Poll: Is Music Art?

[ThreeWords]

Yes, all music is art.

But just because it's art, doesn't mean it's good.

 

[Disaster Button]

That art is very open to personal interpretation up to the point where one person could go far as to call something "not art" if they don't like it, I don't feel that way (mostly) but I was trying to address both points of view without making it a bias OP.

Okay. Well that's an admirable goal, but quite frankly it' easier to get your point across if you and everyone else accept that we are all biased creatures by default, don't you agree?

Still, would be kinda interesting discussing the artistic merits of any given art or particular artist (musical or not).

It's like with that other thread recently about the "rape tunnel". Now no one can really claim that the rape tunnel isn't art, but you can certainly question and discuss the motivations behind the rape tunnel and compare just how advanced and sophisticated those motivations are.

To me, the rape tunnel is just an art in provocation and nothing more, and if the artist himself would try to ascribe something else to it, then I probably would't believe him.

But this thread was about music, so I'll stick with music, and why not Lady Gaga herself since I opened up that can of worms.

Now I have been checking up on some information about where she draws her inspiration from when singing some of her songs, and one thing she has told the media is that one source of inspiration of hers is:... "Fashion". (clothing fashion)

Im not going to claim to be unbiased here, but I consider fashion to be one of the most impersonal sources of inspiration ever. We have countless musical artists out there who really pour their heart and soul out in their lyrics and music, they sing about loved ones, about their feelings, about best friends who have died and the emptiness that they left behind etc. etc.

And this hack sings about the ridiculous clothes she likes to wear on a friday night out.

But then again, maybe clothing is something very personal and important to her and that's why it sparks her imagination, but that will bite her in the butt as well, because if you consider clothes to be so important and personal then you have to be a really bland and uninteresting person in my opinion, so there's really not much she could do to try selling her "musical art" to me.


Now in an effort to keep this from becoming a smug and arrogant rant, I feel that perhaps I should adress another issue with music in general. I sort of "praised" the musical artists out there who really pour their heart and soul into their music, but we all have to admit, aren't songs about love, loss, feelings etc. etc. a bit... "stereotypical"?

I mean, whenever I hear some new "star" or "starlett" being interviewed about this latest song of theirs, and they say: "Well... It's a lovesong". I tend to go:

"Gee, wow! Now that's quite original of you. Because we have this really big shortage on lovesongs in the world..."

I know, im a bit paradoxical person myself, but then again, who isn't?

Perhaps music have already passed it's critical mass. Perhaps all the relevant topics have already been adressed with music. Perhaps it is impossible to avoid being either stereotypical or boring/impersonal.

Perhaps that's why I can really get into ambient music without lyrics, because it doesn't have to be about a specific topic or category, it can just speak to you anyway, without any real communication...

Yeah I agree we are all biased people but I think the best way to get a discussion that isn't mostly hate reponse is to try and keep it as open and 2 sided as possible and I was kinda hoping for a discussion on the merits of music and artists but it can be difficult for people to open up about things like that as music is often close to people so they don't like to voice how they feel in a public forum.

And I didn't know that about Lady Gaga but I do know most of her album is on the aspiration for Fame. But what I liked about Paparazzi is that it comments on the effects of it, and not just the I'M FAMOUS LOL side of things but deeper meanings and actually being open to interpretation.

But I agree that most songs released by new artists are about love and basically love songs, which ain't the most original thing ever which is why I like it when you get artists who release love songs that aren't general boyfriend bashing or something to that effect. So I suppose even in saying that it's contradictory. But liek you said, most of us walking contradictions. And with ambient music I often listen to it as without lyrics you can really experiment with instruments and let them tell an emotional story all by themselves, which are very open to interpretation.

And I saw the Rape Tunnel and I suppose it can be classified as art yeah, but I wanted a Hug Tunnel.

 

[GrinningManiac]

I take it you mean modern types of music.

You forget, of course, the entire history of music. So far, what "modern" music amounts to is a comma, nay, a fleck of dust on the comma of Muscial History

 

[Xanadu84]

Nostalgia glasses. Lets stop punching each other in the proverbial gonads when it comes to art snobbery and use words for meanings instead of as over sized trepanning mallets. Music is art. Every last damn bit of it. Whether its good art or bad art is something you can argue over once you start deconstructing it, but you have to start out at the fact that all music is art. Is music from the past better then the music of the present? Well yes, I imagine so, seeing how the past had thousands of years to come up with good songs, whereas the present has pretty much had today. If you really, absolutely must pull out some music snobbery, then here you go: Music distribution is evolving. More and more, small time independent artists are the ones moving up in the world to establish a niche, and music genres are so varied and widespread that there's a lot of deviation. The popular music is like Pepperoni on Pizza: it's not the best topping out there, only a few people like it best, and most people really want there stranger toppings, but Pepperoni happens to be the lowest common denominator of pizza toppings that the largest number of people will tolerate. But with Music distribution evolving and changing, it gets easier to find those niches you like, and stick with them. New music has a more exciting sense of discovery too it. If its worth it to you, you have to look for it, and the tools to do so are getting more and more advanced.

 

[Disaster Button]

Of course music is art. All music is art. I just drew this:

Just because it isn't as good as this:

Doesn't make it not art. It's a spectrum, and they are near opposing ends but still are on the spectrum. The same applies to music.

Also, interesting that you cite Queen. They were good, but they were just a pop band as well. What of their songs meant more than any pop stuff that's around today?

And music doesn't have to have insightful lyrics to be art. Beethoven? Mozart?

Your picture is cute. But I think I was being a bit vague, when I said pop I meant something like when a new artist releases a song and it's about something incredibly superficial, or when it's not even wrote by them.

And I just mentioned lyrics as an example, I like music without lyrics jsut the same. Maybe even more in some respects as the instruments can really be used to tell a story purely open to inerpretation, but that usually is only done by accomplished musicians, or at least one's who use their own intruments.

But you are right, I was using the whole "not art" thing as an example of some people I know saying this song isn't art based on their interpretation, not as a generalisation about all music of that genre.

 

[Livi70590]

Music is not art. Music is business.

I think this is the only music that passes for art.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Rainbows

 

[Cody211282]

Well i dont like art much so can i say the stuff i like isnt?

 

[Hitman 43]

I suppose some songs. The ones which are VERY good.

 

[Mozared]

But why has Music of late (generally) not on par with those bands. Why does no one say: "That [band name] are great, like The Beatles, y'know?"

Under what rock have you been living? There's plenty of musical elitists, tough metalheads and deranged alternative folks around who'll go apeshit about the topic.

Anyway, I didn't vote because I don't like the word "Art". 999 times out of 1000 the word is abused and used in a non-logical and completely inexplicable sense. I myself look at music in a really simple way - I rate the lyrics, instrumental parts and originality of a song on a 1 to 10 rating and then add the numbers and divide them by 3: if the result is a 5.5 or higher, it's generally music 'worth listening to'. Others might call it "art" at that point, but like I said, I don't like the word. If you must use it though, songs that score at least an 8 on my 'system' are what I'd define as art.

As for what kind of music I'd rate such an 8 or higher... Streetlight Manifesto, Ayreon, Bad Religion and A Wilhelm Scream, to name a few. There aren't that many I guess; about 80% of everything I listen to is in the 5.5 to 7.9 area.

 

[Disaster Button]

But why has Music of late (generally) not on par with those bands. Why does no one say: "That [band name] are great, like The Beatles, y'know?"

Under what rock have you been living? There's plenty of musical elitists, tough metalheads and deranged alternative folks around who'll go apeshit about the topic.

Anyway, I didn't vote because I don't like the word "Art". 999 times out of 1000 the word is abused and used in a non-logical and completely inexplicable sense. I myself look at music in a really simple way - I rate the lyrics, instrumental parts and originality of a song on a 1 to 10 rating and then add the numbers and divide them by 3: if the result is a 5.5 or higher, it's generally music 'worth listening to'. Others might call it "art" at that point, but like I said, I don't like the word. If you must use it though, songs that score at least an 8 on my 'system' are what I'd define as art.

As for what kind of music I'd rate such an 8 or higher... Streetlight Manifesto, Ayreon, Bad Religion and A Wilhelm Scream, to name a few. There aren't that many I guess; about 80% of everything I listen to is in the 5.5 to 7.9 area.

What I meant by that is like, in the media, some people I know, things like that always seem to regard the Beatles as the best thing EVAR, it's not what I believe was jsut putting that point of view out there. But I never heard anyone say someone is better than the Beatles..

But I'm the same I rate songs on their music, lyrics, story, feeling, sound, I could go on. Although I rate it on a scale of ZOMG I LOVE THAT or, that's terrible. I was just using art as an umbrella term as something easy to understand

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

Music is not art. Music is business.

I think this is the only music that passes for art.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Rainbows

Oh my. You need to check out some avant-garde.
Check out Tzadik Records. John Zorn's record label.
Total artistic integrity on that label. Nothing is screwed with. It's all just artists expressing themselves in the purest possible way.

For a start you should check out "Kayo Dot - Choirs Of The Eye" and "Secret Chiefs 3 - Xaphan Book Of Angels Volume 9."

To say Radiohead is the only music that passes as art reeks of:
a) naivety
b) short sightedness
c) a lack of knowledge of music
d) utter hilarity

Radiohead, artistically, are small fishes.
I could give you mountains upon mountains of music that is sheer, uncompromised ART. If you're interested shoot me a message and I'll give you my MSN.

 

[Nuke_em_05]

Yes. It conveys a message or thought in a creative manner. Whether or not the message is worthwhile or the method of delivery has been done before, or you don't like the content or delivery, is part of it being art, the interpretation.

To say it is done for money makes it not art... well, do it for money not, it's still art, you've just got to make sure your message and delivery will sell if you are doing it for money. Holds true in paintings, sculptures, archetecture, etc.

 

[Shralla]

It doesn't have to be good to be art. So yes, all music is art. Just like all creative ventures of any kind.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

And with ambient music I often listen to it as without lyrics you can really experiment with instruments and let them tell an emotional story all by themselves, which are very open to interpretation.

Exactly!

It's sort of the stuff that really made classical music great. Composers of classical music didn't always dabble in lyrics or even naming their songs. Some of them could simply have been called "Song no. 1" or "Song no. 2"

These songs didn't have any predetermined context or tried to influence the listener by creating a set line of thinking and feeling. It was just lyricless music. And considering the fact that people still listen to it, nay it is even considered "high culture" listening to it, pretty much cements the geniusness of it all.

Music that takes a step back from lyrics and song titles have the capabilities to explore artistic venues that are nearly endless, even for modern musical artists.

And I saw the Rape Tunnel and I suppose it can be classified as art yeah, but I wanted a Hug Tunnel.

But come on. A "Hug Tunnel" wouldn't have been as funny as the "Rape Tunnel". I know, rape isn't funny business, but only through comedy can we prevail against all the sad and despicable acts in the world. And the very idea of a Rape Tunnel is so hilariously over the top that I don't really care if the guy behind it is serious or not. It's dark comedy for me, and that makes it funny. XD

 

[Disaster Button]

And with ambient music I often listen to it as without lyrics you can really experiment with instruments and let them tell an emotional story all by themselves, which are very open to interpretation.

Exactly!

It's sort of the stuff that really made classical music great. Composers of classical music didn't always dabble in lyrics or even naming their songs. Some of them could simply have been called "Song no. 1" or "Song no. 2"

These songs didn't have any predetermined context or tried to influence the listener by creating a set line of thinking and feeling. It was just lyricless music. And considering the fact that people still listen to it, nay it is even considered "high culture" listening to it, pretty much cements the geniusness of it all.

Music that takes a step back from lyrics and song titles have the capabilities to explore artistic venues that are nearly endless, even for modern musical artists.

And I saw the Rape Tunnel and I suppose it can be classified as art yeah, but I wanted a Hug Tunnel.

But come on. A "Hug Tunnel" wouldn't have been as funny as the "Rape Tunnel". I know, rape isn't funny business, but only through comedy can we prevail against all the sad and despicable acts in the world. And the very idea of a Rape Tunnel is so hilariously over the top that I don't really care if the guy behind it is serious or not. It's dark comedy for me, and that makes it funny. XD

Sorry but Song 2 is taken. It's an awesome song by Blur. But any other number is cool.

It was hilarious but I know what I'd rather have if I was in the position of walking down the tunnel, and it wouldn't be a bucket of rape. But apparently it isn't rape as you're already consenting by walking down the tunnel knowing what your gonna get

 

[Samuel Cook]

I wouldn't say all songs are 'Art', but most songs are based on an emotion, and alot of art is, so in that sense, yes, they are similar.

 

[Akai Shizuku]

Music is art. It, like other art, has high and low points. Let me give an example of what I think to be one of its high points.

I don't think I have to post an example for low.

 

[Knonsense]

Art is a deliberate arrangement of aesthetic elements. It doesn't have to be deep, angsty, or beautiful to be art.

Also, there always has been and always will be shitty art. It's just generally not as memorable as good art and doesn't inspire people to preserve or show it.

Music is art in the same way that modern art is art, that is to say it's not art anymore but a bullshit business designed to fool the stupid and get lots of money from the stupider.

I don't see how being able to enjoy something that you and I may not be able to enjoy makes those people stupid.

 

[Latinidiot]

music is art, but you have to think that art hasn't always been art. for instance, in the Roman era(hen they made the nice marble status), making one of those statues wasn't an art, it was a craft, not different from carpenters and such. now art is art. you know, l'art pour l'art. it may have no other purpose than simply to be, to be art. now most peolpe find it also should be at least pretty, but that is the difference between good art and bad art. and so yes, music is art, and you have good and bad. i find the new Porcupine Tree CD to be a pinnacle of art music, but that's just me.

 

[EscapeGoat_v1legacy]

I would say music is art. Any piece of music is an act of creativity and expression, and that, for me, is pretty much a summation of art. Even if I don't like a song, I still think it can be called art.