to endure the possible violent resistence to your proposed plan?

If not: SHUT THE FUCK UP
If so: Good Luck and remember to bring some body armor.

Oh I love you... Same as those fat backwards hicks who support the war in iraq and talk about how "we" are doing them a favour yet don't get off their worthless asses and do anything one way or another.

Anyway I am conflicted on this issue. No. I do not support their ways and think they are barbaric. However... Who am I to criticize them? Its not my place to ***** on about how much they suck because I know that our society sucks too.
Basically if we cast stones at them (intentional pun) then they have the right to do the same to us. Thats how wars start.
I would personally just like a way out for these women, perhaps a few foregin embassys scattered around. If the women can make it to them they can claim asylum and be shipped off to another country.
Oh but then people would whine about all these foreginers taking their jobs wouldn't they.

Our society is way better than theres. Yes it's shit, I always say "america isn't great, it's just a lot less shitty than most of the alternatives".

Let them be pissed about our society, maybe we'll have a war that isn't pointless for once.

"if the women can make it to them".......are you serious?

Then send a spy or somesuch in and ask them. Believe it or not, some people willingly participate in systems like that.

Just because you disagree doesn't mean you can charge into their homes and dictate how they live their lives.

I agree with you about the practices being barbaric and they should not be done, ever. That said, it does not give anyone the right to charge in and dictate their society to them. The mere fact that they do not rebel against the system means they choose to stay there.

And yes, I do expect people to risk their lives to escape from a fatally abusive situation. Any gain requires risk. That is a fact of life. If they want to change their situation they will have to risk their lives to enact that change. What you seem to forget is that the only way to enact real change is for those people to want to change themselves; otherwise they simply revert as soon as the troops leave.

You cannot force people to act as you think is right, especially in their own homes. Not only is it morally and ethically reprehensible, it's impossible to enforce. Take the gun from their heads, and their behavior will almost immediately revert.

That's not to say if somebody tried to pull that shit in the US or UK or wherever, you shouldn't beat them to death with their own arm, just that charging in and forcing change on other countries accomplishes precisely nothing.

 

[Saskwach]

People have been making a lot of unsubstantiated claims about what the Islamic tradition on stoning is and is not. Being a stickler for evidence, I sought some out: Link [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=6SC_4TORPzsC&pg=PA391&lpg=PA391&dq=incidents+of+muhammad+stoning&source=bl&ots=x7sPfawd-h&sig=6iTyXhhEWQgS-aHrT3IQizuA1Wg&hl=en&ei=thbgSePAHIzU7APx74mEDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA391,M1]
In it what the Koran has to say about stoning is somewhat more nuanced than either side will admit here.
For one, stoning for adultery is indeed permitted by Muhammad - he even ordered a few in his time. However, it seems he always showed great restraint, setting a series of rules (at least inherently by his own example):
1)There should be four eye-witnesses. Even if the judge saw the deed, he needs four eye-witnesses.
2)The eye-witnesses must be reliable.
3)The four witnesses must have found the two adulterers in the act.
4)All four must agree on the time, place and the persons involved in the act.
5)"Personal commitment" in plain words from one or both of the adulterers.
6)If the adulterer/s later retract their statement, they should be released.
It seems Muhammad went to great lengths to avoid stonings, and set up a series of laws that made them incredibly hard to do.
Still, this doesn't totally absolve him. We can argue all we want that he was ahead of his time and place, that he set up a series of laws that effectively made stoning a willing suicide (if the accused had no problem with lying); but that doesn't mean that there weren't better examples even at the time.
Necroswanson is making a hubbub about Islamic stonings not being backward because Islam is older than America. Forgetting that comparing religions to nations is silly (many Islamic countries are quite new - are they then backward according to this nation-age metric?) it should be remembered that Christianity is centuries older than Islam. Christ was very clear about the stoning of adulterers: "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone." Muhammad knew of Judaism and Christianity - he even set himself up as the final prophet in that tradition's prophetic line - as in his time there were several Christian states to the near south and west (the Byzantine empire for example, which ruled the Balkans, modern Syria, Ledanon and Turkey, and North Africa) so it's clear that no matter how careful and merciful he was, he was still 'behind the times' - just not quite so behind as some Muslim judges of today.

 

[Valentine82]

Wait didn't Muhammad get it on with an 8 year old girl and own multiple wives?

Seriously, I don't respect any traditions regarding women that do not treat them as equals and grant them all the rights of men. Why should I? I'm not invading other countries trying to impose my will on everybody else but guess what, I have to live in this world too and when people are passing laws and enforcing the view that I'm worth less than a man because my reproductive organs don't dangle around on the outside then the way I see it those people are not deserving of my respect.

If I were born in Iran I would be treated for the most part as if I were property, why should I respect that?

 

[Valentine82]

@Anonymouse

Speaking out against injustice against women is doing something about it, and speaking out against the oppression and injustice women suffer throughout much of the islamic world doesn't make people "fat backwards hicks who support the war in iraq".

Grow up. This is an issue of women's rights, it's not a religious issue, religion just happens to be used as an excuse to violate women's rights. Trust me, if it were Christianity today and not Islam I'd be criticizing the Christian traditions regarding women, in fact I still do because even though the Christian world has come a long way it still has a ways to go.

 

[Disconnected]

Religion (or anything else, actually) is no "reason" to treat anyone so horrifically. That poor woman, and those disgusting bad-excuses-for-human men who threw stones at her. >_< I'd wish terrible things upon them, but that would make my post hypocritical. Damnit...

But, seriously, men and women are both living creatures with feelings, ideas, thoughts and potential. People should stop thinking up ways/"reasons" to hate each other and just treat people with the respect they all deserve regardless of petty differences such as gender, skin colour, and the hundreds of other things that people descriminate on...

 

[Pumpkin_Eater]

Religions should be judged by the overall effect they have on society. It's the most fair and objective measure of their validity. Islam finishes last on my scale (fringe cults excluded; too many for me to accurately assess them) below Scientology. Buddhism is the only religion I currently give a positive score to.

 

[Valentine82]

I'm not so sure I'd give Buddhism a positive score, the whole denial of the existence of a self can be quite harmful and Buddhist are quite often complacent ludites who never get anything done.

 

[Nmil-ek]

Nope you dont have to respect anyones beleifs, I dont and damn proud of it, if your a biggot, homophobe, preacher of fear and hate I will gladly tell you to piss off. Respect is earned not given away like something cheap, cant stand all this politicaly correct stuff myself arseholes are arseholes.

 

[Clashero]

Seriously, 12,5% of The Escapist condones stoning women for being raped?
Idiots.

 

[clicketycrack]

Check out this site. Its pretty funny to me.
http://www.ahiida.com/