Poll: Is this feminism or just fucking madness? (Male and Female opinions appreciated)

[Rachel317]

Hey thar. Excellent topic! This kind of thing gets me quite angry, actually.

I'm a chick of 19 and, to be honest, HATE feminism and all it encompasses. I don't think either gender should be "on top", but I'm fully aware that this is a man's world, and that's not going to change. Males lead the way in business, music, sport, entertainments, and employ women so as to prove that they aren't sexist.

I HATE female bosses. Most of the time they can't run companies, because they hold grudges, go on little power trips, make life difficult for the other female staff. My life was made hell by one supervisor because she decided she didn't like me, but I never had any problems with another female supervisor who ran the place LIKE A MAN.

It's annoying that women want to be treated as equal WHEN IT SUITS THEM. Going out on dates, who's expected to pay? Who's screamed at to get the spider out of the bath? Women expect chivalry, yet they don't want to be treated as damsels in distress.

And the vagina is not the best sign of femininity, I agree with you there. Other symbols should be used, because the vagina purely symbolises the sexual oppression that women have been trying to shake for years. We've finally (thankfully) come out of that era, but women are always going to be slightly lower down than men. On average, men earn more than women. Why? Because sometimes they are just more competent at their jobs than women are, thus get moved up the business hierarchy that little bit faster.

I'm sorry to rant, I just think that feminism is a load of crap that takes up a lot of time and energy that women could be using instead to actually prove they can do their job better than a man can, rather than demanding that they should be equally treated without doing anything to show that they CAN be equal.

I'm not necessarily sexist towards my own gender, just very realistic.

 

[Alon Shechter]

I feel... I feel violated.

snip of awesome speech

I love you.

 

[Trifixion]

Probably designed by the same people who made the 'replica of Bella's impregnated womb' for the Twi-hards.

 

[ninja555]

Um, I really don't know what to say.

Probably designed by the same people who made the 'replica of Bella's impregnated womb' for the Twi-hards.

Wait, what?

 

[Terminal Blue]

There is actually a reason why this might be considered feminist, it's not just marketting shite.

Until very recently, guys did not have to be terribly self conscious about their man parts. Unless you had a very obvious abnormality the whole modern neurosis regarding size and shape was far less prominent, largely because women were not encouraged to question their partners genitals or their role in sexual performance. Only very recently has such a thing been possible.

The reverse though has never been true. Women have always agonized about their genitals, not least because for many years they were treated, literally, as a private shame and were absent from culture. Talking about things like periods or the shape/size variation of various parts was virtually impossible. This is why 1970s feminism made such a big thing of the vulva and vagina, to try and give them the kind of status and openness with which men were percieved (perhaps incorrectly, I'll leave that up to you) to treat their genitals. This kind of stuff probably isn't really marketed at our generation (big assumption inherent there, but I'm guessing most of you are under 40), but at people who were around during the second wave and remember this kind of mentality, or to their children who have been raised with this kind of awareness.

In short, it's a mistake to assume feminism is always about equality, and an even bigger mistake to assume equality is always about getting equal pay or material things. That varies massively depending on time period and who precisely you're talking about. There have been a lot of feminists over the last 100 years. Some people just wanted to be able to not feel ashamed of having a ****, and more power to them really.

Shock has always been a weapon in the feminist movement and subsequent related civil rights movements. The reason gay guys can (often, but not always) kiss in public is because at some point someone shocked a bunch of people by doing it. The freedom to expose people to things which will shock them is one of the few freedoms modern society affords us when it comes to prompting social change.

(25, queer male, gender studies student)

I'm not necessarily sexist towards my own gender, just very realistic.

You really should give your own sex more of a chance though..

Men have had thousands of years to set the rules of human culture and to creature a male culture of excellence while fostering a female culture of dependence and emotional weakness. Women are pretty much raised to be worse at the things you hold up as examples of male success.. that may not change overnight, but it will change faster if you foster it than if you just accept that that's the way it is and move on.

 

[havass]

WhatisthisIdon'teven?!

This just indicates bad taste in art as a whole. C'mon, who would buy that?

 

[Mordwyl]

Next time I go to a party I'm definitely wearing a phallic necklace. What?

 

[ShaqLevick]

Gee people it's just a vagina, there are literally billions of them everywhere. You know what's unnatural, a bunch of denim formed to cover what is honest and real. All of this negative fare comes from the fact that society has for far too long been under the thumb of the puritanical sect. Christian, Muslim, Hindu all have brainwashed the masses up to the point in recent world history where it has become the norm. To the point where now most people would scoff at the notion of a naturalist (or Nude beach), and yet all they have chosen is to spend their time without a disguise forced upon them by "the man"...

Wear your vagina's proud women! After all we all came from one, and as a heterosexual male I spend a great deal of time trying to get back into one.

 

[rokkolpo]

it has vagina's all over it...it must be feminism! >_>

 

[Nihilism_Is_Bliss]

Thanks for that link
I am going to make some birthdays veeeery uncomfortable.

 

[Hoplon]

That is a truly large collection of vagina shaped objects. I am vaguely impressed in a sort of "that was demented but determined effort, well done" sort of way

 

[HSIAMetalKing]

Showing off a vagina or a penis can and will negatively affect people.

I guess my ultimate point is that no, they won't. There's nothing bad about penises and/or vaginas, and the reason you think that there is something bad is part of the reason that people wear that jewelery. You've been conditioned to think that way, and depicting female genitals in jewelery is a very tasteful way of asserting the belief that people should embrace it as a positive symbol, rather than an icon of shame. I think you'd also find that acceptance of this type of jewelery will vary greatly from culture to culture, because all societies don't necessarily attach the same negative stigmas to those symbols.

It has nothing to do with genitalia being positive/negative, good/bad "symbols" and everything to do with divorcing it from its concept. Genitalia are used for sex and voiding, two of the most private aspects of a person's life. We are conditioned to be ashamed of having sex/going to the bathroom in public sight, thus we are ashamed of exposing our genitalia. Is it bad to think those two things should be done with privacy and modesty? I'd say no.

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I'm sure the designers of this jewelery would say that it has everything to do with genitalia being positive/negative, good/bad symbols. I'm certainly not advocating explicit acts of public defecation and/or intercourse, but from a feminist perspective by trying to keep the vagina locked away in the bedroom you're attempting to control that aspect of womanhood to suit your own understanding of what is or isn't "modest." These are vagina flowers and seashells, and there's nothing wrong with wearing them whatsoever.

 

[Wutaiflea]

I've always hated feminism. The fight for equality was so important, why is it now reduced to "look how great I am because I have a vagina"?

There is no dignity or respect which should be attributed just to having a specific sexual organ. Dignity and respect are earned through your actions and respect for others, including men.

The type of feminist who likes this sort of thing are the same type who naively think all the world's problems could be solved by having a matriarchal society.

 

[Xojins]

It's not feminist, it's just weird and I actually find it kind of disgusting; you don't see us guys putting penises or ball sacs on our belt buckles or have portraits depicting them.

 

[postblitz]

there are tons of falic stuff out there that don't necessarily make you think penis. why can't they just make vagina inspired stuff that doesn't resemble an actual vagina and sell that?

 

[HSIAMetalKing]

I've always hated feminism. The fight for equality was so important, why is it now reduced to "look how great I am because I have a vagina"?

There is no dignity or respect which should be attributed just to having a specific sexual organ. Dignity and respect are earned through your actions and respect for others, including men.

The type of feminist who likes this sort of thing are the same type who naively think all the world's problems could be solved by having a matriarchal society.

Why do people see these things and make the assumption that people wear them to advertise the fact that they have vaginas? That's not the point at all-- it's about replacing the public's negative, shameful image of female genitalia with something more flowery and positive.

I'd guess that the main reason you've always hated feminism is because you have no clue what it's about.

 

[Wutaiflea]

Why do people see these things and make the assumption that people wear them to advertise the fact that they have vaginas? That's not the point at all-- it's about replacing the public's negative, shameful image of female genitalia with something more flowery and positive.

I'd guess that the main reason you've always hated feminism is because you have no clue what it's about.

Why is it necessary to make a big deal out of it? I don't have a negative view of vaginas or think it's in any way shameful to have one, yet I don't feel the need to carry my tampons in a vagina bag.

Having a vagina should just be positive in itself. Why is it necessary to try and garnish the truth of the matter by wearing a vulva necklace? Really, disguising a vagina as a flower or a piece of jewellery is really only saying "my vagina isn't fine as it is- here is a way to make it look okay"

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

...?

 

[HSIAMetalKing]

Why do people see these things and make the assumption that people wear them to advertise the fact that they have vaginas? That's not the point at all-- it's about replacing the public's negative, shameful image of female genitalia with something more flowery and positive.

I'd guess that the main reason you've always hated feminism is because you have no clue what it's about.

Why is it necessary to make a big deal out of it? I don't have a negative view of vaginas or think it's in any way shameful to have one, yet I don't feel the need to carry my tampons in a vagina bag.

Having a vagina should just be positive in itself. Why is it necessary to try and garnish the truth of the matter by wearing a vulva necklace? Really, disguising a vagina as a flower or a piece of jewellery is really only saying "my vagina isn't fine as it is- here is a way to make it look okay"

Nobody buys one of these to suggest that their vagina is actually a gossamer-white flower. People who wear butterfly pendants don't think they're butterflies. And nobody is making a "big deal" out of anything-- it's jewelery, and vaginas are as natural as butterflies or flowers. There should be no reason for having this discussion, yet many people still perceive the vagina as something "disgusting" and shameful. You only have to look at this thread to realize this. That concept has been perpetuated throughout history, and whether you acknowledge it or not it has a negative impact on women. Wearing jewelery like this is one very tasteful, very unobtrusive way to bring the image of female genitalia into a more positive light.

 

[my_ledge_ends]

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I'm sure the designers of this jewelery would say that it has everything to do with genitalia being positive/negative, good/bad symbols. I'm certainly not advocating explicit acts of public defecation and/or intercourse, but from a feminist perspective by trying to keep the vagina locked away in the bedroom you're attempting to control that aspect of womanhood to suit your own understanding of what is or isn't "modest." These are vagina flowers and seashells, and there's nothing wrong with wearing them whatsoever.

Dude, I don't want to "control womanhood". If you'll actually read what I'm saying you'll notice I've been advocating keeping BOTH private (for more than just 'the bedroom').

Neither is it about what the creators intended. OBVIOUSLY they're shooting for some feminine empowerment angle. This is about WHY people are uneasy about being openly confronted by a penis or a vagina. For better or worse, society has conditioned us to be private with our genitalia because the two acts associated with our genitalia are also private. That isn't a hard concept, and neither is it a sexist concept. I don't want to keep women in the bedroom, or the kitchen, or whichever room modern patriarchy is shooting for these days. But neither do I want to see some radical feminist waving her wahoo in my face because I'm "too sexist to accept the reality of the vagina" without a clitoris pendant.

By the way, as a thought experiment, let's bring the vagina out of the bedroom and the bathroom. What's it do now? Waggle its eyebrows at us? I'd be inclined to believe feminists have better things to do, like, say, work on that whole glass ceiling thing.