Poll: If you've ever downloaded something illegally, YOU are to blame for SOPA/PIPA.

Recommended Videos

Raesvelg

New member
Oct 22, 2008
486
0
0
MrDeckard said:
I agree to a point.

Of course, piracy created the need for laws against it.

However, as I said before, it's the ignorant old men on the hill who went about it so damn poorly.

Again, there needs to be some options other than "Yes" and "No"
Oh, the law sucks, there's no question about that. Sweeping powers, limited oversight, and the only clause intended to rein in what would otherwise be a "license to kill", of sorts, for the IP holders in question was one that automatically favors the guy with the most money... which is usually the IP holder anyway.

But the fact of the matter is that if you like your big-budget films, games, and similar projects, then you have to realize that at some point, piracy could move from a loss of profit to a loss of incentive to produce.

I mean hell, wasn't it Ubisoft who already came right out and said that they're not porting games to PC because the piracy on that platform makes it a questionable investment.
 

LetalisK

New member
May 5, 2010
2,769
0
0
AstylahAthrys said:
I feel like I need to clarify something: Burnie and the rest of the podcast did not like SOPA or PIPA. They thought it was way too much and not the right way to deal with the problem. However, anti-piracy laws wouldn't need to exist if there ever was piracy. SOPA was NOT the way to handle it, but he is right. How they said it was "There would be no need for these laws that go way too far if the problem wasn't there in the first place." (I am paraphrasing, but it's what he said)
Why would you ever need a law that goes way too far? That makes no sense. No, this is a situation where there is a legitimate problem that needs to be addressed, which IS because of piracy. However, the powers that be decided to address it in a blind, ignorant, and destructive manner. The failure to address the problem responsibly is purely the fault of the politicians and has nothing to do with the pirates.
 

The_Lost_King

New member
Oct 7, 2011
1,506
0
0
Sopa would exist without piracy it wold just be called, We are dumb asses and want to cripple the internet because it makes more money than us, bill
 

Raesvelg

New member
Oct 22, 2008
486
0
0
Dexter111 said:
Because everyone knows the government is there to protect corporate interests against the evils of its populace and for that reason are being appointed into office by corporations, right, right? That's how democracy is supposed to work, isn't it?
The government is there to protect legitimate interests. Which can be corporate, or personal. It's not a binary solution, one or the other, but rather which one ought to be protected.

In short: You don't have the right to free stuff, while IP holders do have the right to expect protection from the government.
Dexter111 said:
The problem also wouldn't exist if most of their products wouldn't be as expensive as they are and most of their business practices wouldn't be downright disgusting e.g. if there was a legal alternative to piracy like a "culture flatrate" or similar worldwide (see also services like Steam, Hulu, Netflix, iTunes etc. and their respective success) that wouldn't slow down their perpetual growth [http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/jun/14/us-film-industry-growth-forecast] too much.
There is a legal alternative to piracy, oddly enough.

It's called "buying".

You're complaining over price, of course, which is just a justification for piracy. There are reasonable alternatives to everything, and the fact of the matter is that you have no fundamental right to be entertained. There's no need for a "culture flatrate" or anything so incredibly ridiculous.

You think a movie costs too much? Don't watch it. Don't buy it. Go to the local used bookstore and pick up a book for a dollar or two and read that instead; chances are you'll get more long-term enjoyment and enrichment out of it. Too lazy to read? Rent the movie for a dollar from the local Redbox or similar kiosk. Get a Netflix subscription and make aggressive use of it. Wait for it to go on sale on Amazon. Etc.

The whole "things cost too much so I pirate them" argument is a significant part of the reason why people equate piracy with theft.
Dexter111 said:
Also this: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111007/14102716253/miramax-ceo-finally-admits-control-over-distribution-channel-is-much-bigger-issue-than-piracy.shtml
Context is everything.

What Lang was talking about was expanding their digital distribution network being a higher priority than fighting piracy. The interview in question had nothing to do with anti-piracy legislation, but rather the fact that Miramax has a substantial library of films that nobody was buying, in part because they were too expensive, and in part because they simply weren't available, and that fixing that situation might actually reduce the drive of people to pirate those films and as such, again, represented a higher priority to Miramax than fighting piracy.

There's an odd disconnect between arguing that corporations are fighting for "control of the distribution channels", while the corporation in question is trying to make sure that their IPs are as widely available as possible while still being legal.
 

NightHawk21

New member
Dec 8, 2010
1,273
0
0
I don't know who this person is specifically (only Rooster Teeth thing I sometimes watch is RvB), but going just by that comment he's either ignorant and/or a hypocrite. For the same reason I think as making laws that restrict everyone based on one person doing a bad thing is stupid, I think he is stupid for thinking this is the root cause of these laws. Piracy has always existed and it isn't going away, I think that MPAA and their friends know this. The main threat they fear in this new world is that they are being rendered obsolete, and these laws allow them to exhibit some form of control over mediums that might allow new and upcoming artists spread their product without their [MPAA or applicable group] control. For example, not 50 years ago a new artist couldn't really go too big without being signed to some sort of label, since the label made a bunch of vital equipment, distribution, etc. available to them. Now a decent record studio costs about 10 grand (won't be top of the line but it'll be pretty damn good) and sites like youtube, facebook, and hundreds of other sites allow these artists to spread their content (and be relatively successful) without being controlled by these big corporations.

Also, I find it really hard believe that no one has never downloaded anything that didn't belong to them. In fact I find it so hard to believe this that I would say that the only people who haven't are those that have never been exposed to the internet, a small fraction of those that don't fully understand how to use the internet (see old people), and a small fraction of people that have only had access to the internet in say school and are very young.
 

Bara_no_Hime

New member
Sep 15, 2010
3,646
0
0
Jack the Potato said:
No.

SOPA mostly attacks Streaming Videos, like YouTube and similar. It does almost nothing to actually stop illegal downloads. Even the sites that host illegal downloads are only hidden from Americans - it doesn't stop China from pirating, it just stops Americans from seeing China pirate stuff (and from pirating it back, I suppose, but that's hardly the biggest issue).

So SOPA had almost nothing to do with illegal downloads.
 

Xangba

New member
Apr 6, 2005
250
0
0
Mmm had to say no. A huge percentage of people that pirate something never planned to buy it in the first place, so that's not actually a lost sale. Also the governments attempts to give bull statements about what it does to our economy makes me always want to blame them. 750,000 jobs lost because of piracy in America? Yeah, sure. The piracy aspect is just an excuse to try and get more control over the internet. If not piracy they'd probably come up with something else.
 

mega48man

New member
Mar 12, 2009
638
0
0
the media corporations who paid to have these laws made are the ones who;

1) created a lot of software/applications for people to use for file sharing
2) create the media that is pirated/shared/streamed day after day
3) refuse to abandon their outdated business model
4) refuse to adapt to modern technology properly to meet their 'needs'
5) want to send us back to the way things were before the internet.

seriously, if some big media corporations can't adapt and instead try to take away my little pony from me, i have no sympathy for them because of the "losses" that "their" business is "suffering"
 

rekabdarb

New member
Jun 25, 2008
1,464
0
0
in a broad general sense. Yes you are right. [it's a joke, get it, since SOPA is also very broad and general](you killed the joke)

Funny how that comes up. And Burnie isn't exactly an intellectual powerhouse. If i want information about a current even i certainly wouldn't go up to him. So his comments are broad enough to be true, doesn't make them right.

But since i rationalize and combat everything i come across (I just love picking the side that i think is gonna lose, makes me [i think] a better debator) i may have bias
 

sean360h

New member
Jun 2, 2010
207
0
0
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
No. Whoever Burnie Burns is, I hope many people told him how fucking retarded he is.
Burnie Burns is the founder of Rooster Teeth Productions they created the web series Red Vs. Blue
trust me he isn't the smartest human ever (demonstrated by this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhHi_PCBQX0 )

http://www.youtube.com/user/roosterteeth?blend=1&ob=4
http://roosterteeth.com/home.php
 

Aprilgold

New member
Apr 1, 2011
1,995
0
0
Jack the Potato said:
Burnie Burns made a great point on the Rooster Teeth podcast this week about what actually caused SOPA. It's not congressmen who don't understand the internet, nor is it greedy publishers trying to get as much money as they can. It's you, the people who download things without paying for them. Piracy caused SOPA, and it's what will cause the next SOPA and the one after that. As long as people keep downloading things illegally, congress will be forced to make bills like SOPA.
Actually, its fear of piracy that leads to laws against it. If I have a fear of someone taking my stuff and there was no law to stop someone from taking my stuff, the most logical thing, as a man of power, would to be to make a law of someone taking my stuff as illegal. Its almost as stupid as when one of the supporters of SOPA said that it was only those across the waters that were Pirating.

I'm not asking anyone to admit they've downloaded illegally, nor am I referring to any specific person when I say "you." It is true that Congress is dumb when it comes to the internet, but it is also true that they wouldn't be making these bills if people would just pay for the things they want like they should. We shouldn't be blaming congress for these bills (at least not fully), we should be blaming media pirates and demanding THEM to stop.
We don't have any reliable numbers anywhere that shows exactly how much revenue is cut when someone pirates a game. And since we don't know how many people pirate a game, its hard to say any revenue is truly cut. Alright, how about this, 7 million people buy Skyrim, then 1 million pirate it, you have 6 million 60$'s in revenue. Thats more then I make in a year.

That said, you should never take Rooster Teeth seriously, since its like taking a stand up comedians advice, but he jokes about everything. Just, in the near future, don't take their word for much. They are all a bunch of full-time jokesters, not much more or less.

Like Gabe Newell said, Piracy is service problem. Give people a better service then pirates give and you just got rid of some people pirating things.

On what Burnie said. Piracy is such a loose term with almost no correct way of terming it in the justice system. And Jail time is definetly not the correct punishment for it. I could be committed of piracy if I use a copyrighted song in a video or if I download a game without paying. Most of the time Piracy is just copyright infringement. And I'm sure Rooster Teeth do this same thing every-time they do a game first look or review. Their whole business is technically copyright infringement.

Raesvelg said:
FelixG said:
Actually yes, it is a conspiracy (although to most people a transparent one) to control distribution methods, instead of adapting to the times they want to stifle any new methods by buying politicians.
You might be on to something... if the industries in question hadn't already embraced the digital distribution platform.

And, y'know, if SOPA/PIPA had had anything to do with stopping legal digital distribution. But, oddly enough, those bills were drafted to prevent piracy. Not Steam. Or iTunes. Or Netflix. Or Amazon. Or Origin. Or Gamestop. Or Marvel. Or I think you might get the idea by now.
Your serious? As I pointed out above, Piracy is such a loose term that its technically just Copyright Infringement. And as such, everysingle thing that infringes copyright, this site, Destructoid, Youtube, Twitter, Facebook, Reddit and many more could be held responsible for any copyrighted content on their site. Reddit or Youtube user posts gameplay about a game then they just got Youtube and Reddit taken down with just one video. No strikes under Sopa, you caught with the crime, and that particular website is taken down.

Now, if Industries HAVE embraced Digital Distribution, then why are they against piracy is the key thing here. They are losing profits, sure, but you can't stop someone from sending somebody else a game. Which is the thing here. If they have truly embraced it, then they would put their TV shows online at the same time that they air on TV, and they don't do that. Your more likely to find a show on Youtube then anywhere else.

Sopa only stops Americans from pirating and allows corporations to censor the internet any way they please. All my examples from above could be taken down by their appropriate copyright holders if they spot theres a problem here or there. You see, Sopa doesn't stop anyone from pirating except Americans, and American based companies that run sites like Youtube would lose their profit from users posting videos, copyrighted or not.
 

Raesvelg

New member
Oct 22, 2008
486
0
0
Dexter111 said:
How about if those corporate interests directly contradict and crash with what the majority of the populace want and do and are in direct competition with new technology like computers, the Internet and more specific things like YouTube and other portals used to create and share creative works? Should the government still protect the rights of those corporation, desperately clinging to business models out of another century and ignore the will of the people?
There's no technological conflict present; the industries in question have embraced digital distribution, albeit haltingly and with reservations in many cases, and are seeking to exploit that market fully in most cases, with the arguable exception of the publishing industry, which is so incredibly backwards that Amazon will likely drag them all down in flames at this rate...

The argument you're making (though most of the people who make the "control of distribution channels" argument are misled on the topic and still seem to think that the industry just wants to sell physical media) is that the industry is attempting to gain powers that would allow it to stifle small-scale creators, and possibly to force them to buy into the current production model.

Which could be true, but it's not really supported by the evidence, which is why I tend to view it as a conspiracy theory.

If the majority of people were presented with an opportunity to get something for what they perceive to be nothing, at no risk to themselves, and with no difficulty whatsoever, they would. Even if that thing did not belong to them, or if in taking that thing, they would be doing themselves long-term harm. And if you don't believe that, then you really ought to research things like environmental damage, and see what people will do when they don't realize or care about the consequences.

What most industries are looking at, and freaking right the fuck out over, are the long-term prospects if steps are not taken to curtail piracy. At the moment, things aren't terrible; they're losing out on profits, but most people are fundamentally decent enough to pay for things rather than just take them, and there remains a certain barrier to entry when you factor in things like general tech-savvyness of the market, access to high-speed internet, and so on.

In the long term though, twenty years or so, what is a profit-reducing problem now could easily become an industry-destroying problem then. It's the same level of slippery-slope argument that leads people to confidently declare that SOPA would destroy the internet; in all likelihood, had the bill passed, it would have been used largely as intended; to shut down access to sites that blatantly encourage piracy, and ideally cause them sufficient economic hardship that they shut down. And in all likelihood, people will continue to be fundamentally decent and the greater market penetration will allow the industries in question to find new ways to exploit it, and make money despite the increasing ease of piracy.


Dexter111 said:
Not to say that the issue with the price is a real one, even more so in downtrodden economic locations than the USA and Western Europe and neither do companies have a "fundamental right" on making huge amounts of money with entertainment products off the back of the artists.
The artists sold their rights to said corporation in order to make more money, as a general rule. The time may come when things change, and people can cut more middlemen out of the creative loop, so to speak, but nobody held a gun to these hypothetical artists heads and told them to create, and subsequently give up their creations, for nothing.

The artist, typically, wins out when they "sell out". They lacked the means to bring their creation to a large market; word-of-mouth is usually not a very effective means of advertising, unfortunately. By trading away what is typically the majority of their potential income, they also avoid paying the costs associating with promoting it, and assume almost none of the risk inherent in that investment.

So yes, the corporations in question have the same right to profit from their investment and labor as you do from your own.

And again, you do not have a right to be entertained. Having something be unavailable to you, or out of your price range, is not an excuse to take it. I can't afford a Lamborghini, that doesn't mean that Lamborghini should reduce the prices on their cars, it just means that I have to find an alternative method of transportation.


Dexter111 said:
You see, what you don't understand is that this has a lot to do with piracy (and also with DRM often being used to assume direct control over said distribution channels under the pretense of being "anti-piracy").
Like I said, I understand the theory, I just don't put a whole lot of credence in it, since it would be a frankly unrealistic goal and a losing battle for corporations to attempt to shut down a site like YouTube on the basis of a few copyright infringements.

The intent of laws like SOPA are to give IP holders, and governments, tools to retaliate against large-scale and blatant infringers who are not otherwise beholden to the laws of the United States. The document was certainly poorly written, and could have been used to significant levels of abuse, but I do not accept the idea that it was specifically designed to shut down small-scale content creators.

If, say, Miramax decided to shut down YouTube, for example, the backlash generated would far outweigh any potential gain they might think to make from the act. It's bad business, and clearly bad business at that.
 

mateushac

New member
Apr 4, 2010
343
0
0
I don't think SOPA is so about piracy as it is about granting companies a sort of a comfort zone in the internet. Think of it as a way for companies to control media.
 

jovack22

New member
Jan 26, 2011
278
0
0
Phlakes said:
If there was no piracy, there would be no need to regulate piracy, so yeah, in a sense your right.
This. People who voted no are being ridiculous.

True, the idea of these bills is ridiculous and the industry should have tried to change to find a better answer, but they are there to counter-act piracy... regardless of how draconian they are.

Do I agree with SOPA, no. Is there a better solution, i.e. does the industry have to change with the times, yes.
If you pirated something ever, were you a factor in the creation of SOPA, yes.
 

00slash00

New member
Dec 29, 2009
2,321
0
0
yeah theres plenty of blame to go around. however, saying most or all of the blame should be placed on pirates is just crazy. i dont support piracy and i wouldnt shed a tear if all piracy websites went away tomorrow, however, the bulk of the blame should be placed on the creators of this bill and congress for ignoring facts and just voting yes on something because they liked the name. youre right, this bill may wouldnt have existed if there hadnt been piracy (though lets be honest, this bill was less about piracy and more about politicians trying to put internet companies in their back pocket). however, someone could antagonize someone and get shot as a result. you could certainly say that the person wouldnt have been shot if he hadnt been provoking the shooter, but i think most reasonable people will blame the shooter, and not the guy acting like an ass
 

gregitaly

New member
Mar 12, 2009
176
0
0
If you've pirated something, yes you are responsible for any and all anti-piracy legislation. But you aren't responsible for the out of touch politicians who clumsely word that legislation in a way that threatens perfectly innocent parties in their anti-piracy crusade, as we've seen with SOPA/PIPA.
In short, if you're a thief you're responsible for there being a police force. But you are not responsible for that force raiding a persons home with out a warrant.
Hope that made sense.