Poll: Injustice of the Permaban

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Cain_Zeros

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Nov 13, 2009
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The only mod-wrath I can recall getting is a completely deserved warning for low content right when I was starting out. I made it through when the moderation was bad unscathed. Trust me, since coming back and actually reading things in the forums (which only happened about a week ago after being gone for a year if not more), I can tell you that the moderation is really not as bad as you think it is, and the people I've seen getting mod-wrathed have deserved it.
 

AstylahAthrys

New member
Apr 7, 2010
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The strictness of the Escapist is why I like it so much. It's so neat and clean here, which makes it vastly superior than most places on the internet. I know, I don't post much, but I'm lurking all the time, and my experience here is usually pretty pleasant, save a few offensive posts. As for the Permaban being unjust? I don't think so. If you get that many strikes against you, I think it's fair to want said person to go.
 

Abomination

New member
Dec 17, 2012
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While I have been given one warning that I strongly believe was unwarranted it has been the only warning I have received on this site.

Despite my often contrary opinions that clash with the more emotional and fanatical members of the board I have learned simply what not to say in order to maintain a relatively full health bar.

I've been banned from many a forum before, banned 4 times from the World of Warcraft forums for example, and if I've only got one warning here I think the mods are a bit TOO lenient.

Does this thread have something to do with Vault 101 AGAIN?
 

madwarper

New member
Mar 17, 2011
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PlatonicRapist said:
Yes. There is no court of appeals or means of redress,
Yea, that's wrong. You could do yourself some good by reading up on the Code of Conduct [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct].
Appeal System
Moderators and staff are human and sometimes make mistakes. For this reason, we have an appeal system that members can utilize to plead their case in hopes of a reversal of a penalty. Once you have received a penalty, a message will be sent to you via private message. At this time, there is also a link to the appeal process. Please note, the appeal process works with your email account, not the private message system on The Escapist. If you choose to use the appeal system, please make sure to check your spam folder for an email.

All appeals are normally seen within 48 hours of your appeal, except on weekends.
 

DrunkOnEstus

In the name of Harman...
May 11, 2012
1,712
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It's simple. Just love and obey the CoC. I've respected and loved the CoC ever since I saw it, and there's a few people on here who are willing to get behind you if they realize that you love and respect it. Also, Bill and Ted can even understand the most important rule: "Be excellent to each other". If someone gets me riled up, I just bite my tongue (in a manner of speaking) and ignore it. It's better to not respond if the alternative is to be all passive-aggressive and what not. I'm also in the camp that doesn't much care for the passive-aggression that allows for condescending insults that sidesteps the rule. But there are grey areas, and we're all human here, so it's totally understandable.

Of course the mods are sexy and awesome, and I definitely couldn't say how I'd handle being in one of their shoes.
 

hazabaza1

Want Skyrim. Want. Do want.
Nov 26, 2008
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Eh. It's a bit inconsistent at times.
I've seen many a post doing stuff like "someone I know would call you this" or (pretty much quoting here) "My fiance would have many things to say about you if you suggested that. Mostly calling you a 'slut' or '*****'" that goes unmoderated.
Yet if you make a joke that might be deemed offensive you have to make sure to have a "this is totally a joke super special don't ban me" assurance or you may (in my experiences) get banned and have to appeal.

madwarper said:
I can only name 2 users that have been brought back from a ban. But, they are currently banned.
Hi.
 

RedDeadFred

Illusions, Michael!
May 13, 2009
4,896
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Daystar Clarion said:
We wouldn't be having this discussion if Vault was still around, these things only crop up when someone people actually liked, get banned :D
Well, there was a pretty popular thread going around about what people thought of the moderation here on the day she was banned. It seemed like that thread led to her ban more than her actual post did. Don't get me wrong, her post deserved the ban because even though the OP said he wasn't offended by it, others might have been. I just don't think a lot of attention was drawn to it before the other thread specifically referenced her post.

But you're right, we've certainly had a boom of these kinds of threads since she's been gone.
 

Altorin

Jack of No Trades
May 16, 2008
6,976
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it's like Batman, you die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
 

Zen Toombs

New member
Nov 7, 2011
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Drathnoxis said:
I've been lurking these forums for quite some time now, and while I think it's generally a pretty cool place I can't help feel that the super strict moderation is a detriment to the site.
In my opinion, it's a mixed bag. You're spot on about the whole "homogenization of opinion" thing, and I don't really like that.

However, there's also a problem of letting people who are basically just being inflammatory jerks just go about their business. I mean, it took Zeel months to get banned!
 

Joccaren

Elite Member
Mar 29, 2011
2,601
3
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Yes and no.

I like the strict moderation keeping trolls and spambots out, but at the same time its making me use these forums less and less, and start actually hating them. These days I honestly don't want to post all that much, and I have to put it down indirectly to the moderation on the site.
Now, its not because I'm scared I'll get warned. Think I've got two warnings, one was definitely for a low content post that I'm somewhat against [It answered the question in the OP. Yeah I could have added on "That series really needs another installment" and been fine, but I'm not seeing how that adds any more content than my answer TBH] but W/E, moderators discretion and I'll add in that extra line from now on, just to keep them happy. Other one I think was also a low content post, not entirely sure though. Might have posted something that someone got offended by, but I generally stay pretty safe with that.

That does, however slightly preface my larger problem; moderation is somewhat flawed thanks to the rules. As I said above, I generally stay pretty safe when posting something someone may get offended by. How? Instead of saying "You're an idiot and a troll" I write something more along the lines of "You are acting like a troll" or "I feel like you're acting intentionally dense". Rather than outright calling someone something, you put in a "It looks like", "It feels like" or some other qualifier and it gets passed off as you're not insulting them, you're saying that they are acting/looking like someone who you would insult, or they come across that way to you. Basically, you're putting it as an implied "I'm not calling you this, but its how you're acting". This, along with all the "STRAWMAN!", "FALLACY!" and other inflammatory responses that don't get moderated as they're not directly insulting make these forums unpleasant a lot of the time.

I've seen people in this thread, and in others, say things like "Just stay away from topics on...", "I only post if a thread is less than 3 pages long" and other assorted "Just stay away from certain threads and you'll be fine" types of posts. Do you not see how WRONG that is. Forums are for discussions. If you have to stay away from discussions in order to avoid getting banned, there is something wrong. Really, the only reason you have to stay away from those threads is that someone in those threads will be passive aggressive towards you, or indirectly offensive, and you'll come out and be obvious about it rather than hiding behind what could be considered loopholes in the forum rules, and you'll get a warning whilst they get off scott free. TBH I'd gladly take a bunch of warnings for all the times I've posted something like that, and probably get banned in the process, if it'd set a precedent for everyone else receiving the same sort of punishment, as it'd IMO make the forums a better place.

The rules really focus on the wrong things, or are too vague in some areas, for the moderation to make this place a really pleasant place to be. Honestly the post Vault got banned for was nowhere near as insulting, hostile or offensive as half the posts I've replied to in gaming discussions. Hell, I'd struggle to call it any of them at all, but subjectivity and all that I guess. Really, this forum is a place of "So long as you're careful about how you do it, and don't do it openly, you can insult people as much as you want!". Its as unpleasant to post in as the Sins of a Solar Empire forums are to read. I remember when Skyrim was released, and I got into a massive 3-4 page argument with someone over whether the Stormcloaks or the Imperials were better [God knows there's a repeat of that thread around now too], and I enjoyed it. Neither of us were aggressive, we bought up lore and had a long discussion before deciding to put aside our differences in order to fight the greater threat of the Thalmor. The long arguments I've gotten into since then makes it feel like, were I to have the same argument again, it'd be implied that I'm a neo-nazi who supports the oppression of minorities, and that I consider non-white races less important than myself, and that's why I'd choose the Stormcloaks. Whether that'd happen or not IDK, with discussions about games its a bit more of a flip of the coin as to whether you'll get insulted for your opinion as opposed to general discussion where its normally a 9/10 chance of that happening, but every time I go to post it feels like I'll be attacked for what I post instead of getting a reasoned and logical response.

Recently its been happening less to me, but I'm not sure whether that's because most of the passive-aggressive posters have finally been banned, or because I've stopped myself from posting in a lot of threads that I normally would post in because I know I'll get a passive aggressive response and I don't want to have to deal with that because the person won't get banned. Really, I don't care to find out either, I'm not up for making that sort of gamble.

TBH there's probably 4-5 posters around ATM that make me like these forums. Once they're gone... I'll probably disappear. No offence to anyone else, most people generally aren't offensive or aggressive in their posts, but the interesting posters are disappearing, and the people who do make these forums unpleasant have left a bad taste in my mouth.

I'd also like to point out that its not necessarily the moderators I have a problem with. They're all nice people who are generally fun and I'd probably enjoy the forums more if they participated in more discussions, as they are often interesting posters, they just don't seem to appear very often, but the fact that the rules make it possible to write offensive or aggressive posts, and then not receive any sort of warning for them because you really haven't broken any rules, makes this place rather unpleasant at times.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Feb 3, 2010
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TimeLord said:
Leaving aside that you are attempting to bribe completely the wrong person, you are only 3 1/2 months away from losing a notch from your bar.
Question for you...

If you get an infraction, and that infraction is overturned on appeal, is your 6 month counter reset to 6 months? Or does it revert to whatever it was before the infraction?
 

major_chaos

Ruining videogames
Feb 3, 2011
1,314
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JoJo said:
I myself have close to 8000 posts and no infractions.
Probably because in all my time here I have never even seen the text equivalent of you raising your voice. Nothing wrong with that mind you, just some people *points to self* have a hard time remaining 100% neutral. dammit sometimes people on the internet are WRONG and I feel the need to criticize them -_-.


maddawg IAJI said:
When has a moderator ever been an asshole to you exactly?
Jumping in on this conversation. To me personally? Never. But just in general I feel Grey and Marter can be a bit on the smug and prickish side occasionally, and Sky sometimes comes across a bit victimized and whiny on the mod chat, but the emoticons make me suspect that most of that is just playing. Also I seem to remember on review (don't remember which sadly) where someone who questioned the review got ganged up on by like three Goldnames.


Susan Arendt said:
So your enjoyment of R&P is more important than someone else's desire to not have to deal with Danyal's particular bullshit? Sorry, but that's a very selfish point of view.
Just a quick question, can I go into the ten billionth inane "TEH INDUSTRY IS DYING GUIES/ EA IS EBULL" threat and tell the repeat offenders that I'm "sick of their particular bullshit" without getting modded? I'm kinda assuming not.

OT: I have some small gripes but my 2 biggest issues with the moderation (other than the one in my avatar) are
1. The permabanned avatar. Its smug, vindictive, immature and pointless, and it needs to go.
2. It seems to me sometimes that you can be as much of an asshole as you want, as long as you are either a. passive aggressive or b. pseudo-intellectual about it. Example would be how long it took Katori-kun to get banned even though he was extremely hostile and condescending from day one. There are other, active users who I would say seem to exploit this as well.
inb4 I get warned for "modsass".
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,759
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Drathnoxis said:
I feel that the ten strike warning system is bound to take out most of the frequent posters eventually, or at least the more interesting ones because, really, everybody slips up now and again and depending on how much they post it may be more often than within *six months* of their last mistake.
Look, I post her a lot in a day. More than I should. In three years of regular posting, I've received two warnings, and I managed to work one off. I think one of those warnings was questionable, but whatever, that's not exactly my point here. I've managed three years of routine posting. Interesting, of course, is debatable, but for some reason people keep responding to me and agreeing with me and even friending me. Maybe not the great camaraderie of a lifetime, but I'm not exactly worried about it, either.

And in my time, I've seen a lot of people with high post rates and similarly long careers manage to not get themselves banned. Meanwhile, I've seen people permabanned within the year. I really doubt it's time. I think it's attitude. Some people are bound to hit it because they don't play well with the rules of the site.

Since Vault 101 has already been brought up, let me say this: she was well aware she was breaking the rules. She had said so multiple times in the past. She refused to stop doing the things that got her moderated, so she got banned. I get that people like her, which seems to be the only time the system is really brought up, but there's a reason she's gone. And it's not a particularly unjust one.

This, I believe, makes her a good example of the phenomena.

I don't think prolific posters are more prone to being banned, because "slipping up" is relatively easy to avoid. If you follow the basic tenet of "don't be a dick," you've already covered like 95% of slipping up.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
19,316
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TimeLord said:
snip for attention
One really quick question, by the way... What's the official mod stance on "Stupid and pointless threads done in good humor for the entertainment of all"?

Like, say, the Brovengers/Injustice League threads?
 

Marter

Elite Member
Legacy
Oct 27, 2009
14,276
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BloatedGuppy said:
Question for you...

If you get an infraction, and that infraction is overturned on appeal, is your 6 month counter reset to 6 months? Or does it revert to whatever it was before the infraction?
I believe, and see no reason to believe otherwise, that if the appeal is successful the time until the next period of amnesty would remain the same, just like if you hadn't gotten the wrath at all.

lacktheknack said:
One really quick question, by the way... What's the official mod stance on "Stupid and pointless threads done in good humor for the entertainment of all"?

Like, say, the Brovengers/Injustice League threads?
As long as there's something to discuss, they're fine. Most of them have been, from what I've seen.
major_chaos said:
But just in general I feel Grey and Marter can be a bit on the smug and prickish side occasionally
Aww. :/
 

xDarc

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2009
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I was just going through my warnings/probation messages and because I post in R&P mostly it's never something as simple as don't attack other users.

One of my system messages for a 7 day probation has a mod message of "That's garbage and untrue."

Ok... Excuse me and my opinion then.

Katatori-Kun's recent ban was particularly concerning as his discourse was very adult, hell it ought to have been, guy was in his 40s. He makes one comment about fast food workers which most adults wouldn't even flinch at and he's gone for what seemed like no reason. I personally would love to find a more adult web site with a gaming community that is not dead.

Before here I was at MMORPG.com forever, before that I was on a website where anyone could create their own message board, and you could link them together in a "web ring" (defunct 90's term). insidetheweb.com, if you go there now it's just a stub site as the domain has long since been sold.

Forums come, forums go, it's the cycle of life on the net- and yes moderation does help kill it, and it's always funny because most people never have a problem... until the same topics are trending on page 1 for several days when they used to not last an hour.

But, whatever. I'm just a nomadic forum grazer, eating the grass until it's gone. I'm David Banner at the end of an episode of the incredible hulk, walking down the series of tubes trying to hitch a ride.