Poll: Israel: Is it's existence justified?

[ElephantGuts]

LOL WUT

LOL REPORTED.

 

[sam13lfc]

I'm not looking for a thread-locking fight, but I must say I am completely against it. It was very wrong, in my opinion, to basically kick out the people who were ALREADY living there. No one deserves the space to live in more than anyone else so it was wrong to take it.

Except they didn't actually kick anyone out when they formed Israel, all they decided was who was going to head up the government. If Israel's neighbours hadn't attacked there wouldn't have been a refugee problem, and they would have started with the 2 state solution that people now seek, except of course Israel would have been smaller.

Your argument does however support leaving the current lines where they are, after all, 2 generations of people have grown up in the current cities/towns so as you put it, its wrong to kick them out.

Good points

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Well the land was technically never there's in the first place
i think it should not have been created although the jews did need somewhere to go

there's a famous saying that actually is said in many religions

"The Jews are cursed to never have a land of their own"

Not being oiffensive or rascist or trying to say that jews are bad but simply stating something that seems very intresting

Overall i think we should come down to one thing , Were they there first ?

And the US is technically on stolen land from the Natives, and you know what they did? They slaughtered every last one of them! Hell, I have less of a right to live on this land than Israelis because they're continually fighting for it right now!

But I really don't want to delve into this topic, it'll just turn out ugly. I will agree however that Israel was not exactly established in the best of places in the world...

/agree
No one has the right to live where they are now. Every land has been taken over by someone else by this time. Australia is a good example, we fucked over the people who lived here before us. So we don't deserve to live here either.

It's okay now Rudd said sorry

Lol, but that doesn't mean we should be here though...

Sorry was a failed attempt at humor

No, it worked... But maybe not with the major bang you expected.

 

[Oneirius]

No.

It's just a dot on the map that makes everyone irate for no justifiable reason. They went in there with one of their stupid "god" reasons and started to encroach on other nations' territories. People revolt. The hypocrite government calls them terrorists.

HOW THE FUCK do you justify THAT?

Oh god again? Go to hell, there is no such thing. And FYI, I have met Jews in Canada that are closer to their religion than those in Israel. I don't see YOU wearing the traditional outfits, nor having as many kids as them, as I recall the Torah asks of you.

The people that thought it was a good idea to "reclaim" the territory of Israel are a bunch of self-righteous morons. But I must commend them for orchestrating yet another of the scams of global proportions perpetrated by religions.

You know, religion can indeed be moronic at times. Judaism is perheps the most moronic of them all.
But even if you don't take the bible as a proof of anything(That's a good idea, BTW), you can't deny that the jews have been here befor the Palestinians. That's an historical fact, not some religious mumble. So the issue of "Who was there first?" is not relevant.
Now I admit that at the time the country of Israel was officialy created, Palestinians lived here. This is something that can actually be argued about.
Also about the peupose of religion. That would be an interesting idea for a thread.

 

[SeleneRose]

this thread was flawed from the start
New countries are created through wars
Thier existance is as valid as any other country's
Simply because of this - They control the land, they live there, their livelyhood is there, thier people are there, its a freaking country.

 

[Arcticflame]

Actually Israel tends to be held to a higher standard than any other country. If there were daily rocket attacks from Canada to the US how long do you think it would be before the situation went military? It sure wouldn't be 2 years.

There is nothing wrong with critisizing Israel, I mean if you've read the Israeli press you know Israelis are their own harshest critics much of the time.

You are wrong to say this is about "their own religion". That actually is a tad racist as it assumes everyone within a religion thinks the same, which they do not. Israel, oddly, is a secular state in law and fact for most matters. With the exception of refusing to give up Jeruselum again, land issues are strategic/political question.

You are also VERY uninformed if you don't think they have given land back. They gave back pretty much everything they got from Egypt years ago. Recently they handed back big chunks of land to the PA, and that meant evicting by military force Israeli settlers.

Canada isn't expanding into america. That's a moot point. Israel is as much in the wrong as the palestineans. That's why they are held to that standard.

As for israeli's being their own harshest critic... well probably, because nobody else seems to be able to criticise israel without people getting all puffed up.

The expansions of israel are fact, I'm assuming we agree there. And why are they expanding with these "settlements?" Because of their own zionist designs. Israel had used the excuse it was to put a buffer of defense up, but that has proven extremely shakey as the expansions haven't halted anywhere close to a "buffer". And besides, it's a buffer of people, not military.
If that isn't the justification, then it's just land grabbing. Which is even worse. To say I am racist for saying this, is rather odd. As it isn't basing my belief because of their race. It's basing my belief based upon what the country was formed upon, and many of the occurences and evidence presented to me from many sources, and the major evidence of what the government has said themselves.
I don't even see where race comes into it.

Besides, even if I did say anything about race, in one of my earlier posts I did infact state that it's civilians that get the short end of the stick in these conflicts. Implying I am in fact talking about the government of israel.

And as for the giving land back. I have already stated that israel giving land back doesn't nullify the expansions which are still ongoing.

It's like me putting 3 bricks on your head, taking one off and then putting 2 more on. It doesn't excuse why I happen to be putting bricks on your head.

this thread was flawed from the start
New countries are created through wars
Thier existance is as valid as any other country's
Simply because of this - They control the land, they live there, their livelyhood is there, thier people are there, its a freaking country.

If I punch you in the face out of the blue, the punch happened. It's a freaking punch.
But was the punch justified?

That's what this thread is about. Not whether or not the country exists.

 

[Ushario]

this thread was flawed from the start
New countries are created through wars
Thier existance is as valid as any other country's
Simply because of this - They control the land, they live there, their livelyhood is there, thier people are there, its a freaking country.

That hardly justifies their actions. Nor does it justify Israel screaming that people are racist every time they are criticised.

I truly believe that the 'terrorists' are actually freedom fighters, against the oppresion of the Zionist Jews. These people did not deserve to have the Jews take their land and their homes because the Jews were massacred in the Holocaust. They fight for what is rightfully theirs.

Israel has no 'right' to exist, and it will have to continue to fight for its existence. I can only wish luck to those who fight for what is right, and that is not the existence of a racist regime such as Israel.

 

[SeleneRose]

comparing a punch to a country is hardly a good metaphor
You're saying an entire group of people, thier politics, thier homes, thier lives, are unjustified because they happen to piss off the other countries around them?
You're the new kid in town, you look different from everyone else. You go to a party, serveral people are constantly threating you, is your attendance at the party any less justified?
I can see where some people think its not - the whole invasion part - but still, this is a group of people, they have thier right to live where they want, free from persecution.

 

[Ushario]

comparing a punch to a country is hardly a good metaphor
You're saying an entire group of people, thier politics, thier homes, thier lives, are unjustified because they happen to piss off the other countries around them?
You're the new kid in town, you look different from everyone else. You go to a party, serveral people are constantly threating you, is your attendance at the party any less justified?
I can see where some people think its not - the whole invasion part - but still, this is a group of people, they have thier right to live where they want, free from persecution.

If you werent invited you can be sure as hell I'd punch you at my party. Sure you say that the Jews should be able to live free from persecution, but what about the Palestinians?

 

[SeleneRose]

I believe they should as well
I don't believe either group should be focusing on wiping eachother out
Doesn't make either countries existance less valid
conflicts wil always happen

 

[3LANCER]

I'm just glad they created wonderful psychedelic trance sounds, so I voted YES

 

[Oneirius]

They, too, need to live peacefully without persecution. Israel(as in, the land, not the country) is big enugh for both groups. I mean, the Negev. Just the Negev is big enugh. And it's not like we can't turn that desert wasteland into a fairly fertile, lush paradise. We did this a few times before.
Now we just need to explain this to the leaders of both peoples, because I doubt that anyone else, on both sides of the conflict, enjoys this pointless war.

 

[Ushario]

I believe they should as well
I don't believe either group should be focusing on wiping eachother out
Doesn't make either countries existance less valid
conflicts wil always happen

Your semi-pacifist replies are useless. You don't state any resolutions, or even really state any particular beliefs or knowledge on the matter.

Its like watching someone try to be involved in a heated conversation when they have apathy for the subject.

 

[Shady Shades]

I can't really say if giving them their own country was entirely intelligent.

As soon as they established themselve that pretty much pissed off the neighbors and got attacked. Then they felt threatened and started striking back. No one can really deny that the whole situation as it is today wouldn't even be what it is if there was no Israel. I'm not saying No jews i'm not Anti-Semetic...... But if that country wasn't established all that instability wouldn't be. things would be a lot quieter over there.

 

[bad rider]

The principle, give the jews a homeland was good, the specific reigion (Israel) was a bad idea.

 

[Music Mole]

Well the land was technically never there's in the first place
i think it should not have been created although the jews did need somewhere to go

there's a famous saying that actually is said in many religions

"The Jews are cursed to never have a land of their own"

Not being oiffensive or rascist or trying to say that jews are bad but simply stating something that seems very intresting

Overall i think we should come down to one thing , Were they there first ?

And the US is technically on stolen land from the Natives, and you know what they did? They slaughtered every last one of them! Hell, I have less of a right to live on this land than Israelis because they're continually fighting for it right now!

But I really don't want to delve into this topic, it'll just turn out ugly. I will agree however that Israel was not exactly established in the best of places in the world...

/agree
No one has the right to live where they are now. Every land has been taken over by someone else by this time. Australia is a good example, we fucked over the people who lived here before us. So we don't deserve to live here either.

It's okay now Rudd said sorry

Lol, but that doesn't mean we should be here though...

Sorry was a failed attempt at humor

No, it worked... But maybe not with the major bang you expected.

There is always the next forum, too spread my terrible comedy.

 

[War Chief Will]

Empires rise and fall. All countries disappear and are created throughout history. Look at Germany just before W.W.2 . They thought they would last for a thousand years but were enevitably beaten and their countries they took were dismantled.

All i am saying is that one day...a thousand years from now...Most countries will be non-exsistent and would have formed into smaller or bigger countries. So yes Israel's exsistence is justifiable.