Poll: If you've ever downloaded something illegally, YOU are to blame for SOPA/PIPA.

[Raesvelg]

I don't think you are giving people enough credit, if that was true then things like the Humble Indie Bundle making over 2 million $ twice on a "give what you want" payment model wouldn't work, nor would donation-based models... yet they've proven often enough that they can work and are largely fueled by good-will, something that most companies don't seem to be able to harness even if they tried.

Of course, the estimates generally support the idea that at least 25% of the people who got the first bundle pirated it, and that didn't even account for torrents, just direct downloads.

Pirating a bundle they could have gotten for a penny.

And you say I should give them credit?

Secondly, what piracy affects, overall, is not the little guy. The little guy is operating on such a small scale that even a substantial amount of piracy will typically not destroy his chances of making a decent profit.

The bundles, all told, have made something like $11 million thus far, which isn't too bad when your games probably cost you a few thousand dollars, typically in lost earning potential for people who program the entire thing themselves in their spare time.

A game like SW:TOR, on the other hand, with budgets in the hundreds of millions of dollars, simply cannot survive on a similar model.

Those numbers they are reporting are highly overinflated and disingenuous at best:

You may not I'm not using their numbers, or the other side's numbers, because I don't trust anyone with an agenda.

The problem with the numbers is that they represent unknown quantities at best. I can say that Thor was pirated 8 million times (which is a comfortable minimum), and if we assume a $10 average cost-per-view (which is, frankly, rather high) then we can say that that film alone lost $80 million to piracy.

Except that we can't know how many people would actually have watched the film anyway, or in what format, or whether they'd have shared that price with friends, or any of the other imponderables.

So you wind up with studies that can show... pretty much whatever the author of the "study" wants it to show.

You mean like doing FBI raids in foreign nations like in the case against Megaupload because of the PRO-IP Act, causing dozens over dozens of Filehosters worldwide to close down operations as there is no possible way to control what someone is uploading or them trying to have a British student extradited for something that isn't illegal in Britain? I thought "Team America: World Police" was a parody.

I wasn't aware that Megaupload was a small-scale content creator. Since they don't actually create anything.

That aside, and leaving out the fact that Megaupload was brazenly and blatantly violating copyright protections, and circulating internal memos which admitted as much, it's not like they were the only game in town, and it's conspicuous that quite a few of their competitors with better track records are largely unconcerned about the fate of their former rival.

Am I a fan of the takedown? Not really, I think it was heavy-handed, and more importantly intentionally heavy-handed, in effect designed to serve as a warning to take those DMCA notices seriously. There certainly could have been a quieter way to handle the situation, but given the scale of the offenses and the apparently level of culpability involved among the executives, I'm not overly surprised that Megaupload was the one chosen to serve as an example to the rest.

 

[mjc0961]

Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.

Agreed completely. These laws/bills/etc are bad because they're so broad in their goal of stopping piracy that it lets companies go after people who aren't doing anything wrong. If they made versions that still allowed the companies to stop piracy but didn't leave them free reign to do nearly anything else they wanted, I'd be all for them.

Yes, companies lobbying to get bills like this passed are kinda shit. Yes, politicians who stand there and think their bills are good as is are kinda shit. But overall, it's really the pirates who are to blame. Would companies want things like SOPA if they didn't have people constantly illegally downloading their stuff? Maybe, but if they tried under that circumstance, who would be willing to go along with them? Being able to wave around piracy numbers and claim lost revenue and job losses (whether or not every pirate would have bought the game is another point that's not important right now; what's important is that companies SAY every pirate download is a lost sale and get lawmakers to believe them when they say it) is what gets people to initially support such bills. "Lost revenue and lost jobs, you say?! Indeed, we must do something about this!" Without pirates constantly downloading stuff, what would companies be able to use as an excuse to push such bills?

So yeah, ultimately, I blame the pirates for crap like this. They're the real targets of the bills, and the only problems with the bills are that they're too vague. I have no problem with the stopping piracy bit, just stop making these things so vague that they could threaten innocent people.

 

[Krantos]

Not that you'll get people to admit fault, but yes, this is (mostly) true.

I say mostly because the lack of intelligent discourse in congress on the matter is shameful, and they have the responsibility to be knowledgeable about the things they make laws about. However, if you pirate, you have contributed to the current state of affairs.

SOPA, PIPA, DRM, etc, are aspects of a war raging between ignorant companies with their congressional allies against irresponsible pirates. The rest of us are the ones stuck in the crossfire getting screwed by both sides.

Funnily enough, I might have answered differently, but at work just last night I was talking to some people I work with about the whole thing when one guy piped up about how upset he was over the whole Megaupload thing.

His reason? Now he can't get games. That's right, he openly acknowledged that he pirates heavily. In fact, he says he hasn't paid for a game in 5 years. Worst part of it? He didn't really understand about SOPA, and he didn't even know what DRM is. He has a hacked 360 and downloads all his game for that. He doesn't know and doesn't care what the implications of his actions are, nor that the current state of affairs is largely the fault of people like him.

So internet users can blame politicians all they want (they deserve it), but don't let the pirates off the hook. This is as much their fault as anyone's.

 

[mjc0961]

*snip*

How ironic that you would link to a stolen copy of the video rather than RoosterTeeth's original upload:

 

[brainslurper]

No. Whoever Burnie Burns is, I hope many people told him how fucking retarded he is.

When a soccer mom comes out and calls for normal footballs to be banned in schools because her kid got hit in the head with one and has a concussion, we call her stupid. When an athiest comes out and says religion is a bad thing because of the crusades, we point to all the good things religion and religious people have achieved. And when someone comes out and says we should cripple the internet because a few people use it as means of doing something illegal, thats perfectly fine and reasonable?

Im not going to suffer through DRM because someone once downloaded a game illegally. Im not going to stop driving a car because there are drunk drivers out there. Im not going to throw all my knifes away because some people use them as a tool for murder. Why would I be fine with SOPA?

And pirates caused it? Dont make me laugh. SOPA would not stop anyone with half a brain from downloading games or movies illegally. The people who thought it up know that, congress knows that, antipiracy outfits know it. Piracy is nothing but a scapegoat for this. In real life, they use terrorism to justify violating your privacy and harassing you. On the internet, they use copyright infringement. So fuck Burnie Burns and his naive ass for believing this is about piracy and nothing else.

tl;dr: It is apparent that even without the problem of piracy, we would still have something like SOPA coming up. Piracy is and always has been nothing more than a scapegoat.

This isn't an argument over whether SOPA and PIPA are rational ways to end piracy. This is whether piracy has caused SOPA and PIPA to be introduced, which it has.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

Piracy is more the rallying cry for supporters.

SOPA and PIPA are really a push by Big Business attempting to stop from falling into obsolescence by theoretically eradicating all competition through tight internet regulation and loose copyright definition.

 

[II2]

This deductive conclusion is simple-minded and without value. "The issues around the problem exist because the problem exists" - while empirically true - is useless information.

Lets pretend piracy is a sickness, since most people will agree it's a problem, or at least problematic. The negative symptoms of the sickness are not, except through conincidence, the negative symptoms of the cure(s).

The problem =/= the 'cure'. Piracy =/= SOPA

-----

Even if the internet's collective brain has dysfunctions, there are better solutions to explore than lobotomy.

x___x

 

[balanovich]

When a soccer mom comes out and calls for normal footballs to be banned in schools because her kid got hit in the head with one and has a concussion, we call her stupid. When an athiest comes out and says religion is a bad thing because of the crusades, we point to all the good things religion and religious people have achieved.

OK

And when someone comes out and says we should cripple the internet because a few people use it as means of doing something illegal, thats perfectly fine and reasonable?

That's not the same thing. We're not saying that. SOPA is a stupid, pathetic inefficient mean to stop piracy. But without piracy there wouldn't have been SOPA.

Im not going to suffer through DRM because someone once downloaded a game illegally.

Why would they make DRM? it costs them money. They don't enjoy making you miserable. They feel, wrongly perhaps, that they have to do this for financial interests.

Im not going to stop driving a car because there are drunk drivers out there. Im not going to throw all my knifes away because some people use them as a tool for murder.

Those just don't make sense.

And pirates caused it? Dont make me laugh. SOPA would not stop anyone with half a brain from downloading games or movies illegally. The people who thought it up know that, congress knows that, antipiracy outfits know it.

The inefficiency of SOPA does make we wander if there isn't a hidden goal. If so what is it? But SOPA would've made it harder, not for a smart pirate, but for the average Joe to get his free copy of whatever game or movie.

Piracy is nothing but a scapegoat for this. In real life, they use terrorism to justify violating your privacy and harassing you. On the internet, they use copyright infringement.

Ok... not sure I agree. What underground purpose would SOPA serve?
But let's say I agree with you. Terrorist are a good scapegoat... because they truly are a threat. They want to kill, and they are trying to. So yeah,maybe copyright infringement is a scapegoat, but if it wasn't a real problem,it wouldn't be.

tl;dr: It is apparent that even without the problem of piracy, we would still have something like SOPA coming up.

We might be having a bit of corporate or government meddling ... greed and power hunger are always a problem... but the result would be in no way comparable to SOPA.

SOPA is a solution,very BAD BAD BAD one, but a solution none the less. A solution to piracy.

 

[RagTagBand]

The problems people had with SOPA and PIPA was not "It tried to stop piracy", the problems were with how it went about it - IE ruthlessly, without precision nor restraint. The problems within those two proposed bills were there because of stupid politicians not understanding how their legislation would affect the web, free speech and how EASILY innocent non-pirates could be heavily affected by it.


Imagine you have a problem with Ants in your town, lots of Ant hills dotted all over the place and some politicians have decided the best way to get rid of them would be a tactical nuclear strike. "This plan to nuke a small town" burnie is essentially saying "is the Ants fault"

 

[Something Amyss]

True, the idea of these bills is ridiculous and the industry should have tried to change to find a better answer, but they are there to counter-act piracy...

If this was about piracy, they could have used the tools already at their disposal. Piracy was little more than an excuse, a convenience, one of many that have been used to try and expand corporate authority over the years.

Do you also believe the Patriot act was about Patriotism and the Induce act actually about protecting children?

 

[NiPah]

Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.

I'm not asking anyone to admit they've downloaded illegally, nor am I referring to any specific person when I say "you." It is true that Congress is dumb when it comes to the internet, but it is also true that they wouldn't be making these bills if people would just pay for the things they want like they should. We shouldn't be blaming congress for these bills (at least not fully), we should be blaming media pirates and demanding THEM to stop.

Just like people who get abortions are to blame for anti-abortion laws, or because game studios like Rockstar makes violent video games they should be blamed for Australia's extremely strict video game censorship laws. SOPA is a piss poor excuse for a law, its overkill, and saying stuff like this avoids that fact all together.

Sure congress could make a law that its ok to send anyone who breaks the speed limit on a road to a 5 year prison sentence, and sure people could make the point that "If there were no speeders congress wouldn't be making this law", but in the end it would be a horrible law.

 

[Ninmecu]

*snip*

How ironic that you would link to a stolen copy of the video rather than RoosterTeeth's original upload:

Considering A)At the original release of said PSA they were downloadable without the supporter...thing, can't recall the name of the paid service, it isn't really "stolen". In any case-it could easily be a satirical approach

 

[MadBlueWinnie]

Piracy caused the idea of laws to prevent piracy!? My god you're right! I never though of it that way before!!!! /( O.O)\

However, that's really NOT what you (or Burnie Burns) really is trying to say here is it?

Um yes it is. Thats exactly what they are trying to say. Its not easy to see a hidden meaning when there isnt one so i congratulate you on youre astounding achievement

This is simple, I didn't say there is a hidden meaning, I'm saying how ridiculous this post is. I doubt the OP is here saying "Oh wow you're right! Piracy DID cause SOPA/PIPA to exist! I must tell the world my discovery!"
NO
This is more of a "Hey world, you did wrong, I've done wrong, maybe we should stop pirating so we don't ruin what IS free and wonderful about the internet?!"

Because yes, I have torrented an anime series. I have downloaded an Mp3 file from google. I have copied movies from my friend's hard drive. And I'm sure 99% of people here have done something along the lines of those too. That's piracy, according to international copyright laws.

And yes, maybe we should stop doing these things before we loose everything through stupid bills such as ACTA/SOPA/PIPA...

 

[Sylveria]

You think a movie costs too much? Don't watch it. Don't buy it. Go to the local used bookstore and pick up a book for a dollar or two and read that instead; chances are you'll get more long-term enjoyment and enrichment out of it.

Hello name is Publisher McMoneybags. Buying used is as bad as piracy. You're encouraging an act tantamount to piracy by suggesting to buy used. Our lawyers will be contacting you shortly.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I see a lot of walls of text here, but you won't be getting any explanation in this post. Just a warning.

I see SOPA as a way not necessarily to crack down on piracy, although it could, but using piracy as a front to also ruin lots of other things that aren't necessarily illegal or detrimental. Like playthroughs, and any other thing that uses any content from media. There are already laws against piracy.

 

[Raesvelg]

Hello name is Publisher McMoneybags. Buying used is as bad as piracy. You're encouraging an act tantamount to piracy by suggesting to buy used. Our lawyers will be contacting you shortly.

Oddly enough book publishers don't care quite so much about used book sales, given that their product has a finite life span, particularly the way most people use books lol. Unlike the video game industry, however, they're still freaking out over digital distribution, since they've correctly figured out that the Kindle and platforms like it have effectively doomed the current model for publishing, and they're crippled by an excess of middlemen for the whole publishing process.

Used books, after all, are more like used cars than used games. A book falls apart eventually through normal use, after all, whereas the only real limiting factor on a game using optical media is platform lifespan.

Digital books, on the other hand, offer authors the opportunity to circumvent the whole agent/publisher system, and let authors sell directly to their readers without the upfront investment of a print run, shipping, and so on. Advertising is still lacking, of course, as is the whole editor/revision process, but in theory they can do without that, and a lot of people have chosen to do so, albeit with mixed results.

Amazon, however, has decided to take advantage of the Kindle and start cutting traditional publishers out of the loop, by opening its own publishing house, and using their ability to offer better deals to established authors, and to new talent.

Interesting times in the book industry, all things considered. Borders has gone under, and to be honest I expect Barnes & Noble to follow suit before too much longer. The smaller bookstores that were mostly put out of business by the big chains might actually see a revival though, as boutique-level retailers.

But I digress.

 

[Scars Unseen]

That, or they understand the meaning of the word scapegoat. It's also possible that they can spot a century long pattern when they see one.

Scapegoated for what, pray tell?

Piracy?

Or is this another of those misplaced beliefs that somehow SOPA/PIPA are not about piracy?

If you had quoted my entire post I could point out the answer to your question. The media industry has a long standing record of attacking any new distribution medium that they do not already control. Sometimes they succeed(the radio, cable TV), and sometimes they don't(VHS). The pattern usually is that they are unable to control physical media despite their efforts(though the DMCA was a pretty big victory for them in that arena), but they almost always end up in control of distribution systems. The internet is the mother of all distribution systems. And would you look at that? Big media is trying to control it by manipulating congress and the ISPs.

Yes, piracy is wrong. No, it is not the root of this issue. Not by a long shot.