Poll: If you've ever downloaded something illegally, YOU are to blame for SOPA/PIPA.

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Lev The Red

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Aug 5, 2011
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seeing as Burnie makes his video content (Red vs. Blue, most notably) free to watch, but sells to his his users the right to download his videos (for $5 a month, and you can download pretty much every video on roosterteeth.com), i understand where he is coming from.

if piracy did not exist, there would be no radical laws trying to prevent it. in that respect, it does exist because of us. but then again, if the jews didn't exist, then there probably wouldn't have been a holocaust (you win, godwin). just because something happens because of us doesn't mean it is our "fault." and it especially doesn't make any reactionary... actions acceptable.
 

Tanis

The Last Albino
Aug 30, 2010
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And if women were kept in the house they'd never get raped.
So lets take all the women out of the workforce and schools and toss them back into their parent's homes.


Yep.
Don't know WHY anyone would argue with this 'logic'.
 

DJDarque

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Aug 24, 2009
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This is one of the times where I realize how stupid Mr. Burnie Burns can be. It shows that he doesn't know anything about the bill besides the what mainstream media wanted people to know. If he actually did any research he would see the bigger picture.

I'm as anti-piracy as the next guy, but in this case it's more of a scapegoat than anything.
 
Apr 24, 2008
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Owyn_Merrilin said:
No, individual people downloading the occasional file aren't the cause of SOPA, nor are commercial pirates, for that matter. The cause of SOPA and its ilk is simply that the entertainment industry used to have a monopoly which became unsustainable the instant the internet came into existence, and are fighting tooth and nail to slow down or prevent the inevitable. They don't honestly care about pirates -- or at least the ones that know what they're doing don't. It's a front to keep up a veneer of legality, as well as to make the shareholders happy that their employees (yes, business executives are employes, not usually employers) are doing what they can to further maximize profits that are already maximized under the old business model -- which nobody wants to be the first to break away from. What this stuff is really about is preserving the stranglehold on distribution.

The recording industry has long enjoyed a world where every few years they get a new distribution format, which requires their customers to re-purchase their libraries. The internet is ultimately the end of that business model -- even with legal digital distribution schemes, physical medium is no longer an issue, to say nothing of illegal copyright infringement. This also says nothing of the fact that the internet creates a true global market (so no more exorbitant rates for countries that these cartels randomly decide can afford it), or any of the other myriad changes the internet made to the world. Basically, the internet has destroyed their business model, it has whether piracy gets completely shut down or not, and they're trying to intimidate the denizens of the web into not recognizing that. They've already lost the battle for hearts and minds, and they'll lose the overall battle in the long run, but it's going to be a while until the law catches up to technology -- like, say, 40 years or so for the millenials to finally take over for both the baby boomers and the gen X-ers.

Edit: Oh, before someone tells me "well, if there was no piracy, they wouldn't have that scapegoat!" -- you're right, they wouldn't have that scapegoat. These people are fully capable of cooking up a scapegoat for anything they want to do. If piracy didn't exist, they'd turn to child porn, or drug sales, or wikileaks, or any other thing on the internet that they could get people mad enough about to slip what they actually want done by in the name of preventing the scapegoat from happening. Heck, look at the games industry: piracy has been minimized as far as it feasibly can be. So what did the industry do? If you said "feel good about their record profits and stop trying to get even more control over the industry[footnote]and they really have been posting record profits in a down economy, despite all the complaints about piracy killing the industry[/footnote]", you'd be wrong. They started going after the used market, something that was completely legal but they could apply the same spurious logic to that they did piracy. This is not surprising. The surprising thing is that so many people bought it, instead of going "wait, if used games are worse for the industry than piracy, doesn't that mean that piracy is actually good for the industry?[footnote]Note to mods: I did not say that piracy is actually good for the industry. It's just that used games /are/, so logically, if used games are worse for the industry than piracy, either piracy is a great thing for the industry, or it's not, and they're lying when they say used games are worse.[/footnote]"
This is a really good post. I'm surprised it hasn't be quoted yet.

Something that I think needs to be addressed, seeing as this has become an "us" and "them" blame assigning game, is that the "us" is not nearly as organised and consistent as the "them". The public have no unifying beliefs or goals, it's just chaos. The industry is united and powerful enough to be lobbying for law change...not the same thing.

What is obvious is that horrifying precedents are consistently being set, and I have trouble understanding why anyone would choose to side with the industry(and by extension what is happening)when the industry doesn't give a damn about you. The extradition of foreigners from foreign lands for crimes that aren't crimes in their own countries is not ok. Legislation that is so vague that even legitimate online businesses are going to be under threat is not ok.

We have the power to understand when they're trying to sell us shite, and we have the means of distributing our own creativity without their input or support. This is what scares them, and they're not justified in what they're doing.
 

Rasmus Emilsson

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Jun 22, 2010
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Rocklobster99 said:
Could someone explain to me exactly how SOPA/PIPA would stop piracy?
It wouldn't in any way, to try to stop piracy is an automatically losing battle.

Sexual Harassment Panda said:
Owyn_Merrilin said:
No, individual people downloading the occasional file aren't the cause of SOPA, nor are commercial pirates, for that matter. The cause of SOPA and its ilk is simply that the entertainment industry used to have a monopoly which became unsustainable the instant the internet came into existence, and are fighting tooth and nail to slow down or prevent the inevitable. They don't honestly care about pirates -- or at least the ones that know what they're doing don't. It's a front to keep up a veneer of legality, as well as to make the shareholders happy that their employees (yes, business executives are employes, not usually employers) are doing what they can to further maximize profits that are already maximized under the old business model -- which nobody wants to be the first to break away from. What this stuff is really about is preserving the stranglehold on distribution.

The recording industry has long enjoyed a world where every few years they get a new distribution format, which requires their customers to re-purchase their libraries. The internet is ultimately the end of that business model -- even with legal digital distribution schemes, physical medium is no longer an issue, to say nothing of illegal copyright infringement. This also says nothing of the fact that the internet creates a true global market (so no more exorbitant rates for countries that these cartels randomly decide can afford it), or any of the other myriad changes the internet made to the world. Basically, the internet has destroyed their business model, it has whether piracy gets completely shut down or not, and they're trying to intimidate the denizens of the web into not recognizing that. They've already lost the battle for hearts and minds, and they'll lose the overall battle in the long run, but it's going to be a while until the law catches up to technology -- like, say, 40 years or so for the millenials to finally take over for both the baby boomers and the gen X-ers.

Edit: Oh, before someone tells me "well, if there was no piracy, they wouldn't have that scapegoat!" -- you're right, they wouldn't have that scapegoat. These people are fully capable of cooking up a scapegoat for anything they want to do. If piracy didn't exist, they'd turn to child porn, or drug sales, or wikileaks, or any other thing on the internet that they could get people mad enough about to slip what they actually want done by in the name of preventing the scapegoat from happening. Heck, look at the games industry: piracy has been minimized as far as it feasibly can be. So what did the industry do? If you said "feel good about their record profits and stop trying to get even more control over the industry[footnote]and they really have been posting record profits in a down economy, despite all the complaints about piracy killing the industry[/footnote]", you'd be wrong. They started going after the used market, something that was completely legal but they could apply the same spurious logic to that they did piracy. This is not surprising. The surprising thing is that so many people bought it, instead of going "wait, if used games are worse for the industry than piracy, doesn't that mean that piracy is actually good for the industry?[footnote]Note to mods: I did not say that piracy is actually good for the industry. It's just that used games /are/, so logically, if used games are worse for the industry than piracy, either piracy is a great thing for the industry, or it's not, and they're lying when they say used games are worse.[/footnote]"
This is a really good post. I'm surprised it hasn't be quoted yet.

Something that I think needs to be addressed, seeing as this has become an "us" and "them" blame assigning game, is that the "us" is not nearly as organised and consistent as the "them". The public have no unifying beliefs or goals, it's just chaos. The industry is united and powerful enough to be lobbying for law change...not the same thing.

What is obvious is that horrifying precedents are consistently being set, and I have trouble understanding why anyone would choose to side with the industry(and by extension what is happening)when the industry doesn't give a damn about you. The extradition of foreigners from foreign lands for crimes that aren't crimes in their own countries is not ok. Legislation that is so vague that even legitimate online businesses are going to be under threat is not ok.

We have the power to understand when they're trying to sell us shite, and we have the means of distributing our own creativity without their input or support. This is what scares them, and they're not justified in what they're doing.
I pretty much want to sex up Owyn_Merrilin for explaining the whole situation so beutifully!
 

LetalisK

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May 5, 2010
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I'd rather blame SOPA/PIPA on dumbass politicians that have no clue what they're talking about and even showed a measure of condescending animosity towards those that do.
 

AstylahAthrys

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Apr 7, 2010
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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
No. Whoever Burnie Burns is, I hope many people told him how fucking retarded he is.
I'm flabbergasted that you just insulted Burnie Burns. He's a fucking genius and I love him to pieces.

I feel like I need to clarify something: Burnie and the rest of the podcast did not like SOPA or PIPA. They thought it was way too much and not the right way to deal with the problem. However, anti-piracy laws wouldn't need to exist if there ever was piracy. SOPA was NOT the way to handle it, but he is right. How they said it was "There would be no need for these laws that go way too far if the problem wasn't there in the first place." (I am paraphrasing, but it's what he said)

Of course corporations would find other ways to be greedy if there wasn't SOPA. If piracy didn't exist I'm sure they'd charge an arm and a leg for DVDs and CDs. Of course SOPA was more about their greed. He's just saying that free speech on the internet would not be in jeopardy if it wasn't for piracy.

Lev The Red said:
seeing as Burnie makes his video content (Red vs. Blue, most notably) free to watch, but sells to his his users the right to download his videos (for $5 a month, and you can download pretty much every video on roosterteeth.com), i understand where he is coming from.
And it's $10 for 6 months. I've been an RT sponsor for years now. Worth every penny to support those guys.
 

flamedance58

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May 2, 2008
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So let's say there's a game out and I want to try it but there's no demo and videos don't show enough of the game to show me of good it is. I have no one I know that has the game.

Do I just spend $60 and hope that it's good?

I have a friend who pirates games and if their good he'll pay for 'em and buy the full version.

If I illegally download music like however many hundreds of thousands do does that mean it's my fault that I don't want to buy an entire CD just to rip 1 song off it? $15 for 1 song?
Also don't say iTunes as you can't play that shit on anything other than iTunes :p

Quite honestly all this SOPA/PIPA/ETC stuff seems to be just politicians overreacting on matters that they don't fully understand the full impact the bills and laws they are trying to pass will cause on the media world not to mention the internet.
 

Raesvelg

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Oct 22, 2008
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FelixG said:
More like 27% don't know jack about political realities.
"Political realities", lol. Yes, it's all a giant conspiracy to suppress free speech, and has nothing to do with the billions of dollars that corporations see, correctly or not, slipping through their fingers as a result of piracy.

Scars Unseen said:
That, or they understand the meaning of the word scapegoat. It's also possible that they can spot a century long pattern when they see one.
Scapegoated for what, pray tell?

Piracy?

Or is this another of those misplaced beliefs that somehow SOPA/PIPA are not about piracy?

MrDeckard said:
REALLY? We're going to start the Youtube thing with polls?
I'm easily entertained. And now it's 76%, which is just downright depressing.

Long story short; if piracy didn't exist, or wasn't practical on a massive scale, the way it is now, there'd be no need for bills like SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/whatever-A, because there'd be no problem to address.

It's not scapegoating, it's not a massive conspiracy, it's corporate interests exerting their power to influence politics to address a problem which they perceive as costing them billions of dollars. If the problem didn't exist, then they wouldn't be taking these actions.

So yes.

If you pirate, you are contributing to the problem, which puts you at the root cause of SOPA. Much like if you steal, you are at the root cause of laws against theft; if you murder, you are the root cause of laws against murder, and so on.

If nobody ever broke the law, we'd have no need for laws.
 

flamedance58

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May 2, 2008
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FelixG said:
flamedance58 said:
If I illegally download music like however many hundreds of thousands do does that mean it's my fault that I don't want to buy an entire CD just to rip 1 song off it? $15 for 1 song?
Also don't say iTunes as you can't play that shit on anything other than iTunes :p
What you do is buy it on iTunes THEN you download it elsewhere to avoid the itunes limitation.

I know any number of people who will buy a retail PC game (normally Ubisoft) then download a cracked version so they can have a game that actually works
The music thing doesn't really work that I'm sure...that's maybe for ROMs as it's legal, from what I gather, to use a rom if you HAVE the physical copy since we don't always want to dig up our old systems or GBAs.
And in some instances the game no longer exists, like those tournament games that you literally can't obtain w/o spending $2000 on it.

For games how does that even work? Are you talking about fan patches or mods that fix the game?
I'm also talking about wanting to try out a game that has no demo. There's been several games in my past that I've pirated and found it to be completely awful and very glad I didn't spend the $50-80 on it to be horribly disappointed.
 

General BrEeZy

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Jul 26, 2009
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"No single drop of water believes they are to blame for the flood."
Its a 'team effort', if we want to make that difference, we individuals just need to start changing, instead of waiting for others to go first. because if we all just went for it, we'd turn around and not see anyone 'behind us' or 'in front', so-to-speak, we'd all be side by side.
 

Raesvelg

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Oct 22, 2008
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FelixG said:
Actually yes, it is a conspiracy (although to most people a transparent one) to control distribution methods, instead of adapting to the times they want to stifle any new methods by buying politicians.
You might be on to something... if the industries in question hadn't already embraced the digital distribution platform.

And, y'know, if SOPA/PIPA had had anything to do with stopping legal digital distribution. But, oddly enough, those bills were drafted to prevent piracy. Not Steam. Or iTunes. Or Netflix. Or Amazon. Or Origin. Or Gamestop. Or Marvel. Or I think you might get the idea by now.
 

Ninmecu

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May 31, 2011
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I'm amazed no one posted this yet...rofl Though, to contribute to the discussion, yes, SOPA in it's current iteration would not exist without piracy. However, as has been pointed out in several posts prior to this one-they'd have introduced an alternative, just as powerful and far reaching as this one is. Between the youtube video someone posted on Page 4(I think), the points made on the latest Jimquisition and the fact that large corporations have been fighting the courts to alter copyright laws for litterally decades in order to stop IP's from becoming Public Domain, it's difficult, if not outright impossible, for me to sympathize with the anti-pirates and SOPA/PIPA supporters.
 

OldNewNewOld

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Mar 2, 2011
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It's the damn congressmen's fault.
Piracy has some impact on it, but it's not the fault of pirates. The congressmen are there to create laws the fix problems. If they don't understand a situation and create a bad law, it's their damn fault for not trying to understand that.

SOPA to the internet is like nuking an ant hill. You will not kill all ants, but you will make the whole area contaminated and ruined for many years to come and kill almost anything else.
The congressmen wanted to nuke (sopa) an ant hill (pirates). Now tell me that's the fault of the ants, or the fault of retarded congressmen who don't know about many, better solution to exterminate those ants without hurting the whole ecosystem (the internet).

I find it depressing that so many people don't realize that laws like SOPA/PIPA/ACTA aren't there to battle piracy. Piracy is just an excuse for a law to control the internet. As someone already said, look at Putin's problems. Every media house that tried reporting about him was shut down. Do you really thing that other politicans don't want that kind of power? Don't tell me "we have freedom of speech". That shit doesn't exist anymore. There are already laws that can trow you into jail without any reason, without trail and without any explanation.
The only difference between the USA (and some EU countries) and Iran and co. is that the western worlds know how to create falls freedom of speech.

The internet gives to much power to the people. Easier ways to get together, exchange ideas, morals, political views... The politicians know they aren't working for the people's good. They work for their own good. People finally come to realize that.
 
Aug 1, 2010
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Raesvelg said:
MrDeckard said:
REALLY? We're going to start the Youtube thing with polls?
I'm easily entertained. And now it's 76%, which is just downright depressing.

Long story short; if piracy didn't exist, or wasn't practical on a massive scale, the way it is now, there'd be no need for bills like SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/whatever-A, because there'd be no problem to address.

It's not scapegoating, it's not a massive conspiracy, it's corporate interests exerting their power to influence politics to address a problem which they perceive as costing them billions of dollars. If the problem didn't exist, then they wouldn't be taking these actions.

So yes.

If you pirate, you are contributing to the problem, which puts you at the root cause of SOPA. Much like if you steal, you are at the root cause of laws against theft; if you murder, you are the root cause of laws against murder, and so on.

If nobody ever broke the law, we'd have no need for laws.
I agree to a point.

Of course, piracy created the need for laws against it.

However, as I said before, it's the ignorant old men on the hill who went about it so damn poorly.

Again, there needs to be some options other than "Yes" and "No"