Poll: Is grinding with another person of the opposite sex considered cheating?

[Nuxxy]

If it involves the sex organs, it's sexual. If it's sexual, it's cheating. And the fact that it made you upset should be ample proof.

This is a test of your relationship. How you view each other and how you handle difficult situations. You need to have an honest heart-to-heart. Explain how and why you feel betrayed by her actions - not "you cheated on me" but "i feel hurt by what you did and because you tried to defend it". But give her an 'out' - the chance to make amends. In the end, it's not about 'right' or 'wrong', or whether she can justify it - in the end, it hurt you, and if she truly cares for you that's what should matter.

For reference, since people love to follow the Clinton route and bring semantics into it...Cheating, by definition, is being "sexually unfaithful" [dictionary.com]. Faithfulness involves "steady in allegiance or affection; loyal; constant; reliable; trusted" [dictionary.com].

 

[RoBi3.0]

What is and is not cheating is something that ultimately can only be defined on a couple to couple basis.

So in short if you feel that it was cheating it is cheating. If it was something that you found out for someone else and that she was not openly discussing with you, then chances are she knew it would make you upset. Therefore she knew it was cheating.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Just a question, and this is just something I haven't seen anyone bring up here yet, but do you ever go dancing with her? You're right about it being sexual, but if the reason she's going without you is because you won't go with her, she might just want to dance, and if that's the case it might do you some good to go with her. Even if it's not your scene, you can just drink and grind on her.

But I will say you should definitely be vocal about something if it legitimately bothers you. You can forgive it if she only did it because she didn't think it was a big deal but if this is going to be a thing that continues to happen now that she knows you don't like it, shutting up about it and pretending like everything's fine is just gonna piss you off more.

 

[Olas]

The hell is grinding?

You mean she was doing this to a guy?

God I feel sorry for the poor bastard.

 

[WWmelb]

Whether it's sexual depends on the culture and people involved.
And whether it's cheating depends on what kind of lines you draw in your relationship.
I know couples who would not consider even sex with other people cheating, because they have agreed that their relationship is open.

Would she be okay with you doing it with other people?

I wouldn't call it cheating if she had no idea you would be upset, but you probably should have a discussion about it.

Exactly.

The only thing i would consider as cheating, is if my girlfriend slept with someone or someones and didn't tell me about it.

We are very open, sex is sex, we both have things we like that the other isn't into, so why deny ourselves or each other? She likes to go clubbing and dance too, and i fucking hate it. And she likes it dirty. So more power to her lol. Not unheard of for her to bring people home either, which always makes for a fun time.

That being said, we are different to most, soooo... yeah, if it makes you uncomfortable, then you should discuss it with her. However, examine yourself as well as to WHY it makes you uncomfortable, and question whether it really is a big deal or not, or if you are overreacting.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

As someone who thinks that 'cheating' is a weird, possessive concept that ill-fits the realities of our tendencies and capacity as a species, I think it has every possibility of being completely fine. In all reality, the reason why cheating is so harmful is not the sexual content, but the fact of someone you love being dishonest or distrustful. That, in any context, is not acceptable for someone who is supposed to be your main subject of affection... but it's only through a strange and primitive continuation of the "Only I get mating rights" vestige of instinct that this applies to sexuality whole cloth.

I know you've got your opinion and your value system, and it works beautifully for you, but there's no reason to cast aspersion on others as ignorant, primitive cave people who have yet to arrive at your particular epiphany. Fact is: some of us have tried it on, and it didn't fit for crap. These are largely emotional attachments for a lot of people, and what you feel is simply what you feel. Doesn't mean anyone needs reprogramming, even if that worked for you. Not that you advocated as much, really, but your stuff came off a little charged.

OP: I'm apparently more conservative than I'd previously thought because I think dismissing overtly sexual behavior on the grounds that "them's the times we live in" is complete bullshit. You wanna grind on some other dude, do it when you're single. Wanna get into a big huge fight about it while completely ignoring my feelings? Congratulations. You're single. Sounds harsh, but really think about it. She's essentially saying it's more important for her to grind another dude's dick guilt-free than it is for you to feel secure and comfortable in your relationship. That's beyond selfish.

At the same time, the best advice for relationship issues is always the same: count to 100, take several deep breaths, write the angry letter and put it in your top drawer, etc. Relax, think about what you want to say and how you want to say it, and try to remain calm and collected. If she's already defensive, there's no reason to escalate things. Tell her how you feel, why you feel that way, and then promptly tell her you'd like a few days to think about things. Don't deliver it as a threat. Just let her know you're not on board with what happened and how she's defending it, then give her some time to think about it.

If she's not willing to give up "grinding on strange penises in public" for the good of your relationship, so be it. You'll know that, and you can make a better informed decision about your future together or otherwise.

 

[lunavixen]

It's sexual, but I wouldn't consider it cheating, disrespectful certainly and it would hurt my feelings (if it happened to me). Why not sit down with her and sort this out, it's your best bet to getting a straight answer and finding boundaries.

 

[CriticalMiss]

Sexual? Possibly. Cheating? Not really. Inappropriate? Certainly.

She seemed to be making excuses about it and as someone previously asked would she do it in front of you? I'd rather not say something that makes another person break up a relationship but I would have my doubts about her if I were you. If grinding up against someone's genitals is 'not really a big deal' then I'm not sure what she thinks is. Maybe double anal fisting is a step too far for her? (although I hear everyone is doing it).

If I had found out my girlfriend had been grinding away at the local lesbian population behind my back I'd be rather annoyed. More so if she was so blasé about it and tried to pass it off as 'not really a big deal'.

 

[Norithics]

I know you've got your opinion and your value system, and it works beautifully for you, but there's no reason to cast aspersion on others as ignorant, primitive cave people who have yet to arrive at your particular epiphany. Fact is: some of us have tried it on, and it didn't fit for crap. These are largely emotional attachments for a lot of people, and what you feel is simply what you feel. Doesn't mean anyone needs reprogramming, even if that worked for you. Not that you advocated as much, really, but your stuff came off a little charged.

I'm terribly sorry if it came off that way. I didn't mean to imply that you can't be upset by that without being a cro-magnon that just can't "get with the times" or something. Rather, what I'm saying is that we just sort of... accept this idea whole cloth and it never gets examined for what it is. It's upsetting to me that something as personal and unique as "how relationships work" gets this one-size-fits-all rulesheet that's pressed into our minds from a young age, and whether it be the reptile brain or Disney mush, it's unfortunate that we decide what's right before we even really understand how to determine that.

I guess, as well, what really gets me about it is that the underlying premise confuses me. The idea is that if you share sex with somebody else, that cheapens what happens with your lover. But insofar as I've seen, it's almost apples and oranges to some degree. Sex is something that typically happens less and less as you progress in a relationship, and it isn't necessarily because your drive for it decreases, but rather because it becomes something so special to you that you can't have it just because of a physical desire. The emotions, the memories, the feelings that are expressed between one another is intense; it's a revisiting of all the time you've spent and complicated relationship you've built with them.

So then, sex with someone else, with whom you don't have all that time and experience and emotion... it's not even comparable. It's pleasurable and exciting and... plenty of other positive adjectives, but in no way does it even begin to encroach on the special things you've built with the one you're most attached to. So- and I may be the victim of my own singular human experience here, but- how does it even have anything to do with your larger relationship? I don't know, it's just very odd to me. It's like, I feel the same deep connection with my SO when we play video games or watch a movie or anything that we do together, and doing those things with somebody else wouldn't even begin to cheapen that experience, because it's just not comparable. So I suppose I have a hard time seeing the issue beyond an assumed fear.

 

[Silverfox99]

I believe that asking a forum is not the right way to handle this situation. I think this, because everyone will tell you what cheating is to them not what is cheating to your relationship. You have to set boundaries for every relationship that you are in. If you didn't set the boundary then she has not done anything wrong. If this bothers you then set the boundary.

It is up to you and your girlfriend to determine what is acceptable behavior and to agree to act in a way that is acceptable to both people. Don't assume your partner believes the same way about these things as you do. It needs to be talk about and agreed upon. Then if they go counter to the agreement then they have cheated.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

Since this is a gaming forum, I was totally expecting this to be about level grinding. I had such a great reply ready to go too. I am disappointed.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Would it have mattered if she was slow dancing with another guy? Would doing a ballroom dance with another man be cheating? No. Women can slow dance with brothers, fathers and uncles and it's not strange. I admit bumping and grinding with an unrelated guy *is* different (related would be worrying), but it's still dancing. Women love to dance and even those in relationships still like to flirt. There is definitely sexual overtones to it, but it's no worse than doing a tango or waltz.

Anyway, this is just an opinion and ultimately you feel how you feel and you two need to talk. If you don't like it, you can tell her and if she cares she'll respect that in the future.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

I wouldn't call it cheating as such, but for me that would be over the line in terms of what I'd consider acceptable behaviour in a (non casual) relationship. But I'm old, back in my day dancing consisted of shoving a bunch of little pills down your throat and then flailing around like a lunatic for the next 12 hours. Kids these days eh? Dry humping each other as a dance, go figure.

Maybe she didn't think it's a big deal, but as others have said, it clearly bothers you and it's going to cause problems if she does it again. I can't really tell you how to discuss this with her but you need to come to some sort of understanding about it that you both feel comfortable with.

For the record, no, I would not grind on someone I knew had a significant other. Maybe it is "just how people dance" these days but only the most monumentally stupid couldn't see that the origins of that dance are sexual.

 

[Ieyke]

It's UTTERLY sexual, and borderline cheating insofar as it completely disrespects and show no regard for your relationship/loyalty to you.

As said, that IS the way people dance....when they're looking for someone to sleep with.
Context is indeed everything.

 

[Neonit]

How about instead of "is it cheating or not", you simply tell her that you do not appreciate it, and would like her to never do it again?
If she considers something that bothers you normal, you should discuss it. If she is not willing to discuss it, you might consider breaking up.

I really dont see what the problem is. You should never give a damn about what other think - discuss what you think.

Anecdote:

Spoiler

Everyone is a little different. For example, i know a women who is very tolerant about what her man does. With one exception - getting wasted. She has her reasons for it, she explained it to her man, and he decided that (while he doesnt 100% agree with her) he will prevent getting himself wasted, because that is something that she doesnt appreciate.
A lot of people said it was crazy, and that getting wasted is normal. No shits given, because they are different.

So what i am trying to say is - just go discuss it with her and explain your feelings. And as to "is it cheating or not" - well, that depends if she cheated (and thus lost) your trust. You lose trust when someone does something, you do not appreciate them doing. Seems simple enough to me.

ps and ffs, dont do the whole "if you can do it, i can as well" because that is just childish, and will mean that the action itself doesnt bother you, but the person doing it.

 

[BarbaricGoose]

All this talk of grinding has my side aching from laughter. You might say my sides have been... grin... I got nothin'.

I'm against it. But I'm against anyone that dances like a fucking moron. Have sex, or go dancing. Don't do both. It sounds pretty sexual to me, honestly. I'd be angry if my significant other started doing it.

My advice: stop dating girls; find a woman. But hey, that's just me.

Best of luck with your situation and such.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

Would it have mattered if she was slow dancing with another guy? Would doing a ballroom dance with another man be cheating? No. Women can slow dance with brothers, fathers and uncles and it's not strange. I admit bumping and grinding with an unrelated guy *is* different (related would be worrying), but it's still dancing. Women love to dance and even those in relationships still like to flirt. There is definitely sexual overtones to it, but it's no worse than doing a tango or waltz.

See, this is where I just flat-out disagree. Grinding your ass on a strange man's penis, through his pants, seems worlds worse than doing a tango or a waltz. I'll gladly acknowledge that grinding is prevalent in clubs today, but that doesn't diminish the sexuality of the act. Car sex in public parks is also on the rise, but that doesn't mean I just brush it off as this generation's version of a picnic.

I'm terribly sorry if it came off that way. I didn't mean to imply that you can't be upset by that without being a cro-magnon that just can't "get with the times" or something. Rather, what I'm saying is that we just sort of... accept this idea whole cloth and it never gets examined for what it is. It's upsetting to me that something as personal and unique as "how relationships work" gets this one-size-fits-all rulesheet that's pressed into our minds from a young age, and whether it be the reptile brain or Disney mush, it's unfortunate that we decide what's right before we even really understand how to determine that.

That's fair. A lot of relationship concepts are unrealistically idealized in media, but that doesn't mean media invented them. And even if media or religion or culture is responsible for reinforcing those concepts to a powerful degree, that doesn't rule out the possibility that these forces are merely expressing notions that appeal to people intrinsically. Might be "the rules", illogical or irrational as they may be, are simply the set-dressing we use to explain away the things we want for no reason other than we want them.

I guess, as well, what really gets me about it is that the underlying premise confuses me. The idea is that if you share sex with somebody else, that cheapens what happens with your lover. But insofar as I've seen, it's almost apples and oranges to some degree. Sex is something that typically happens less and less as you progress in a relationship, and it isn't necessarily because your drive for it decreases, but rather because it becomes something so special to you that you can't have it just because of a physical desire. The emotions, the memories, the feelings that are expressed between one another is intense; it's a revisiting of all the time you've spent and complicated relationship you've built with them.

So then, sex with someone else, with whom you don't have all that time and experience and emotion... it's not even comparable. It's pleasurable and exciting and... plenty of other positive adjectives, but in no way does it even begin to encroach on the special things you've built with the one you're most attached to. So- and I may be the victim of my own singular human experience here, but- how does it even have anything to do with your larger relationship? I don't know, it's just very odd to me. It's like, I feel the same deep connection with my SO when we play video games or watch a movie or anything that we do together, and doing those things with somebody else wouldn't even begin to cheapen that experience, because it's just not comparable. So I suppose I have a hard time seeing the issue beyond an assumed fear.

If you don't feel any semblance of jealousy or betrayal or possessiveness, I suppose I'm impressed. You've banished all insecurity to a point where nothing will ever really phase you. I'm not wired that way. I enjoy the reassurance that comes from exclusivity, from another person's desire to be with me over all others - and I enjoy alleviating that same insecurity in my partner. I guess that makes me weaker than you, but that's who I am.

 

[Norithics]

That's fair. A lot of relationship concepts are unrealistically idealized in media, but that doesn't mean media invented them. And even if media or religion or culture is responsible for reinforcing those concepts to a powerful degree, that doesn't rule out the possibility that these forces are merely expressing notions that appeal to people intrinsically. Might be "the rules", illogical or irrational as they may be, are simply the set-dressing we use to explain away the things we want for no reason other than we want them.

No, that's certainly true enough, art definitely imitates life in this case. I suppose the one caveat I would encourage is that media tends not to just sensationalize or caricature relationships (and everything else) in their singular portrayals, but it ALSO tends to give volume to one particular set of ideals (tropes, basically) beyond what their actual reflection would be in people as a whole because certain types of people are the ones setting the stage.

If you don't feel any semblance of jealousy or betrayal or possessiveness, I suppose I'm impressed. You've banished all insecurity to a point where nothing will ever really phase you. I'm not wired that way. I enjoy the reassurance that comes from exclusivity, from another person's desire to be with me over all others - and I enjoy alleviating that same insecurity in my partner. I guess that makes me weaker than you, but that's who I am.

I disagree! I don't think that makes you weaker than anybody. On the contrary, actually, if you have an emotional component that you can't change about yourself even upon a closer look, then facing that honestly is the most mature and rational thing you could possibly do. I've always stressed the idea that feelings can't be wrong. They can be illogical, misplaced or even strange, but they cannot be wrong. And so long as you've got a healthy sense of self-analysis, they can't even be blamed.

And after all, like I said in my first post, the important part is communication. I've seen people, for instance, trying open relationships and failing for the same reason that more... 'conservative(?)' relationships did: they didn't actually talk to each other honestly. They just took something that seemed correct on the surface and tried to mash it into their dealings, and it absolutely didn't work.