Om Nom Nom said:
You're doing it wrong, HTFU [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q].
Pointless comment is pointless...
Om Nom Nom said:
To flesh out the post, though; the point you bring up that older players will always be better is utterly wrong (e).
To explain this, lets put a six-month-old player and a seven-year-old player against each other in the same ship, same fittings.
Now, lets say the six-month-old player has specialized completely in that ship. However, the seven-year-old player hasn't; they can fly the biggest ships in the game with the best but never got around to getting the most out of smaller ships. In this example, the newer player would walk all over their elder.
Your example is completely flawed. While it's
technically correct, the basic assumption is wrong. When will you EVER see an enemy (at a time when you're not out being lame i.e. ganking newbs yourself) who is flying a ship he isn't good at? I sure as hell didn't. And even in the smaller ships, he's probably still got the skills to whip you, because a lot of them (esp. the invuln skills, repair skills, shield skils etc.) carry across the various ships. Also, the 7 year player will be flying T2+ versions of most ships, while unless you've got a corp sponsoring you, new players will not be.
Om Nom Nom said:
Another example; you're a brand new player, roaming around for some action in your frigate; lets assume a Rifter with all basic equipment. You come across a two year old player in a battleship (lets say a Rokh) killing NPCs. You warp scramble him, and fall into a close orbit. As he sends his five medium combat drones at you, you destroy them, and laugh as his weapons miss you as you are too close, moving too quick for him to hit you. You proceed to give his Rokh (which is many times more expensive than a Rifter) a slow and agonizing death.
Again, you've used a completely invalid example. You've worked on the assumption that the brand newbie is an experienced player (and knows what to fit and how to fly) and the long-term player is an idiot. Sure, the situation can happen, but it is going to be RARE!
1) You will not find ANY non-brain-dead character in a Rokh, flying around a low/no-sec area without at least 1 warp stabiliser.
2) Assuming you can kill his drones, and he's got no weapons that can touch you (and if he's playing solo, be probably DOES have a few smaller guns/missiles), the chance of you being able to break his tank in a T1 rifter are ZERO. The only way you'll down him, is if you warp scram him successfully, then call in other players in bigger ships to kill him before he calls in friends to kill you.
Om Nom Nom said:
(a) As for your comment on how you have to work with spreadsheets? Sure, some people like that; market trading is a very lucrative profession (and industry to a lesser degree). I don't see how it applies to ship fitting though, as there are several tools you can use that do all the work for you - or if you're terminally lazy, you could just google it and find something that does what you want in a minute or two.
And then you'll spend your time:
a) scanning the marketplace for the items you want,
b) scanning the target list for your next kill,
c) scanning Local for anybody that's out to kill you,
d) scanning the 'roids to pop,
e) etc.
Basically just poring through various lists. Sure, they're not spreadsheets, but they're only one step down. About the only way you can avoid this is to PvP with an organised fleet... and you can't assume that's what everybody wants to do.
Om Nom Nom said:
(b) Grinding, sure, if you don't apply some measure of intelligence to it. Last night, I made several billion in game currency in 15 minutes. That will last me a good month or two of PvP in any non-faction/non-capital ships of my choice (or every single non-capital skill currently in the game). You don't need to grind to "level up" either, as your skills grow over time - you don't even need to log in if you don't feel like it.
And you did it how, exactly? In Eve, it takes money to make money. You can get it several ways, but in each case it takes money to make money:
a) completing missions/job boards,
b) ratting,
c) market trading,
d) mining,
e) ganking newbs and hoping one of 'em is carrying something nice.
Unless you have a bunch of skills and have the cash to upgrade to a BC/BS, you aren't going to be doing T3+ missions. Ditto for ratting at decent return rates. You gotta have the cash to BUY stuff on the market before you can resell it. And so on.
Again, unless you have a corp sponsoring all your needs, a new player CANNOT make that kind of money.
Om Nom Nom said:
(c) Yes, people want to blow you up. The game would be very boring otherwise. Blow the bastards up right back; you don't need fancy gear to do it, use your head.
1. You've assumed that EVERYBODY wants to be exposed to perma-loss risks the entire time in game. This is wrong.
2. You've assumed that EVERYBODY enjoys PvP. Also wrong.
3. You've completely neglected the fact that the vast majority of Eve-players will avoid a fight unless they are CERTAIN of winning.
Om Nom Nom said:
(d) Yes, screwing other people over is a core element of the game. You paid the price of not looking up what you were doing, and should have learned from the experience. You didn't, and expected a GM to fix your mistake - rightly, they laughed in your face.
Here's a thought to C&D; ask them what you did wrong instead of crying about it. You will find most people will explain what happened, some might even give you some tips on how to avoid it in future and/or (if you're lucky) give something back for being a good sport.
1. Don't make assumptions about me. It's insulting. I didn't EVER get screwed over in Eve because I'd read all about it... Especially all the stories about corp-mates/guildies screwing over their 'friends'. So I never trusted ANYBODY. And you know what? That doesn't make for an enjoyable game experience.
2. You've assumed that EVERYBODY has as much time as required to pour over the forums hunting down every trick, and every protection and applying them all the time. Incorrect. Again.
3. You've assumed that EVERYBODY likes games where they can risk everything all the time. Risk losing their hard-earned cash/items/etc. with a single unlucky break or a single wrong move. Basically, you've assumed that everybody is a hard-core no-lifer. Incorrect.
Om Nom Nom said:
(f) The ZP review shows what happens when you chose to go against the grain of the game, and try to go it alone (hint: join a corp; if that really seems so repulsive to you, you're in the wrong game - heck, the wrong genre even). Also, you should know that Yhatzee always rats on games, even extremely popular ones, that he doesn't like. It's a real breath of air from the usual pandering reviewers.
Yes. I quote him KNOWING that his reputation is for tearing on games. But the points he makes are ones that I mostly agree with. Which is why I referenced him.
In Summary
Look... it's great that you've found a game that really works for you, and it's great that you're supporting it and getting the word out. It's always nice when smaller games companies can make a success of things.
But Eve is, for better or worse, a niche game for a very specific type of gamer. You're not doing anybody any favours by ignoring the negative sides of Eve, and getting people who don't play Eve-style involved. By that, I mean that anybody who primarily plays MMO's:
- for social reasons;
- casually;
- non-PvP'ers;
- to chillout with a couple of beers; etc.
These kinds of gamers (in general - naturally, there are exceptions) will usually hate Eve. Why get them involved, and generate more bad press?
