Poll: Is 40K serious?

[JesterRaiin]

Actually it looks a lot like an overblown version of the Soviet economy during the early years of the USSR. Each area has dedicated labour to do and its all controlled by a central hub. It's not a particularly good system but it is an economy.

Hardly. With the exception of Chaos (i'm not sure if this guys eat and produce anything), Necrons (ditto), and maybe Eldars (self sustained cities-starships) every Wh40k empire should collapse under it's own weight. War swallowing most of resources, uncontrollable growth and shrinking of controlled systems, devastation of whole solar systems because some half-saint half-mad inquisitor wills it, distances, lack of reliable, stable trade lanes, seclusion, no borders, enemies capable of emerging out of nowhere at the doorsteps of Holy Terra or centre of any other empire... Also, unregulated matter of taxes... Naaaah. Simple "pick here, transport it there" isn't plausible economic model.

 

[vortexgods]

Setting with every planet, city complex, space station or vessel bearing name stolen from some Black Metal band ? Without any plausible economy ? With heavily armored knights dying as easily as light infantrymen ? Serious ? No. By all gods, no !

The fuck? Economy is based on forge worlds processing materials stripped from mine worlds, food is produced by dedicated agri-worlds and hosing space is provided by planets turned into vast tower blocks. Economy exists, it's just on a grand scale. Do your research, or shut up.

Let me qualify this by saying I have been a massive 40k fan for 11 years now. I have a sizeable Alpha Legion army and an in progress World Eaters army. Yesterday the stuff I ordered to finish my Goliath gang for Necromunda came in the mail. I love 40k.

But he's right about a lot of the logistics making no sense. You just have to turn off that part of your brain and accept it. For instance, the Death Korps of Krieg. They willingly sacrifice entire regiments as long as they win. They come from one planet. They can not sustain these tactics for long. But you just have to put that thought out of your mind and go with it.

In the grim darkness of the far future human beings breed like rabbits.

 

[Secret world leader (shhh)]

I'm only barely familliiar with WH40k but i can say if space marine were like that video it would be an instant pre-order.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

Setting with every planet, city complex, space station or vessel bearing name stolen from some Black Metal band ? Without any plausible economy ? With heavily armored knights dying as easily as light infantrymen ? Serious ? No. By all gods, no !

The fuck? Economy is based on forge worlds processing materials stripped from mine worlds, food is produced by dedicated agri-worlds and hosing space is provided by planets turned into vast tower blocks. Economy exists, it's just on a grand scale. Do your research, or shut up.

Let me qualify this by saying I have been a massive 40k fan for 11 years now. I have a sizeable Alpha Legion army and an in progress World Eaters army. Yesterday the stuff I ordered to finish my Goliath gang for Necromunda came in the mail. I love 40k.

But he's right about a lot of the logistics making no sense. You just have to turn off that part of your brain and accept it. For instance, the Death Korps of Krieg. They willingly sacrifice entire regiments as long as they win. They come from one planet. They can not sustain these tactics for long. But you just have to put that thought out of your mind and go with it.

Kreig grows troops in vats in underground complexes. Its relatively cheap to import raw nutritients refined from the dead of hive worlds to grow the new troops. They work, whole systems are dedicated to admin duty (Some even go into civil wars over space to store the paper work)

Still, think of the logistics. There are hundreds, if not thousands of Krieg regiments. If they can throw away 10,000 and still win then the regiment must be larger than that. Consider that the planet would still need millions of people in order to run itself. Think of how many people this must be. And they only come from one planet.

I know they grow people faster but it's still a logistical nightmare.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

It really depends on what side you look at. I can laugh it up with the best of them but reading through some sections of fulgrim or Nemesis were actually kind of fucked up. Watching a stage show where the lead dancer starts literally breaking herself apart as she gets more and more possessed by the music or having a creature basically be an even more messed up version of 'the thing' has a certain power to it.

At the same time a lot of it is over the top and ridiculous to me. Mostly the space marine stuff honestly, since work based around the inquisition or the imperial guard can actually be pretty good.

Though I agree with what you say about the levity of the universe, I would like to stress that even in fulgrim, your not supposed to take it seriously. It is dark for sure, but it's OTT for shits and giggles, or for shock value depending .

When the renegade Emperors Children Legion start wearing the skin of their enemies you have to step back and go "yep, that's about as Evil as things get in this universe". Or that sub-plot with the remembrancer turning human waste and matter into "art" you say "sounds like Slaanesh, all right".

You Roll with the punches so to speak.

Just as people don't take Adventure Time or MLP: Friendship is Magic seriously (they really shouldn't mind you) you don't take Warhammer seriously. It can be cool, messed up, intriguing and dark and still be a entirely made for the larf (at every level). Not every dark fiction has to be 'A Song of Fire and Ice' levels of "SRS BSNS!"

That said, there are some really memorable moments in the Horus Heresy series. Still not taking it seriously, but loving it all the same.

 

[Reveras]

I like the 40K universe mostly because of some of their stories. Very entertaining stuff and some races have a nice touch to them: I personally like the Tau quite a bit.

 

[Togs]

I've always thought the universe didnt take itself seriously- for something that takes every trope and cliche and overeggs them to such a degree to work it has to be tongue in cheek.
Or so I thought, reading through some the newest codexes and fluffwork thats either gone or was never present, making the whole thing seem just stupid.

 

[bobknowsall]

It's a setting that can be viewed as over-the-top parody or a grim parable of a dark future. It all depends on who's writing it.

Variety's the spice of life, right?

 

[Waaghpowa]

People actually take it seriously?

 

[renegade7]

Not in entirety. The only races I really take seriously are the Necrons and Tyrannids. Everything else, Chaos and humans in particular, just seems so pointlessly over-the-top. The Necrons in particular are easier to take seriously because they are a lot more subtle, and that makes them quite a bit scarier.

 

[theonecookie]

Setting with every planet, city complex, space station or vessel bearing name stolen from some Black Metal band ? Without any plausible economy ? With heavily armored knights dying as easily as light infantrymen ? Serious ? No. By all gods, no !

The fuck? Economy is based on forge worlds processing materials stripped from mine worlds, food is produced by dedicated agri-worlds and hosing space is provided by planets turned into vast tower blocks. Economy exists, it's just on a grand scale. Do your research, or shut up.

Let me qualify this by saying I have been a massive 40k fan for 11 years now. I have a sizeable Alpha Legion army and an in progress World Eaters army. Yesterday the stuff I ordered to finish my Goliath gang for Necromunda came in the mail. I love 40k.

But he's right about a lot of the logistics making no sense. You just have to turn off that part of your brain and accept it. For instance, the Death Korps of Krieg. They willingly sacrifice entire regiments as long as they win. They come from one planet. They can not sustain these tactics for long. But you just have to put that thought out of your mind and go with it.

Well the death korps make heavy use of cloning last I heard which makes sense seeing as there was only ten of them left after they nuked them self's

OT: honestly I think it depends because when you look back to the rogue trader days its was so full of 80's amazingness that it was a definite piss take but then they tried to do it seriously so it gets a bit confusing you only need to look at the gaunts ghosts novels and compare them with the Ciaphas Cain ones to see this and don't get me started on the eye of terror being crated because the eldar out did charlie sheen at doing coke

 

[Nomine88]

If your answer to any of those questions is 'no', then you either have no sense of humor or Warhammer just isn't for you, so ignore it.

Interesting. First post on this forum and all you do is scolding over simple question.

Pretty loose interpretation of scolding, I would think. Not scolding, just offering advice. No use going around and stressing oneself out on how a game should be taken if you are not it's targeted audience in the first place, yeah? ^_-

 

[Togs]

At the risk of sounding like a Xenophobic git, I honestly think a lot of the misunderstanding comes from the fact that Americans don't really get British snarky sarcasm or satire. Warhammer 40K was cut from the same cloth as other satiric works of British geekdom in the 80s, such as Judge Dredd, and you guys over the Atlantic showed us how little you actually 'got' Judge Dredd when you made that awful Sylvester Stallone movie. Unfortunately, part of the problem is that recent writers such has Matt Ward (boo!) are also too dense to detect the satire, and insist on playing stuff dead straight. It doesn't change, however, that the core of Warhammer 40K is not, not, NOT the Grimdark seriousness its stereotyped as. Warhammer 40K is built out of a very British sense of black humour, and that dark-as-pitch comedy runs right the way through the universe.

Maybe, but you've got a thoroughbred brit here who is as confused as the OP- a childhood spent playing the game and thinking it one big hilarious joke has recently been called into question- the recent Space Marine game being of the reasons, along with the fluff in the 5th edition codexes.

 

[Littaly]

I wouldn't say there's a clear answer to the question (but then again, is there ever?). It's certainly very close to the edge of self parody, but I've never had any troubles taking it seriously. Then again I can totally see why people wouldn't.

... Hurray for vague answers ^^

 

[Jodah]

Well, in the actual lore those "purple beams" that the noise marines fire cause every organ and bone in your body to explode...sounds pretty serious to me.

 

[Versuvius]

On another note: Some regions of space are destitute with no working economy and some places, mostly religious or military centers are funded by a galaxy wide inflow of tax, tithes and donations.

It is possible that the economy is a false economy funded by the local governments who basically mete out arbitary amounts of resources and wealth (leaving them with vast amounts to pay direct to sources) to make the imperial citizens feel free and indipendant, but really arent. That bit is speculation.

 

[JesterRaiin]

Still, think of the logistics. There are hundreds, if not thousands of Krieg regiments. If they can throw away 10,000 and still win then the regiment must be larger than that. Consider that the planet would still need millions of people in order to run itself. Think of how many people this must be. And they only come from one planet.

Different example : how much does it COSTS to train one Space Marine ? Is it economically acceptable to mantain such relics of ancient chivalry if they die so easily ? WH40k tabletop is a little bit reasonable but video games, Space Hulk branch or this, ummmm, wonderful piece of art that is "Space Marine" movie suggests that Space Marines dies oh so easily.

How about you know, economy like on earth. Planet's don't get food and resources from somewhere else. They make it on those same freaking planets. Besides, so what if the economy is not explained. That's hardly as interesting as plots, schemes, wars, death and destruction etc.

Nope. On our planet's surface no enemy can just appear in the middle of your territory and devastate city or two. Distances can be easily crossed with (i guess) close to 100% chance of success (with the exception of Somalia piracy is practically nonexisten and our weather reports aren't that bad). History proves that countries can't sustain full scale modern war for long. And how about those worlds covered with one big factory complex from pole to pole ? Where does food grows, how siple people live there... No, i guess it isn't just possible to take experience from our good old mother Earth and say "it's exactly like this but simpler and on huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge scale.[/quote]

Besides, so what if the economy is not explained. That's hardly as interesting as plots, schemes, wars, death and destruction etc.

Sure. Every time i play game in WH40k setting, read the novel or something i don't care about that sh*t at all. However each time anyone tries to prove that it's a possible, reasonable vision... No. Just no.

If your answer to any of those questions is 'no', then you either have no sense of humor or Warhammer just isn't for you, so ignore it.

Interesting. First post on this forum and all you do is scolding over simple question.

Pretty loose interpretation of scolding, I would think. Not scolding, just offering advice. No use going around and stressing oneself out on how a game should be taken if you are not it's targeted audience in the first place, yeah? ^_-

No point in answering unasked questions instead of just going with the flow i guess... ;p

 

[SniperMacFox]

To be honest, I can take this as seriously as I can take things like 300 and starship troopers. I grew up with 40K and it's always been about unstoppable badasses available in plastic or metal. In terms of game mythos, I think the 40K universe is up there in terms of scale, as it does try to sell itself as a massive space opera and to it's credit, some of the most fun books I've ever read are part of the rather impressive Black Library catalogue.

If I wanted to prove that gaming could become a defining genre in narrative then I would definitely not choose Warhammer in its many iterations, but if I wanted to set a bar for any narrative within video games, Warhammer would be it.