Poll: Is Sexual Orientation Nurture or Nature?

[Captain Blackout]

Three things go into making each person who/what they are. In order they are: Genetics, environment, personal choice. This goes for almost every aspect of our existences. Doubly so for orientation. I read all the research and did the math.
However, this only begins to scratch the surface. The fact is that most of us can get physical pleasure from either gender. I guarantee you a lot more of us would be bisexual to at least some degree in the right setting. We are born with an inclination one direction or the other (hetero or homo), our environment pushes us even further (i.e. Christian family beats kid for being weird, kid feels he must go one way or another) and in the end we make a choice about what to do with our urges. After a lot of personal education I've come to accept the fact that I'm at least hetero-flexible. I'm not gay, I couldn't handle a monogamous relationship with a guy. I'm not straight, guys can and do turn me on. I am married and I live within the confines of my marriage (and before one of you dinks says so what happens when the other shoe drops I'm far more likely to cheat on my wife with a girl than a guy. I choose to NOT cheat, period.)
In summary, mostly nature (but rarely exclusively gay or straight), some nurture (we are all products of our upbringing one way or another it's unavoidable) and our own choice (we could all work to be asexual, but where's the fun in that?)

And just because I feel a deep need: Those of you who said mostly or all nurture, you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[sneakypenguin]

This reminds me of my favorite anti-homosexuality argument. "Being gay isn't natural, animals don't do it." *Cough Bonobo and Dolphin*cough*

Well, since we are extremely genetically close to Monkeys, I would have to say it is equally nature and nurture.

Hmmm but just because something occurs in nature doesn't mean it's natural there's always outliers and deviants.For example a mother forsaking her young might occur in nature but that doesn't make in a natural behavior.
Just throwing that out there.

 

[elemenetal150]

Homosexuality is a birth defect, pure and simple. Not saying that gay people are any less capable than normal straight people or bashing or anything like that, but studies show that gay men's brains react differently to male phermones than straight men's do. If you choose to be gay, then you're an idiot seeking attention and are more than likely just bi or dumb.

ummm you do realize that humans are not affected by pheromones right? yes we still have them, however they actually aren't used in sexual attraction anymore. we out grew them a long time ago

Nature. Us. Evolving.

I say that it's a combination of nature, nurture, and inherently unpredictable quantum effects, just like any other behavioral trait.

I had a longer post..But is disappeared.. sO here it is in a nutshell.

Your science fails.

Physical traits are inherited. Until scientists can blame your sexuality on a gene.. (Which I doubt at this point, seeing as all are mapped out)

That said, the only animals that you see whom have relationships with the same sex are primates and such.. Who have the capacity to think, to CHOOSE.

Umm... I seem to recall a picture of two male giraffes necking in my high school psych textbook... and a picture on Wikipedia of male penguins using a rock as a surrogate egg... and something about gay fireflies...

Giraffes can think can they not? Penguins can think can choose? (Like to sit on a damn egg for a long time, while the wife goes and gets some walrus)

again your logic that an animal that functions on instinct and has enough intelligence to solve basic problems in getting food and surviving in some way indicates reason is flawed. I don't know where you go to school be remind me to never send my children there, I would hate for them to grow up thinking things that are not true

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

I had a longer post..But is disappeared.. sO here it is in a nutshell.

Your science fails.

Physical traits are inherited. Until scientists can blame your sexuality on a gene.. (Which I doubt at this point, seeing as all are mapped out)

That said, the only animals that you see whom have relationships with the same sex are primates and such.. Who have the capacity to think, to CHOOSE.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=20718
1500 animals species practice homosexuality. Read it and be amazed.
My Psych book has a picture of two male wales going at it. I'm sure I can find the picture on the internet if you really want to see better proof.

"Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom"

Read my bold.
Who have the capacity to think, to CHOOSE.
(Incase you couldn't see it under quote stacks)

 

[Captain Blackout]

I'm puzzled by those who think it's genetic. It may have a biological cause, but why settle on genetics? By definition such a gene couldn't exist, because it wouldn't be passed on!

You have a shallow understanding of genetics.

 

[elemenetal150]

I'm puzzled by those who think it's genetic. It may have a biological cause, but why settle on genetics? By definition such a gene couldn't exist, because it wouldn't be passed on!

except that people suppress these being gay and breed all the time and even then it is possible for a such a gene to be recessive and get passed on for generations with out anyone actually being gay. Just because you have a gene doesn't mean it is active.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Homosexuality is a birth defect, pure and simple. Not saying that gay people are any less capable than normal straight people or bashing or anything like that, but studies show that gay men's brains react differently to male phermones than straight men's do. If you choose to be gay, then you're an idiot seeking attention and are more than likely just bi or dumb.

ummm you do realize that humans are not affected by pheromones right? yes we still have them, however they actually aren't used in sexual attraction anymore. we out grew them a long time ago

Nature. Us. Evolving.

I say that it's a combination of nature, nurture, and inherently unpredictable quantum effects, just like any other behavioral trait.

I had a longer post..But is disappeared.. sO here it is in a nutshell.

Your science fails.

Physical traits are inherited. Until scientists can blame your sexuality on a gene.. (Which I doubt at this point, seeing as all are mapped out)

That said, the only animals that you see whom have relationships with the same sex are primates and such.. Who have the capacity to think, to CHOOSE.

Umm... I seem to recall a picture of two male giraffes necking in my high school psych textbook... and a picture on Wikipedia of male penguins using a rock as a surrogate egg... and something about gay fireflies...

Giraffes can think can they not? Penguins can think can choose? (Like to sit on a damn egg for a long time, while the wife goes and gets some walrus)

again your logic that an animal that functions on instinct and has enough intelligence to solve basic problems in getting food and surviving in some way indicates reason is flawed. I don't know where you go to school be remind me to never send my children there, I would hate for them to grow up thinking things that are not true

LOL. What reason is flawed? I say animals can think, you say they are all instinct?

(Gay insects is new to me though, I didn't think instincts were that far advanced)

 

[Fenra]

My personal view is its a bit of both, its obviously biological on some level as some animals out there display homosexual behaviour (although thats a grey area as we cant be 100% certain as to the reasons behind it, some theorise its not for pleasure but merely to show dominance over other males etc) and of course we cant blame that on TV or said animal hanging around with a group of gay lions (silly way of putting it i know and i appologise)

however the way i see it is that while we are born with a prefence, with nature poiting us one way or the other it is nurture that pushes us towards where we finaly settle. For example a bi-sexual male who hangs around with a lot of straight men (through peer preasure amongst other things) will probably end up living his life as a straight man and vice versa, admitidly not all are bi and so that example isnt universally applicable but it has been shown in the past that gay men can settle down with women and raise families (the so called "living a lie" scenario) due to thier upbrining, surroundings and "nurture" so while genetics may govern sexual preference, nurture clearly plays a large role

of course all of that is my opinion only and everyone is entitled to thier own

 

[TwistedEllipses]

I had a longer post..But is disappeared.. sO here it is in a nutshell.

Your science fails.

Physical traits are inherited. Until scientists can blame your sexuality on a gene.. (Which I doubt at this point, seeing as all are mapped out)

That said, the only animals that you see whom have relationships with the same sex are primates and such.. Who have the capacity to think, to CHOOSE.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=20718
1500 animals species practice homosexuality. Read it and be amazed.
My Psych book has a picture of two male wales going at it. I'm sure I can find the picture on the internet if you really want to see better proof.

"Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom"

Read my bold.
Who have the capacity to think, to CHOOSE.
(Incase you couldn't see it under quote stacks)

Dogs when in season do seem to hump nearly everthing: cuddly toys, my leg, etc...

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

I had a longer post..But is disappeared.. sO here it is in a nutshell.

Your science fails.

Physical traits are inherited. Until scientists can blame your sexuality on a gene.. (Which I doubt at this point, seeing as all are mapped out)

That said, the only animals that you see whom have relationships with the same sex are primates and such.. Who have the capacity to think, to CHOOSE.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=20718
1500 animals species practice homosexuality. Read it and be amazed.
My Psych book has a picture of two male wales going at it. I'm sure I can find the picture on the internet if you really want to see better proof.

"Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom"

Read my bold.
Who have the capacity to think, to CHOOSE.
(Incase you couldn't see it under quote stacks)

Dogs when in season do seem to hump nearly everthing: cuddly toys, my leg, etc...

Hormones. Hell, if it was socially acceptable I would too.

 

[elemenetal150]

This reminds me of my favorite anti-homosexuality argument. "Being gay isn't natural, animals don't do it." *Cough Bonobo and Dolphin*cough*

Well, since we are extremely genetically close to Monkeys, I would have to say it is equally nature and nurture.

Hmmm but just because something occurs in nature doesn't mean it's natural there's always outliers and deviants.For example a mother forsaking her young might occur in nature but that doesn't make in a natural behavior.
Just throwing that out there.

This reminds me of my favorite anti-homosexuality argument. "Being gay isn't natural, animals don't do it." *Cough Bonobo and Dolphin*cough*

Well, since we are extremely genetically close to Monkeys, I would have to say it is equally nature and nurture.

Hmmm but just because something occurs in nature doesn't mean it's natural there's always outliers and deviants.For example a mother forsaking her young might occur in nature but that doesn't make in a natural behavior.
Just throwing that out there.

except that you are comparing an extremely odd and rare behavior by animals to one that is relatively common across inter species lines.

 

[Alex_P]

Nurture can effect on who you prefer to mate with, yes, but can it be profound enough to change your actual sexual orientation? After all, I have my preferences for women, but if a guy had every litte thing that turned me on, I still wouldn't have sex with him.

You said it yourself, though: every little thing about a guy turns you on, yet you still will not have sex with him. Sounds a lot like your culturally- and experientially-defined identity is modifying how you interpret and act on a biological response.

Ultimately, I think such questions are rather pointless; you can't draw a hard-and-fast line between "nature" and "nurture". To the extent that you can, it's almost entirely academic. You gain a little bit of practical knowledge from figuring out which genes or which environmental factors or which childhood experiences shape human sexuality, but it's largely a trivial point for everyone except moralistic whackjobs who equate "nurture" with "We can fix you!"

-- Alex

 

[maximilian]

Call me a party pooper, but what scientific evidence is there for a gay gene or of homosexuality at all? Surely "nature" is a highly dubious was of phrasing "unexplained but I hope it's science". You can't use the non-sequiter that "it feels natural so it's science/biology". It feels natural to me to run at the sight of nazi skinheads with knives and chains, but this extends biologically to my having a working limbic system. What has imprinted that in my limbic system was nurture/experience that has leaked into memory. You cannot navigate around the fact that same sex couples cannot biologically recreate, which, via Darwinism/evolution renders homosexuals as either anomaly or a weaker type of human.

So, my answer: 95% nurture and the rest is quota for the unknown.

Of course, a homosexual will comment stating "I've been gay since birth", but the truth is, if you knew anything about basic/classical psychology, we gain memory capacity at the age of three, and some of the most formative and important experiences of our lives (the way we are shaped) shape us between birth and 3.

Similarly, you would be surprised to find that a great number of homosexuals have experienced what could be discribed as a sexual/power/social altercation with some significance in their life. Now, that's a generalisation, and I'm not resting my opinion on it, but it must be concidered in your own testimony or experience. Also, I don't believe you can formulate a recipe for homosexuality on a "nurture" front. Each human is a complex working and the sexual balance within us can quickly become uneven with little significant event.

Lastly, if you disagree with me don't try and accuse me of homophobia. I'm simply pointing out the obvious.

 

[TwistedEllipses]

Surely puberty is more of a key period than birth?

 

[elemenetal150]

Homosexuality is a birth defect, pure and simple. Not saying that gay people are any less capable than normal straight people or bashing or anything like that, but studies show that gay men's brains react differently to male phermones than straight men's do. If you choose to be gay, then you're an idiot seeking attention and are more than likely just bi or dumb.

ummm you do realize that humans are not affected by pheromones right? yes we still have them, however they actually aren't used in sexual attraction anymore. we out grew them a long time ago

Nature. Us. Evolving.

I say that it's a combination of nature, nurture, and inherently unpredictable quantum effects, just like any other behavioral trait.

I had a longer post..But is disappeared.. sO here it is in a nutshell.

Your science fails.

Physical traits are inherited. Until scientists can blame your sexuality on a gene.. (Which I doubt at this point, seeing as all are mapped out)

That said, the only animals that you see whom have relationships with the same sex are primates and such.. Who have the capacity to think, to CHOOSE.

Umm... I seem to recall a picture of two male giraffes necking in my high school psych textbook... and a picture on Wikipedia of male penguins using a rock as a surrogate egg... and something about gay fireflies...

Giraffes can think can they not? Penguins can think can choose? (Like to sit on a damn egg for a long time, while the wife goes and gets some walrus)

again your logic that an animal that functions on instinct and has enough intelligence to solve basic problems in getting food and surviving in some way indicates reason is flawed. I don't know where you go to school be remind me to never send my children there, I would hate for them to grow up thinking things that are not true

LOL. What reason is flawed? I say animals can think, you say they are all instinct?

(Gay insects is new to me though, I didn't think instincts were that far advanced)

I said they can think but being able to choose some things implies reason which animals do not have. Intelligence and the ability to think is different. A male penguin staying with the egg after the female has laid them is ingrained in their survival instinct there is little choice, most male penguins will do this as the female often gets to choose the best mate and the ones that are flawed would no be chosen. A tiger choosing to eat a sick and dieing cow over a slow but small animal isn't a choose as much as the animal knowing at some primal level that the cow will provide more food. A monkey using a stick to get termites out of a mound shows intelligence but not reason. Reason implies choosing things like I will live by this code of conduct and not this code of conduct. Animals don't do this they survival and think and use what limited intelligence to do so. We has people choose to adapt the environment to us so that we don't have to adapt to it. We have reason and can understand that this is better then simply "choosing" which easy kill is worth the effort

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Call me a party pooper, but what scientific evidence is there for a gay gene or of homosexuality at all? Surely "nature" is a highly dubious was of phrasing "unexplained but I hope it's science". You can't use the non-sequiter that "it feels natural so it's science/biology". It feels natural to me to run at the sight of nazi skinheads with knives and chains, but this extends biologically to my having a working limbic system. What has imprinted that in my limbic system was nurture/experience that has leaked into memory. You cannot navigate around the fact that same sex couples cannot biologically recreate, which, via Darwinism/evolution renders homosexuals as either anomaly or a weaker type of human.

So, my answer: 95% nurture and the rest is quota for the unknown.

Of course, a homosexual will comment stating "I've been gay since birth", but the truth is, if you knew anything about basic/classical psychology, we gain memory capacity at the age of three, and some of the most formative and important experiences of our lives (the way we are shaped) shape us between birth and 3.

Similarly, you would be surprised to find that a great number of homosexuals have experienced what could be discribed as a sexual/power/social altercation with some significance in their life. Now, that's a generalisation, and I'm not resting my opinion on it, but it must be concidered in your own testimony or experience. Also, I don't believe you can formulate a recipe for homosexuality on a "nurture" front. Each human is a complex working and the sexual balance within us can quickly become uneven with little significant event.

Lastly, if you disagree with me don't try and accuse me of homophobia. I'm simply pointing out the obvious.

This guy said it, but in terms that make hella' lot more sense then if I had said it.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Homosexuality is a birth defect, pure and simple. Not saying that gay people are any less capable than normal straight people or bashing or anything like that, but studies show that gay men's brains react differently to male phermones than straight men's do. If you choose to be gay, then you're an idiot seeking attention and are more than likely just bi or dumb.

ummm you do realize that humans are not affected by pheromones right? yes we still have them, however they actually aren't used in sexual attraction anymore. we out grew them a long time ago

Nature. Us. Evolving.

I say that it's a combination of nature, nurture, and inherently unpredictable quantum effects, just like any other behavioral trait.

I had a longer post..But is disappeared.. sO here it is in a nutshell.

Your science fails.

Physical traits are inherited. Until scientists can blame your sexuality on a gene.. (Which I doubt at this point, seeing as all are mapped out)

That said, the only animals that you see whom have relationships with the same sex are primates and such.. Who have the capacity to think, to CHOOSE.

Umm... I seem to recall a picture of two male giraffes necking in my high school psych textbook... and a picture on Wikipedia of male penguins using a rock as a surrogate egg... and something about gay fireflies...

Giraffes can think can they not? Penguins can think can choose? (Like to sit on a damn egg for a long time, while the wife goes and gets some walrus)

again your logic that an animal that functions on instinct and has enough intelligence to solve basic problems in getting food and surviving in some way indicates reason is flawed. I don't know where you go to school be remind me to never send my children there, I would hate for them to grow up thinking things that are not true

LOL. What reason is flawed? I say animals can think, you say they are all instinct?

(Gay insects is new to me though, I didn't think instincts were that far advanced)

I said they can think but being able to choose some things implies reason which animals do not have. Intelligence and the ability to think is different. A male penguin staying with the egg after the female has laid them is ingrained in their survival instinct there is little choice, most male penguins will do this as the female often gets to choose the best mate and the ones that are flawed would no be chosen. A tiger choosing to eat a sick and dieing cow over a slow but small animal isn't a choose as much as the animal knowing at some primal level that the cow will provide more food. A monkey using a stick to get termites out of a mound shows intelligence but not reason. Reason implies choosing things like I will live by this code of conduct and not this code of conduct. Animals don't do this they survival and think and use what limited intelligence to do so. We has people choose to adapt the environment to us so that we don't have to adapt to it. We have reason and can understand that this is better then simply "choosing" which easy kill is worth the effort

My cat can reason. Dogs can reason. (Such as, you can train them to say.. Not jump on people.. Same way you can train people to live to a standard. (Again though, dogs and cats are not as advanced as us)

How about we agree to disagree? You will not change my view that animals are capable of thought and aren't autonomous.. (Be it how little thought it is, I am going to say they are capable for the most part)

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I don't believe in genetic destiny. I have seriously problems with people who presume that homosexuality = genetic destiny for many a-reason.

Firstly: Ethical problems ... will people start viewing homosexuality in the same light as actual diseases? It aint the 50's and 60's anymore .. homosexuality isn't a disease. By giving it biological parameters you will create a system where because you have a speicfic genetic makeup "there is a 90% chance of your son/daughter being gay"

Secondly: problems with morality: The presumption that people are gay at birth will be corrupting for children throughout their lives ... how would you like it if I told you at 8 years old "You have the good genetic makeup to be a plumber ... that is what you'll be best at .. and thus your social education will be geared to simply learning how to unplug toilets and fix underground piping"

You create a system which cheapens life experience, and reduces all the love and care/hate and abuse of childhood and there beyond to the value of sludge you find at the bottom of the garbage pile. A part of being human is figuring yourself out and not some guy in a white coat telling you you're 90% gay, so you'll never have a heterosexual relationship in your life!

Vice versa ... if you're gay and you find what you believe is your soul mate, because you feel like you could live your life with them ... being told you're only '50% gay' the amount of gay genes in your system means that this relationship will not work out well for you.

Thirdly: Scientific problems: Rules of attractions arent like a switch in your brain. Unless you're a monkey who flings shit everywhere, you're capable of reasoning, mediation, and intellectual pursuits.

I dont get a boner for every girl I meet, I dont get a boner for every guy I meet ... does that mean I'm Asexual? No. It means you're like 90% of us. Gay or straight.

Humans like specific aesthetics and qualities ... you could say. But does that mean if I LOOOOOOOOOOOVEEEEEE Red haired, girls with a mild Scottish accent ... despite being PERFECT in every way, shape and form ... PERFECT, and I mean PERFECT! In every conceivable notion of perfection in my mind I'm still going to retain enough control not to make a tent of my pants.

I could also settle for a non-redheaded, non-scottish girl.

I doubt .. by using the same argument against those that would claim a unopposeable connection between attraction and genetics ... that my genes ... given im half Asian, and distinctly removed anthropologically from Scotland ... would have connected in such a way that I'd only want to start a family with a beautiful, red haired Scottish girl.

Although this is an extreme example, but it is feasible ... that many people ONLY want a girl who is distinctly seperate from their local genepool ... which makes sense ... the bigger the genepool .. the greater chance of survival of the genepool.

But it is also not unfeasible to foresee ... an American from Arizona ... whose been there for 12 generations ... wishing to find a girl from Arizona whose also born and bred in Arizona.

Anyways, thats my rant ... as you've probably gathered .. I believe sexuality = genetics is garbage.

 

[lacktheknack]

I would personally say its a little bit of both, otherwise sheltered Christain kids wouldn't be gay, so Nature defintely has a big part to it.

It's called "teen rebellion". Even Christian kids do it, especially if they are overprotected.

That said, I would say it's mostly nurture, with a bit of nature mixed in.

 

[Alex_P]

You cannot navigate around the fact that same sex couples cannot biologically recreate, which, via Darwinism/evolution renders homosexuals as either anomaly or a weaker type of human.

You're making a mistake by assuming that the sharp "gay or straight" divide that Western culture has created has a definite basis in biology.

-- Alex