Poll: If you've ever downloaded something illegally, YOU are to blame for SOPA/PIPA.

[Rasmus Emilsson]

Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.

I'm not asking anyone to admit they've downloaded illegally, nor am I referring to any specific person when I say "you." It is true that Congress is dumb when it comes to the internet, but it is also true that they wouldn't be making these bills if people would just pay for the things they want like they should. We shouldn't be blaming congress for these bills (at least not fully), we should be blaming media pirates and demanding THEM to stop.

Sure, just like DRM and every other damn stupid thing that's come out of the business the past years.

I'm wondering how MPAA,RIAA and ESA counts, okay, four million people downloaded Crysis 2, however, who said that 3 million of these people didn't go buy the game after they tried it?
Not to mention some studies that say that heavy pirates buy more media, from music to film to games.

The problem is NOT the pirates. The problem is lackluster products and a mindset that "the customer is the enemy"

because that would be fucking stupid. I really find it hard to believe that some pirates something, they have the full thing right there and then decide "I'm going to go buy it legally for shits and giggles."

If 4 million people commit crime, then serve the sentence, they all still commited fucking crimes. Also stop blaming big greedy corporations for everything. There's already a superhero stopping them. It's called the invisible hand of the free market. The man playing his Xbox cannot complain about the greed of microsoft.

Damn corporations, becoming successful through faults of the consumer!

I don't know about you, but me and my friends do this, if there isn't any other way to test out a game, how am I supposed to test it? I want to pay for what I enjoy, therefore, I download a game if it doesn't have a demo (which 95% of the games don't have, because so many games today are so lackluster it's not even funny)

When you want to buy a sweater, do you just go into a random store with your eyes closed and pick one? no, you search for one you like and get into a booth and test it. This is no problem for ANY other business than the media-industry where they think you should just pump your money into something completely unknown that you might even not like. Therefore my quote "The customer is the enemy"

Games have gameplay trailers and a lot of other things to help you decide if it's something you want. I don't go into a store looking for a sweater with my eyes closed. I go to my size, which i know will fit based on previous experience, find one that looks appetizing and then buy.

Also, Every EB games in australia has a 7 day return policy, where if you don't like it you can return it for a full refund. There is no excuse to pirate an available game with this in place.

You mean everyone lives in Australia or all the game retailers have this refund deal?
You mean gameplay trailers give a good real-world interpretation of how the game will play out? yeah right.

You seriously mean that if i download a game, then I like the game I go buy it, I'm not as good a person as you are? get off your high horse, I'm just a smart consumer, but the climate in the media industry don't like smart consumers, because I can see though all the bullshit the spew at me.

One example, I had never even heard of Kingdoms of Amalur before steam put up the demo, now, Kingdom of Amalur's developer got another customer, because I liked the demo.

 

[Reggie Rock]

I really find it hard to believe that some pirates something, they have the full thing right there and then decide "I'm going to go buy it legally for shits and giggles."

This is incredibly short-sighted, and I'll tell you why: I remember a time where a person introduced me to who is now one of my favorite rappers. How, you may ask? File-sharing (or pirating, I'm not gonna argue what term you wanna use). I grabbed some files, made a CD, and listened the shit out it I liked it so much.

Now? I'll physically buy a new album from that person every chance I get. Why, you may be wondering when I "have the full thing right there"? Because I like his products, so I'm gonna support him in hopes that he'll make more products that I may like and purchase. And I'm just one out of gods know how many like-minded people.

It's not as alien a concept as you may think.

Well assuming what you say is true, then i stand corrected, some people will buy things simply to support developers. But did you buy the album you had already pirated? But your friend could have also bought the album could he have not? You also go on to say that you buy to support the developers, which is the problem alot of us have with piracy. It gives nothing to the developers, but reaps all the benefits of buying legally.

Saying you were introduced through piracy isn't an arguement for it. You could have been introduced any number of ways. But the fact remains that you shouldn't have done it regardless of outcome.

Obviously you don't put much stock in the fact that Pirates are often better consumers than those who are not. If you don't believe me look up the Swiss governments research on the topic that points out that those who pirate material are the ones who spend more of their money on average than those who don't pirate anything at all

You mean the like 3 people from switzerland who don't pirate?

While some big consumers may pirate, that doesn't mean the piracy is the cause of it. Correlation and Causation are being mixed up here me-thinks.

 

[Reggie Rock]

Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.

I'm not asking anyone to admit they've downloaded illegally, nor am I referring to any specific person when I say "you." It is true that Congress is dumb when it comes to the internet, but it is also true that they wouldn't be making these bills if people would just pay for the things they want like they should. We shouldn't be blaming congress for these bills (at least not fully), we should be blaming media pirates and demanding THEM to stop.

Sure, just like DRM and every other damn stupid thing that's come out of the business the past years.

I'm wondering how MPAA,RIAA and ESA counts, okay, four million people downloaded Crysis 2, however, who said that 3 million of these people didn't go buy the game after they tried it?
Not to mention some studies that say that heavy pirates buy more media, from music to film to games.

The problem is NOT the pirates. The problem is lackluster products and a mindset that "the customer is the enemy"

because that would be fucking stupid. I really find it hard to believe that some pirates something, they have the full thing right there and then decide "I'm going to go buy it legally for shits and giggles."

If 4 million people commit crime, then serve the sentence, they all still commited fucking crimes. Also stop blaming big greedy corporations for everything. There's already a superhero stopping them. It's called the invisible hand of the free market. The man playing his Xbox cannot complain about the greed of microsoft.

Damn corporations, becoming successful through faults of the consumer!

I don't know about you, but me and my friends do this, if there isn't any other way to test out a game, how am I supposed to test it? I want to pay for what I enjoy, therefore, I download a game if it doesn't have a demo (which 95% of the games don't have, because so many games today are so lackluster it's not even funny)

When you want to buy a sweater, do you just go into a random store with your eyes closed and pick one? no, you search for one you like and get into a booth and test it. This is no problem for ANY other business than the media-industry where they think you should just pump your money into something completely unknown that you might even not like. Therefore my quote "The customer is the enemy"

Games have gameplay trailers and a lot of other things to help you decide if it's something you want. I don't go into a store looking for a sweater with my eyes closed. I go to my size, which i know will fit based on previous experience, find one that looks appetizing and then buy.

Also, Every EB games in australia has a 7 day return policy, where if you don't like it you can return it for a full refund. There is no excuse to pirate an available game with this in place.

You mean everyone lives in Australia or all the game retailers have this refund deal?
You mean gameplay trailers give a good real-world interpretation of how the game will play out? yeah right.

You seriously mean that if i download a game, then I like the game I go buy it, I'm not as good a person as you are? get off your high horse, I'm just a smart consumer, but the climate in the media industry don't like smart consumers, because I can see though all the bullshit the spew at me.

One example, I had never even heard of Kingdoms of Amalur before steam put up the demo, now, Kingdom of Amalur's developer got another customer, because I liked the demo.

Goods can be stolen.
Services can be used illegally.

Games are both a good and a service, with the disc being the good and the game being the service. These companies are providing you with a service that you feel somehow entitled to. Not sure if you'll like a game? Don't fucking buy it. Pirating "just to make sure" is still piracy and still illegal.

Museums are a good example. If i just waltz in and start looking around, is that okay? It's not costing them any money, and maybe i'll tell my friends and come back and pay one day! Museum's don't have demos, but i go in there because i'm confident that it's something i'll enjoy. If it isn't then oh well, i guess i wont be going to anymore museums. But the museum needs to make money for providing the service it does or else it can't continue to function. If we let one person in for free, then who's going to pay?

Companies make the games, Companies distribute the games, Companies have the right to sell their product/service however they damn well please.

 

[Naeras]

SOPA was never about piracy anyways, that was just an excuse.

 

[ablac]

Oh, I forgot something: people are tripping about Hollywood and whatnot losing money over pirates? Read this shit [http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/243439/will_pixar_regret_making_up.html].

Not to spoil anything, but have you any idea how many video game and PC accessories I can buy with that amount of money?! HAVE YOU?!

And these fuckers are whining about "lost profits"...

Well yeah if you make a million dollars of a game but would have obtained 10 million dollars had everyone who played it payed for it then you lost 9 million dollars in sales. As far as your concerned every single person pirated it so they could avoid paying when they could have payed (I disagree with the reasons people give for pirating but im just trying to show their point of view) and therefore it is a lost sale. It works the same for anyone no matter how rich or poor they are. I know its difficult to feel sympathy for big companies or even to likke them but if you play what they made and you obtained it through piracy rather than paying for it then you are harming the company, indie or activision, and those who actually paid for it. And if you play a game beyond what would reasonably be a demo then you are saying that it is worth paying for. And it is possible to, uknow, not play games that are either 'too expensive' or not worth buying for the myriad of bullshit reasons pirates give.

 

[ablac]

SOPA was never about piracy anyways, that was just an excuse.

But the fact that it could be used as the excuse means piracy is a problem and the fact that it really isnt a justifiable act for the majority of the time means i feel no love for those who think themselves too good to pay for their games while the honest customers must bare the brunt of crap like SOPA. SOPA wasnt really about piracy but piracy was the evidence that made SOPA seem legitamate enough to actually get considered. Piracy is its own problem anyway but its reached the pint where it allows crap like SOPA to be listened to.

 

[Reggie Rock]

Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.

I'm not asking anyone to admit they've downloaded illegally, nor am I referring to any specific person when I say "you." It is true that Congress is dumb when it comes to the internet, but it is also true that they wouldn't be making these bills if people would just pay for the things they want like they should. We shouldn't be blaming congress for these bills (at least not fully), we should be blaming media pirates and demanding THEM to stop.

Sure, just like DRM and every other damn stupid thing that's come out of the business the past years.

I'm wondering how MPAA,RIAA and ESA counts, okay, four million people downloaded Crysis 2, however, who said that 3 million of these people didn't go buy the game after they tried it?
Not to mention some studies that say that heavy pirates buy more media, from music to film to games.

The problem is NOT the pirates. The problem is lackluster products and a mindset that "the customer is the enemy"

because that would be fucking stupid. I really find it hard to believe that some pirates something, they have the full thing right there and then decide "I'm going to go buy it legally for shits and giggles."

If 4 million people commit crime, then serve the sentence, they all still commited fucking crimes. Also stop blaming big greedy corporations for everything. There's already a superhero stopping them. It's called the invisible hand of the free market. The man playing his Xbox cannot complain about the greed of microsoft.

Damn corporations, becoming successful through faults of the consumer!

I don't know about you, but me and my friends do this, if there isn't any other way to test out a game, how am I supposed to test it? I want to pay for what I enjoy, therefore, I download a game if it doesn't have a demo (which 95% of the games don't have, because so many games today are so lackluster it's not even funny)

When you want to buy a sweater, do you just go into a random store with your eyes closed and pick one? no, you search for one you like and get into a booth and test it. This is no problem for ANY other business than the media-industry where they think you should just pump your money into something completely unknown that you might even not like. Therefore my quote "The customer is the enemy"

Games have gameplay trailers and a lot of other things to help you decide if it's something you want. I don't go into a store looking for a sweater with my eyes closed. I go to my size, which i know will fit based on previous experience, find one that looks appetizing and then buy.

Also, Every EB games in australia has a 7 day return policy, where if you don't like it you can return it for a full refund. There is no excuse to pirate an available game with this in place.

You mean everyone lives in Australia or all the game retailers have this refund deal?
You mean gameplay trailers give a good real-world interpretation of how the game will play out? yeah right.

You seriously mean that if i download a game, then I like the game I go buy it, I'm not as good a person as you are? get off your high horse, I'm just a smart consumer, but the climate in the media industry don't like smart consumers, because I can see though all the bullshit the spew at me.

One example, I had never even heard of Kingdoms of Amalur before steam put up the demo, now, Kingdom of Amalur's developer got another customer, because I liked the demo.

Goods can be stolen.
Services can be used illegally.

Games are both a good and a service, with the disc being the good and the game being the service. These companies are providing you with a service that you feel somehow entitled to. Not sure if you'll like a game? Don't fucking buy it. Pirating "just to make sure" is still piracy and still illegal.

Companies make the games, Companies distribute the games, Companies have the right to sell their product/service however they damn well please.

Morallity =/= Legality

Your Mind = Blown

Weed tends to be pretty illegal too, doesn't stop millions of people from lighting up.

Did i ever say that everything illegal was immoral. No, infact i think a lot of laws are plain retarded. But you can't actually be saying that piracy is morally good can you? Are you implying that since millions of people do something it is okay to do so?
Murder is illegal but it doesn't stop millions of people from murdering.
Like i said, someone who offers a service also controls how the service is sold.

 

[Rasmus Emilsson]

Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.

I'm not asking anyone to admit they've downloaded illegally, nor am I referring to any specific person when I say "you." It is true that Congress is dumb when it comes to the internet, but it is also true that they wouldn't be making these bills if people would just pay for the things they want like they should. We shouldn't be blaming congress for these bills (at least not fully), we should be blaming media pirates and demanding THEM to stop.

Sure, just like DRM and every other damn stupid thing that's come out of the business the past years.

I'm wondering how MPAA,RIAA and ESA counts, okay, four million people downloaded Crysis 2, however, who said that 3 million of these people didn't go buy the game after they tried it?
Not to mention some studies that say that heavy pirates buy more media, from music to film to games.

The problem is NOT the pirates. The problem is lackluster products and a mindset that "the customer is the enemy"

because that would be fucking stupid. I really find it hard to believe that some pirates something, they have the full thing right there and then decide "I'm going to go buy it legally for shits and giggles."

If 4 million people commit crime, then serve the sentence, they all still commited fucking crimes. Also stop blaming big greedy corporations for everything. There's already a superhero stopping them. It's called the invisible hand of the free market. The man playing his Xbox cannot complain about the greed of microsoft.

Damn corporations, becoming successful through faults of the consumer!

I don't know about you, but me and my friends do this, if there isn't any other way to test out a game, how am I supposed to test it? I want to pay for what I enjoy, therefore, I download a game if it doesn't have a demo (which 95% of the games don't have, because so many games today are so lackluster it's not even funny)

When you want to buy a sweater, do you just go into a random store with your eyes closed and pick one? no, you search for one you like and get into a booth and test it. This is no problem for ANY other business than the media-industry where they think you should just pump your money into something completely unknown that you might even not like. Therefore my quote "The customer is the enemy"

Games have gameplay trailers and a lot of other things to help you decide if it's something you want. I don't go into a store looking for a sweater with my eyes closed. I go to my size, which i know will fit based on previous experience, find one that looks appetizing and then buy.

Also, Every EB games in australia has a 7 day return policy, where if you don't like it you can return it for a full refund. There is no excuse to pirate an available game with this in place.

You mean everyone lives in Australia or all the game retailers have this refund deal?
You mean gameplay trailers give a good real-world interpretation of how the game will play out? yeah right.

You seriously mean that if i download a game, then I like the game I go buy it, I'm not as good a person as you are? get off your high horse, I'm just a smart consumer, but the climate in the media industry don't like smart consumers, because I can see though all the bullshit the spew at me.

One example, I had never even heard of Kingdoms of Amalur before steam put up the demo, now, Kingdom of Amalur's developer got another customer, because I liked the demo.

Goods can be stolen.
Services can be used illegally.

Games are both a good and a service, with the disc being the good and the game being the service. These companies are providing you with a service that you feel somehow entitled to. Not sure if you'll like a game? Don't fucking buy it. Pirating "just to make sure" is still piracy and still illegal.

Museums are a good example. If i just waltz in and start looking around, is that okay? It's not costing them any money, and maybe i'll tell my friends and come back and pay one day! Museum's don't have demos, but i go in there because i'm confident that it's something i'll enjoy. If it isn't then oh well, i guess i wont be going to anymore museums. But the museum needs to make money for providing the service it does or else it can't continue to function. If we let one person in for free, then who's going to pay?

Companies make the games, Companies distribute the games, Companies have the right to sell their product/service however they damn well please.

As I have said, I want to buy my media.

However, you seem to think that having a motto of "Treat your customers like shit" is a good thing. This shit would NOT fly in any other branch. A waiter does'nt come forth to you saying "yo ************, you look like shit, suck my cock and pay up"

No, these bills are brought up because the media industry is run by unadaptable old men. Look at the adapting companies, like Steam, Spotify etc. these companies are going really fucking good. You know why?
Because they have good prices, the money goes to the right people (the developers, artists) and most of all, they give the people what they want.

 

[SageRuffin]

Well assuming what you say is true, then i stand corrected, some people will buy things simply to support developers. But did you buy the album you had already pirated?

You got me on that one - I did not. It's just as well, it's near impossible to find that album if you didn't already have it to begin with.

But trust me, if I can buy it, I will for the reasons stated in my last post.

But your friend could have also bought the album could he have not?

Who's to say he didn't?

You also go on to say that you buy to support the developers, which is the problem alot of us have with piracy. It gives nothing to the developers, but reaps all the benefits of buying legally.

Now you're projecting. I said nothing about "developers". I don't even try to pirate games for numerous reasons.

Also, you assume that all pirated versions of whatever are clear cut, 100% duplicates. There may be technical issues that came with copying the item in question. Using music still, the person who copied the song(s) may have used an old method, resulting in a massive dip in sound quality. The person who originally had the song(s) may have gotten sloppy in the ripping process, again resulting in a drop in quality. The copy may be a copy of a copy OF A COPY, and so on; the sound quality then degrades more and more each time. Maybe the song never sounded all that great in the first place (it happens).

This may then compel the person to actually buy the original if only to get a clean, original, or otherwise authentic copy of the song(s) in question.

People at large may be stupid, panicky, and dangerous savages, but they're still more complex than you give them credit. People can handle a situation in as many ways as there are people involved.

Saying you were introduced through piracy isn't an arguement for it.

You're right, except I'm not arguing for it (okay, I kinda am in the previous point, but that wasn't the original intent the first time). I was simply pointing out flawed logic in your own post.

You could have been introduced any number of ways.

That's a little difficult when you'd never heard of the artist in question yourself. And nobody else had heard of the rapper either? Yeah, okay. While "not all that wander are lost", randomly searching for nothing isn't gonna get you but so far. The chances of me discovering the artist, say, on my own through Google has such a lopsided probability that I'd have better chances with the lottery.

But the fact remains that you shouldn't have done it regardless of outcome.

And miss the chance of discovering a fine if highly unorthodox rapper? No disrespect to you at all, but fuck all that.

Trust me, I understand what you're saying. I'm simply showing you that the situation at large isn't as black or white as you seem to be implying.

I've said all I need to. Take it or don't - I won't force you either way (not that I have the means to do so anyway). On that note, I'm out.

 

[Pebkio]

Bleh I say, bleh.

Digital distribution started the walk to SOPA/PIPA. Those bills are less about stopping piracy and more about stopping non-publisher digital distribution sold in the guise of stopping piracy. sure, if piracy didn't exist, they'd have to use a different excuse.

But I didn't see SOPA/PIPA like laws being considered when VHS tapes were being pirated. Y'know: "No company may never make VHS tapes that are able to be recorded upon, under penalty of massive fines." or "If it is shown that someone, somewhere, recorded a show on the television, then the broadcast station can be ordered not to broadcast that entire channel. Also, that broadcast station can not carry any channel they decide without fear of reprisal or legal action."

 

[Reggie Rock]

Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.

I'm not asking anyone to admit they've downloaded illegally, nor am I referring to any specific person when I say "you." It is true that Congress is dumb when it comes to the internet, but it is also true that they wouldn't be making these bills if people would just pay for the things they want like they should. We shouldn't be blaming congress for these bills (at least not fully), we should be blaming media pirates and demanding THEM to stop.

Sure, just like DRM and every other damn stupid thing that's come out of the business the past years.

I'm wondering how MPAA,RIAA and ESA counts, okay, four million people downloaded Crysis 2, however, who said that 3 million of these people didn't go buy the game after they tried it?
Not to mention some studies that say that heavy pirates buy more media, from music to film to games.

The problem is NOT the pirates. The problem is lackluster products and a mindset that "the customer is the enemy"

because that would be fucking stupid. I really find it hard to believe that some pirates something, they have the full thing right there and then decide "I'm going to go buy it legally for shits and giggles."

If 4 million people commit crime, then serve the sentence, they all still commited fucking crimes. Also stop blaming big greedy corporations for everything. There's already a superhero stopping them. It's called the invisible hand of the free market. The man playing his Xbox cannot complain about the greed of microsoft.

Damn corporations, becoming successful through faults of the consumer!

I don't know about you, but me and my friends do this, if there isn't any other way to test out a game, how am I supposed to test it? I want to pay for what I enjoy, therefore, I download a game if it doesn't have a demo (which 95% of the games don't have, because so many games today are so lackluster it's not even funny)

When you want to buy a sweater, do you just go into a random store with your eyes closed and pick one? no, you search for one you like and get into a booth and test it. This is no problem for ANY other business than the media-industry where they think you should just pump your money into something completely unknown that you might even not like. Therefore my quote "The customer is the enemy"

Games have gameplay trailers and a lot of other things to help you decide if it's something you want. I don't go into a store looking for a sweater with my eyes closed. I go to my size, which i know will fit based on previous experience, find one that looks appetizing and then buy.

Also, Every EB games in australia has a 7 day return policy, where if you don't like it you can return it for a full refund. There is no excuse to pirate an available game with this in place.

You mean everyone lives in Australia or all the game retailers have this refund deal?
You mean gameplay trailers give a good real-world interpretation of how the game will play out? yeah right.

You seriously mean that if i download a game, then I like the game I go buy it, I'm not as good a person as you are? get off your high horse, I'm just a smart consumer, but the climate in the media industry don't like smart consumers, because I can see though all the bullshit the spew at me.

One example, I had never even heard of Kingdoms of Amalur before steam put up the demo, now, Kingdom of Amalur's developer got another customer, because I liked the demo.

Goods can be stolen.
Services can be used illegally.

Games are both a good and a service, with the disc being the good and the game being the service. These companies are providing you with a service that you feel somehow entitled to. Not sure if you'll like a game? Don't fucking buy it. Pirating "just to make sure" is still piracy and still illegal.

Museums are a good example. If i just waltz in and start looking around, is that okay? It's not costing them any money, and maybe i'll tell my friends and come back and pay one day! Museum's don't have demos, but i go in there because i'm confident that it's something i'll enjoy. If it isn't then oh well, i guess i wont be going to anymore museums. But the museum needs to make money for providing the service it does or else it can't continue to function. If we let one person in for free, then who's going to pay?

Companies make the games, Companies distribute the games, Companies have the right to sell their product/service however they damn well please.

As I have said, I want to buy my media.

However, you seem to think that having a motto of "Treat your customers like shit" is a good thing. This shit would NOT fly in any other branch. A waiter does'nt come forth to you saying "yo ************, you look like shit, suck my cock and pay up"

No, these bills are brought up because the media industry is run by unadaptable old men. Look at the adapting companies, like Steam, Spotify etc. these companies are going really fucking good. You know why?
Because they have good prices, the money goes to the right people (the developers, artists) and most of all, they give the people what they want.

In no way do i think treating the customer like shit is a good thing. But as the waiter he has the right to choose how he serves you without harming anyone. If you think the waiter is a douche, then don't eat at the place that helps pay his salary, allowing him to be a douche for even longer.

I hate steam (For my own reasons) and so i don't buy games from there. Im not helping support those i don't like.

What im saying is that when someone makes something, they can choose how it is used. Say i made a cake. I let everyone have a piece except Steve, because he is a douche. Steve comes and takes a piece. I would have thrown away that piece and it may have been a waste, but i told steve he couldn't have it. It was my choice to decide who eats my cake right?

 

[ablac]

Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.

I'm not asking anyone to admit they've downloaded illegally, nor am I referring to any specific person when I say "you." It is true that Congress is dumb when it comes to the internet, but it is also true that they wouldn't be making these bills if people would just pay for the things they want like they should. We shouldn't be blaming congress for these bills (at least not fully), we should be blaming media pirates and demanding THEM to stop.

Sure, just like DRM and every other damn stupid thing that's come out of the business the past years.

I'm wondering how MPAA,RIAA and ESA counts, okay, four million people downloaded Crysis 2, however, who said that 3 million of these people didn't go buy the game after they tried it?
Not to mention some studies that say that heavy pirates buy more media, from music to film to games.

The problem is NOT the pirates. The problem is lackluster products and a mindset that "the customer is the enemy"

because that would be fucking stupid. I really find it hard to believe that some pirates something, they have the full thing right there and then decide "I'm going to go buy it legally for shits and giggles."

If 4 million people commit crime, then serve the sentence, they all still commited fucking crimes. Also stop blaming big greedy corporations for everything. There's already a superhero stopping them. It's called the invisible hand of the free market. The man playing his Xbox cannot complain about the greed of microsoft.

Damn corporations, becoming successful through faults of the consumer!

I don't know about you, but me and my friends do this, if there isn't any other way to test out a game, how am I supposed to test it? I want to pay for what I enjoy, therefore, I download a game if it doesn't have a demo (which 95% of the games don't have, because so many games today are so lackluster it's not even funny)

When you want to buy a sweater, do you just go into a random store with your eyes closed and pick one? no, you search for one you like and get into a booth and test it. This is no problem for ANY other business than the media-industry where they think you should just pump your money into something completely unknown that you might even not like. Therefore my quote "The customer is the enemy"

Games have gameplay trailers and a lot of other things to help you decide if it's something you want. I don't go into a store looking for a sweater with my eyes closed. I go to my size, which i know will fit based on previous experience, find one that looks appetizing and then buy.

Also, Every EB games in australia has a 7 day return policy, where if you don't like it you can return it for a full refund. There is no excuse to pirate an available game with this in place.

You mean everyone lives in Australia or all the game retailers have this refund deal?
You mean gameplay trailers give a good real-world interpretation of how the game will play out? yeah right.

You seriously mean that if i download a game, then I like the game I go buy it, I'm not as good a person as you are? get off your high horse, I'm just a smart consumer, but the climate in the media industry don't like smart consumers, because I can see though all the bullshit the spew at me.

One example, I had never even heard of Kingdoms of Amalur before steam put up the demo, now, Kingdom of Amalur's developer got another customer, because I liked the demo.

Goods can be stolen.
Services can be used illegally.

Games are both a good and a service, with the disc being the good and the game being the service. These companies are providing you with a service that you feel somehow entitled to. Not sure if you'll like a game? Don't fucking buy it. Pirating "just to make sure" is still piracy and still illegal.

Companies make the games, Companies distribute the games, Companies have the right to sell their product/service however they damn well please.

Morallity =/= Legality

Your Mind = Blown

Weed tends to be pretty illegal too, doesn't stop millions of people from lighting up.

He isnt saying that its wrong because its illegal hes saying that those who produce the game have the right to decide how it is distributed and hat pirating is saying that actually they dont deserve to be payed for what they made but that its still worth playing. Piracy is illegal AND morally wrong so please stop patronising those you disagree with and behave with at least some maturity.

 

[SageRuffin]

Well yeah if you make a million dollars of a game but would have obtained 10 million dollars had everyone who played it payed for it then you lost 9 million dollars in sales. As far as your concerned every single person pirated it so they could avoid paying when they could have payed (I disagree with the reasons people give for pirating but im just trying to show their point of view) and therefore it is a lost sale. It works the same for anyone no matter how rich or poor they are. I know its difficult to feel sympathy for big companies or even to likke them but if you play what they made and you obtained it through piracy rather than paying for it then you are harming the company, indie or activision, and those who actually paid for it. And if you play a game beyond what would reasonably be a demo then you are saying that it is worth paying for. And it is possible to, uknow, not play games that are either 'too expensive' or not worth buying for the myriad of bullshit reasons pirates give.

Man, do more people need to work on reading comprehension...

Look, I understand why some higher-ups are worried about lost profits and the sort, and their reasoning makes sense from a certain point of view. Hell, I can perfectly roll with that reasoning! But it's still hard to take these punk-ass mega-corps seriously when, once upon a time, they made VCRs and video tapes analogous to "lonely defenseless housewives" (and that's just a paraphrase).

Don't believe me on that last part? Look it up yourself. The RI and MPAA freaked the fuck out when record players and video tapes were created, respectively (I forget exactly, but I think those are the earliest accounts for both).

And for everyone else reading this, please stop with the projecting. I never said anything about games being "too expensive" and resorting to piracy as a result; I built myself a roughly $1200 PC and bought everything over the course of 2 paychecks and still had more than enough dollars for important stuff like food and bills and such, so I'm certainly not trying to use that excuse. Hell, I don't even like to buy used games!

So please stop trying to put words in my mouth (in my post?).

 

[ablac]

What im saying is that when someone makes something, they can choose how it is used. Say i made a cake. I let everyone have a piece except Steve, because he is a douche. Steve comes and takes a piece. I would have thrown away that piece and it may have been a waste, but i told steve he couldn't have it. It was my choice to decide who eats my cake right?

So you would rather throw something away and watch a person go hungry rather than share just because you happen to not like someone.

And you lost your moral high ground just like that.

Steve is not in a situation of cake or starvation he just didnt get a nice thing because hes a dick and the person who made it decided he didnt want to give him any. He never said he starved to death. If you feel so strongly then make sure that every crumb of food yuo dont eat ends up in someone else belly until youre doing that dont take an analogy to its ridiculous extremes just so you can feel as if you won an argument when all youre doing is being rather petty. Grow up.

 

[quiet_way]

How thick can ya get, seriously? The simple fact is that SOPA, PIPA, and any other four-letter combination of random acronymity that the government can publish is nothing more than a power grab, just like many of the other things that the government here in the good ol' U.S. of A. has been doing lately (recess appointments anyone?) It's just a further limitation upon the freedoms that we supposedly enjoy and a reminder from the government that they can screw with us at any time. Piracy just makes a good excuse, like the Depression or Jar Jar Binks. Who better to wave around like a large heavy stick than a group of people who's label already has negative connotations (in this case, "pirates".) Never mind that the idea of piracy is dreck, just come out swinging that weapon and use it to bludgeon the little people into submission. Not like any average American has any concept of what piracy is supposed to be anyway. Say words like "terrorism" and "piracy" these days and the huddled masses huddle a little tighter and beg their great big Uncle Sam to make the monsters go away, usually by sticking his big government dick up their collective assholes and telling them that they like it.

 

[getoffmycloud]

Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.

I'm not asking anyone to admit they've downloaded illegally, nor am I referring to any specific person when I say "you." It is true that Congress is dumb when it comes to the internet, but it is also true that they wouldn't be making these bills if people would just pay for the things they want like they should. We shouldn't be blaming congress for these bills (at least not fully), we should be blaming media pirates and demanding THEM to stop.

Sure, just like DRM and every other damn stupid thing that's come out of the business the past years.

I'm wondering how MPAA,RIAA and ESA counts, okay, four million people downloaded Crysis 2, however, who said that 3 million of these people didn't go buy the game after they tried it?
Not to mention some studies that say that heavy pirates buy more media, from music to film to games.

The problem is NOT the pirates. The problem is lackluster products and a mindset that "the customer is the enemy"

because that would be fucking stupid. I really find it hard to believe that some pirates something, they have the full thing right there and then decide "I'm going to go buy it legally for shits and giggles."

If 4 million people commit crime, then serve the sentence, they all still commited fucking crimes. Also stop blaming big greedy corporations for everything. There's already a superhero stopping them. It's called the invisible hand of the free market. The man playing his Xbox cannot complain about the greed of microsoft.

Damn corporations, becoming successful through faults of the consumer!

I don't know about you, but me and my friends do this, if there isn't any other way to test out a game, how am I supposed to test it? I want to pay for what I enjoy, therefore, I download a game if it doesn't have a demo (which 95% of the games don't have, because so many games today are so lackluster it's not even funny)

When you want to buy a sweater, do you just go into a random store with your eyes closed and pick one? no, you search for one you like and get into a booth and test it. This is no problem for ANY other business than the media-industry where they think you should just pump your money into something completely unknown that you might even not like. Therefore my quote "The customer is the enemy"

If they aren't giving you the option of testing the product beforehand just don't buy it and send an e-mail to the company telling them you didn't buy the game because there was no demo rather than pirating it which then allows companies to use crazy DRM and create bills like SOPA its simple really just don't give them an excuse and don't give the facts that 4 million people pirated something