Poll: Israel: Is it's existence justified?

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L_Lawliet

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A man is given permission to own a patch of land. It's not a big one, but he's just fine with it. The neighbors hate the man for his beliefs and start harassing him, they TP his house, break his windows and threaten him and his family. Man A does all he can to ignore his neighbors, but eventually retaliates, but only if the neighbors go on his lawn.

City council holds a meeting, should the man be kicked out of the neighborhood because he is causing the neighbors to act violently? Is this his fault?

Comment on this analogy as you see fit. I don't think the holocaust has ANYTHING to do with why Israel deserves to exist, but the Israelis (Everyone who lives there, not just Jews) deserve to keep their home. However, I am bias being Jewish myself. Still, feel free to comment.
 

Oopsie

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Oneirius said:
If and when I will have children, than yes, I would not want them to grow up in fear. I would want them to have the tolerance and love that we don't have, and that our parants didn't have. Every generation wants this. But if the war goes long enugh for me to see my children drawn into it, than I will try not to hide the truth from them.
When the day comes, I will join the IDF. When the day comes, I want my children to join the IDF. Peace is our ultimate goal, but until there is peace, we will not sit here doing nothing while border towns are being destroyed by rockets or soldiers are being held captives by god knows who.
And yes, if it was possible for the two peoples to live together in Israel and cooperate, it would be the best end of the story. In the meanwhile both sides, or at least the people who actually make a differance, are two stubborn and grounded in their belives to give up a grain of sand to the other side. It's childish and stuiped. "If we can't have it, than nobody should!". We are wasting precious, precious resources, effort and lives on a stuiped war whose cause nobody really knows.
Let's just hope that our children will grow to have the wisdom that we lack.
Although I think you understand I cannot fully support your cause I can only applaud your level-headdedness.
Godspeed.
 

Harbinger_

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Should Isreal have been created? I don't understand whats so bad about having more land more over its the people in control and the decisions that they make. Its not the land itself that is to blame. I mean surely it doesn't enjoy getting trod upon by all it's inhabitants but then against honestly what lands do? Except maybe those weird S&M ones... Personally I'm not on anyone's side because of the following:

1: I don't know all sides of the issue.
2: I can't be bothered to research this issue.
3: I really hate humanity as a whole.
 

Jumplion

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perryman93 said:
Mardy said:
Yes, yes I do think so. After all palestinian terrorists started attacking Israel and then everyone blames Israel. Yes I know it might not always have been the palesinians.
Also they made a badass tank. And they won the Six Day War.
Israel belonged to palestinians first, britain and america set up the state of israel in the 50s because we felt sorry for what happened during the holocaust !! the palestinians only believe that they are fighting for the freedom to be ruled by someone of their own religion! personally i am on the palestinians side! and no i am NOT anti semitic i just feel that the palestinians have a stronger, and historically older claim to the territory!!!
What "claim"? The Native Americans had "claim" to their land, and look how that turned out!

It's useless saying "This is mine!" "Well I don't see your name on it!" "but I had it first!" debate because that's not how war, or history for that matter, works at all.

So what, you had it first? Well to bad, it's mine now! Either deal with it or try to take it back, and that's exactly what the Palestinians are doing right now. I'm sick of people saying that because they were here first, it means that it's theirs, when that's never been the case in any land acquirement in the history of the whole world.
 

Captain_Caveman

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ravensheart18 said:
Captain_Caveman said:
OT though, you may want to inform Whitney Houston & Bobby Brown about no way in except being born. LOL
I didn't say that. I said "discourages
Captain_Caveman said:
ravensheart18 said:
Captain_Caveman said:
ravensheart18 said:
Actually its a different thing entirely. Being Jewish is an inheritted thing, its more than religion. We are an identifiable tribe or people, we just lost our homeland a couple thousand years ago. We are unique in that we are pretty much the only displaced people that didn't disappear.
Well the majority of people who identify themselves as Jewish dont really practice Judaism anymore. Many, if not the majority, are also half or mostly of European or Russian decent because of the exodus.

So Jews are less a people and more a religion now, imho.
No, that's not correct. What it is to be jewish goes far beyond religion. That's one reason why we are pretty much the only religion that talks people out of joining, and at the same time if your great grandmother was jewish you are, even if neither you nor your parents or grandparents praticed (or even if you practiced another religion). We have elements of both religion and tribe in what we are.


Captain_Caveman said:
I've studied a lot of religions, mainly because the private school my parents forced me to go to made it mandatory. I don't see a whole lot great about any of them. Sure some seem like they'd be healthier for society than others (islam is kinda scary imo, no offense to any muslims). But this whole "ancient people" or "chosen people" thing seems like it's more of an ego trip than anything. imho. We're all the same, it's only the way we perceive.
I suspect that your religious teaching about judism did not come from a jewish source. The ancient people is just a fact, the culture can be traced back a long time. It doesn't make it better or worse, just old.

The chosen people really isn't an ego thing if by that you think it means we believe we are superior. That's not it. Unlike many religions we believe that god loves most people and that those without religion or of differing religions can be as beloved of god just as we can. In fact, we think less is demanded of them than is demanded of us. What we were chosen for was to carry a particular burden, and it has at times been a very heavy one. That burden includes a message, a message that was adopted at least in part by the Christians, the Baha'i, and some others. Many of our messages are imbedded in current "western" law and thinking. We continue to carry the burden of the messages that we think lead to holiness.

There are those in every religion (or non religion for that matter) who are elitist about it, but that isn't what is meant by "chosen" if you ask most Jewish scholars.
It wasn't religious teaching, the classes were history classes basically. The school had no affiliation, the teacher was agnostic. It covered everything from Paganism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Shinto, Taoism/Confucianism, & Hinduism.

I understand what you're saying but it really doesn't change anything I've said. It's still all in your head, imho. Perception. Every "people" have been around just as long on this planet. And laws of justice have as well. The only real diff is the distribution of written lists, instead of assumed morality.

OT though, you may want to inform Whitney Houston & Bobby Brown about no way in except being born. LOL
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said "no way in" I said discourages. A convert is actively (on at least three occassions) challenged not to convert. It is pointed out to them that there is no need to become Jewish to be a good and holy person. Anywhere from 1-7 years of study is required, during which time they must live a jewish life. They must go before a religious court and convince 3 judges of their intent. There is a way in, its just not as easy and its never encouraged.
Ok, i guess you didn't get that i was joking. :p
 

smargh1015

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L.B. Jeffries said:
It's hard to argue they have a right to the place when an entire country was already there when they moved in, took over the government, and then waged war on everyone around them. Being f***ed over does not mean you can spread the hate around by doing it to other people.
Excuse me be i can noy begin to tell you how wrong you are. Israel was made by the UN after WW2 so the Jews would have a safe homeland. But it was also the Muslims homeland and THEY got angry so THEY declared war and several times in vein.
 

ElephantGuts

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Now, the most valid point that people can make against Israel is that they had no right to take over Palestine and kick out the Arabs. I'm not saying that's a complete lie, but things didn't quite happen like that. Explanation:

First of all, when the massive post-World War 2 immigration of Jews to Palestine began, there was no "country" of Palestine. In fact, there never was a country of Palestine. Palestine was controlled by Great Britain, which promised portions of Palestine to the Jews. So no one took anything over from anybody. There was both space and resources available for the Jews and Arabs. Sure, things might have been a bit tight, but for quite a while Jews had been planting trees and such to make unarable land arable and then farming it; so it's not like they were just leech off the Arabs.

Also, the Jews didn't "kick out" the Arabs. Any time that the Jews made plans to settle in Palestine, they made room for the Arabs and allowed them to continue living where they were. Most of the Arabs who ended up fleeing Israel did so at the start of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, thinking that after the various aggressor Arab countries kicked out the Jews, they would return to their homes. True, the refugees would protest this, but it's almost undeniable that atleast many of them left under these conditions. I'm not saying that all of them left willingly; undoubtedly some Arabs were forced from their homes by Israeli soldiers during the various conflicts and fighting. But it was never a plan or goal of the Israeli government to kick out the Arabs, and it was never done on a large scale.

The mention of conflict brings up another point. From the very first days of Jews negotiating with Britain to establish a state of Israel, the Arabs stubbornly refused to let them in. They would rather take up arms against the Jews than live peacefully with them, and did just that. The Arabs started the violence, often launching guerilla attacks on civilians, and then complained when the settlers fought back. No Jews used violence as a tactic to take over land; there was no "invasion" of any sort.

CONCLUSION: The Jews did not invade, conquer, steal, or unfairly take land from the Palestinian Arabs. They had no country or government of their own, and were as subject to the rule of Great Britain as were the immigrating Jews. If the British decided to give Jews a place to live then they needed to deal with that. They were given a fairly fair deal; but instead of peacefully accepting it they turned to unjustified violence which continues to this day. I'm not saying things were completely fair for the Arabs; an influx of foreign settlers is never fun. But things weren't fair for the Jews either, and the Arabs could have handled things a lot better than they did.

Also:

L.B. Jeffries said:
It's hard to argue they have a right to the place when an entire country was already there when they moved in, took over the government, and then waged war on everyone around them. Being f***ed over does not mean you can spread the hate around by doing it to other people.
That would be hard to argue. Thank God that's not the sort of situation we're talking about. I'm not completely sure what you were getting at, but I'd appreciate it if you would keep your posts on-topic to the discussion at hand.

And this is why:

CaptainEgypt said:
L.B. Jeffries said:
It's hard to argue they have a right to the place when an entire country was already there when they moved in, took over the government, and then waged war on everyone around them. Being f***ed over does not mean you can spread the hate around by doing it to other people.
This. The Israeli military and government are terrorists just the same as Hamas.
See? This poor fellow thought that you were talking about Israel, and was mislead to the conclusion that "The Israeli military and government are terrorists just the same as Hamas."

And anyone with any idea of what they were talking about would know that that's not true.
 

DerpyDerpyDerp

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My opinion is that no, they didn't have a claim to the land. However, it is there now and it isn't going anywhere so both sides need to cooperate a little.
 

ElephantGuts

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Oneirius said:
Hi. The name is Leonard. I am almost 16, and sometimes I peek around this forum while waiting for Zero Punctuation to load. You have a wonderful community. Hope I will get absorbed into it quickly.

So, anyway: I live in Raanana, Israel. It's a beutiful city. Small, hardly a city by most standards, and most people are old and creepily religious. But it is a very calm and beutiful place, too. The swamp that was once here is all but gone. Our city has amazing gardens and parks, the education is considerd very good and there is almost no crime.
I lived in Raanana my whole life. In fact, so did my father and grandfather(His father came from Russia). So I am an Israeli in blood and in heart. That makes me the worst or the best guy to ask about this topic, depending on who you ask. By the way, today is Yom Ha'Shoa in Israel. (If you read this post, please send a short prayer to all the Holocaust victims. They deserve it). Next week is Yom Ha'Zikaron.(In which we remember the victims of the wars that plagued Israel since it's birth), so I decided to join this forum so that I can at least add something to this discussion that troubles us all. It is the right thing to do, I belive.

So you are asking what is my opinion about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? I will be very honest with you: I think that nobody here, not me, not you, not even most politicians in or out of Israel know enugh about the subject to have an actual opinion. I have had the pleasure and the honour to meet a man who devoted his whole lift to the study of this very topic, yet even he said that he would never be able to form a good opinion because humans as a species, no matter how they hide it, are at their core biased, self serving assholes who only care about themselves and themselves and themselves.
He is very right. I live this conflict ever since I was born. My girlfriend, a girl that I cared about very much, was killed by a Palestinian rocket* a few weeks ago. My older brother, a man who I care very much about Will never be the same after the horrors he saw during his service. Yet I force myself not to hate the Pelestinians, because I know this hate will not be justified and will make me as bad as all the others around here who know nothing about the conflict and simply shout to be heard.

I am eqully disgusted and filled with pity when I see a six years old Palestinian boy in the news or the six years old orthodox boy from next door shouting that the [other side] are all evil bloodthirsty warmongering monsters and that they will gladly sacrafice their lives to destroy [other side].

I DO NOT think that the settlers\colonists\however they are called in your place(We call tham Mitnachalim) have any right to set up their rickity villages on Palestinian territory(Israel is doing it's best to demolish those, but they are zealous and fanatic and just settle somwhere else). I also DO NOT think Palestinians have the right to kidnap soldiers or send suicide bombers into shopping malls or bus stations befor they tried peacful negotiations(And don't tell me they did. When the solution was suggested that would give the two peoples an equal shar of the land(I actually think they were promised more but I don't remember clearly and I don't want to say anythink dangerous), the jews agreed, but the arabs just started making threats that eventually escalated into a very bloody war whose peorpse was TOTAL ANNIHILATION of the jewish people).

I do not think Tzahal(You call tham the IDF, right?) soldiers have the right to use innocent bystanders as meat shields or targate practice(They say they "suspected they might be carrying weapons", but I don't belive tham. They were just bloodthirsty fanatics no better than the suicide bombers and I am happy they were severely punished. I also do not think the Palestinians have any right to attack civialians all day with kasams(My aforementioned girlfriend had to the shelter ten times a day a few years ago). Note that I do not pity the Palestinian civilians killed in bombing runs: I don't know if you heard about it, but Tzahal makes it a practice of alwayes sending warning to Palestinian leaders befor performing one. The fact that the civilians are not evacuated immediately proves either that said leaders are stuiped, powerless, or twisted to the point of sacraficing dozens of innocent Palestinians for the sake of making Israel look bad. Also note that we Tzahal makes utmost effort to avoid collateral damage when bombing, even if it makes their job a thousands times more difficult. Unlike, say, one country whose name I can't quite recall who naplamed the shit out of another country some forty years ago. They also used chemical weapons, but that is another thing already.

I do not think we have a right to own Jerusalem. I do not think anybody has. If it was up to me I would say the place needs to be blown the fuck up to solve many many many problems. But it is not up to me.

If there was a peacful resolution available it would be great. But their is not. Both sides are to stubborn and both hate the other side so unconditionally that this would likely never happen.

Israel alwayes was, is now, and will likely alwayes be at a state of war. It is a shame, but we simply have no other place to go. This is our home. This is where we were born. This is the land of our ancestors and this of of our children. The arabics can, of course, say the exact same and nobody would ever be able to prove he is right.

You must understand: Today is the day where our whole country goes silent in remembrance of the Holocaust. Today is the day where we are most aware of the fact that Israel is our only home, our only sanctuary in a world that hates us, whether there is a reason or ther is not. And we will protect this haven no matter what, because we truly can't go anywhere else.
We jews went through hell. Some of us, less than a half of us, survived, albeit with scars to their very souls. They came here following dreams and prophecies thousands of years old, expacting to find peace. They never did. Critisize Israel at your leisure, but please, don't deny us the only thing we have.

P.S. My younger brother, four years old asked me just a minuete ago what I was doing. I said that I am telling people in far away lands that Israel is not evil. He was quite and then he said "Please tell tham that we are not evil. We do not like to kill. It is sad.". How very touching.

P.P.S. Don't listen to what the media tells you. The media is alwayes biased. This war saw the burned corpses of Israeli and Palestinian babies. Most networks will only show you one, quietly forgetting about the other). It is the way media works. It is a shame.

* She lived in Sderot. Not a good idea at all. By the way, my ex girlfriend died of brain cancer, and the one before her in a car accident. Someome up there wants me to stay alone, I susspose.



Good evening, everyone.
Leonard
I agree with everyone else who said it that this was touching. It really shows a simple, truthful point of view on the conflict. Thank you.


magicmonkeybars said:
Kukul said:
It just as justified as giving Africa to Basques. What? They were there at some point in history.

The truth is Jews took a land they had no claims for for the last 2000 years, and was not even originally theirs (read the Bible and see how they describe themselves slaughtering the rival tribes) by force and are realizing a consequent program to exterminate the Palestinians. I don't support suicide bombings, but these people are literally fighting for survival and it's understandable they are being desperate. To spice things up the new Israeli foreign Avigord Lieberman is an openly racist nazi.

And the funny thing about the "But they had nowhere to go!" argument is that there are lots and lots of Jews living in prosperity and peace in Europe and US while Palestinians starve in refugee camps.

The existance of Israel has nothing to do with justice.
israel is just one giant concentration camp, we could have made a jewish state in France or Germany but instead we put them in the one place arabs would fight to the death to regain...
These two posts made me laugh. Thank you two as well.
 

Perryman93

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ravensheart18 said:
perryman93 said:
Mardy said:
Yes, yes I do think so. After all palestinian terrorists started attacking Israel and then everyone blames Israel. Yes I know it might not always have been the palesinians.
Also they made a badass tank. And they won the Six Day War.
Israel belonged to palestinians first, britain and america set up the state of israel in the 50s because we felt sorry for what happened during the holocaust !! the palestinians only believe that they are fighting for the freedom to be ruled by someone of their own religion! personally i am on the palestinians side! and no i am NOT anti semitic i just feel that the palestinians have a stronger, and historically older claim to the territory!!!
I actually think they made a mistake in setting up Israel the way they did, but it never belonged to a group called palestinians...
your right there i am technically wrong, but it did belong to a group of palestinian origin, but i couldn't remember their exact name!! so yes you are right!
 

Jumplion

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Oneirius said:
Hi. The name is Leonard. I am almost 16, and sometimes I peek around this forum while waiting for Zero Punctuation to load. You have a wonderful community. Hope I will get absorbed into it quickly.

So, anyway: I live in Raanana, Israel. It's a beutiful city. Small, hardly a city by most standards, and most people are old and creepily religious. But it is a very calm and beutiful place, too. The swamp that was once here is all but gone. Our city has amazing gardens and parks, the education is considerd very good and there is almost no crime.
I lived in Raanana my whole life. In fact, so did my father and grandfather(His father came from Russia). So I am an Israeli in blood and in heart. That makes me the worst or the best guy to ask about this topic, depending on who you ask. By the way, today is Yom Ha'Shoa in Israel. (If you read this post, please send a short prayer to all the Holocaust victims. They deserve it). Next week is Yom Ha'Zikaron.(In which we remember the victims of the wars that plagued Israel since it's birth), so I decided to join this forum so that I can at least add something to this discussion that troubles us all. It is the right thing to do, I belive.

So you are asking what is my opinion about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? I will be very honest with you: I think that nobody here, not me, not you, not even most politicians in or out of Israel know enugh about the subject to have an actual opinion. I have had the pleasure and the honour to meet a man who devoted his whole lift to the study of this very topic, yet even he said that he would never be able to form a good opinion because humans as a species, no matter how they hide it, are at their core biased, self serving assholes who only care about themselves and themselves and themselves.
He is very right. I live this conflict ever since I was born. My girlfriend, a girl that I cared about very much, was killed by a Palestinian rocket* a few weeks ago. My older brother, a man who I care very much about Will never be the same after the horrors he saw during his service. Yet I force myself not to hate the Pelestinians, because I know this hate will not be justified and will make me as bad as all the others around here who know nothing about the conflict and simply shout to be heard.

I am eqully disgusted and filled with pity when I see a six years old Palestinian boy in the news or the six years old orthodox boy from next door shouting that the [other side] are all evil bloodthirsty warmongering monsters and that they will gladly sacrafice their lives to destroy [other side].

I DO NOT think that the settlers\colonists\however they are called in your place(We call tham Mitnachalim) have any right to set up their rickity villages on Palestinian territory(Israel is doing it's best to demolish those, but they are zealous and fanatic and just settle somwhere else). I also DO NOT think Palestinians have the right to kidnap soldiers or send suicide bombers into shopping malls or bus stations befor they tried peacful negotiations(And don't tell me they did. When the solution was suggested that would give the two peoples an equal shar of the land(I actually think they were promised more but I don't remember clearly and I don't want to say anythink dangerous), the jews agreed, but the arabs just started making threats that eventually escalated into a very bloody war whose peorpse was TOTAL ANNIHILATION of the jewish people).

I do not think Tzahal(You call tham the IDF, right?) soldiers have the right to use innocent bystanders as meat shields or targate practice(They say they "suspected they might be carrying weapons", but I don't belive tham. They were just bloodthirsty fanatics no better than the suicide bombers and I am happy they were severely punished. I also do not think the Palestinians have any right to attack civialians all day with kasams(My aforementioned girlfriend had to the shelter ten times a day a few years ago). Note that I do not pity the Palestinian civilians killed in bombing runs: I don't know if you heard about it, but Tzahal makes it a practice of alwayes sending warning to Palestinian leaders befor performing one. The fact that the civilians are not evacuated immediately proves either that said leaders are stuiped, powerless, or twisted to the point of sacraficing dozens of innocent Palestinians for the sake of making Israel look bad. Also note that we Tzahal makes utmost effort to avoid collateral damage when bombing, even if it makes their job a thousands times more difficult. Unlike, say, one country whose name I can't quite recall who naplamed the shit out of another country some forty years ago. They also used chemical weapons, but that is another thing already.

I do not think we have a right to own Jerusalem. I do not think anybody has. If it was up to me I would say the place needs to be blown the fuck up to solve many many many problems. But it is not up to me.

If there was a peacful resolution available it would be great. But their is not. Both sides are to stubborn and both hate the other side so unconditionally that this would likely never happen.

Israel alwayes was, is now, and will likely alwayes be at a state of war. It is a shame, but we simply have no other place to go. This is our home. This is where we were born. This is the land of our ancestors and this of of our children. The arabics can, of course, say the exact same and nobody would ever be able to prove he is right.

You must understand: Today is the day where our whole country goes silent in remembrance of the Holocaust. Today is the day where we are most aware of the fact that Israel is our only home, our only sanctuary in a world that hates us, whether there is a reason or ther is not. And we will protect this haven no matter what, because we truly can't go anywhere else.
We jews went through hell. Some of us, less than a half of us, survived, albeit with scars to their very souls. They came here following dreams and prophecies thousands of years old, expacting to find peace. They never did. Critisize Israel at your leisure, but please, don't deny us the only thing we have.

P.S. My younger brother, four years old asked me just a minuete ago what I was doing. I said that I am telling people in far away lands that Israel is not evil. He was quite and then he said "Please tell tham that we are not evil. We do not like to kill. It is sad.". How very touching.

P.P.S. Don't listen to what the media tells you. The media is alwayes biased. This war saw the burned corpses of Israeli and Palestinian babies. Most networks will only show you one, quietly forgetting about the other). It is the way media works. It is a shame.

* She lived in Sderot. Not a good idea at all. By the way, my ex girlfriend died of brain cancer, and the one before her in a car accident. Someome up there wants me to stay alone, I susspose.



Good evening, everyone.
Leonard
I nearly cried when I read that. I hope that everyone in this thread reads this, whether or not it'll change their opinions. I have family back in Israel and I worry for them all the time since the next day they could be bombed to smithereens.
 

Perryman93

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Jumplion said:
perryman93 said:
Mardy said:
Yes, yes I do think so. After all palestinian terrorists started attacking Israel and then everyone blames Israel. Yes I know it might not always have been the palesinians.
Also they made a badass tank. And they won the Six Day War.
Israel belonged to palestinians first, britain and america set up the state of israel in the 50s because we felt sorry for what happened during the holocaust !! the palestinians only believe that they are fighting for the freedom to be ruled by someone of their own religion! personally i am on the palestinians side! and no i am NOT anti semitic i just feel that the palestinians have a stronger, and historically older claim to the territory!!!
What "claim"? The Native Americans had "claim" to their land, and look how that turned out!

It's useless saying "This is mine!" "Well I don't see your name on it!" "but I had it first!" debate because that's not how war, or history for that matter, works at all.

So what, you had it first? Well to bad, it's mine now! Either deal with it or try to take it back, and that's exactly what the Palestinians are doing right now. I'm sick of people saying that because they were here first, it means that it's theirs, when that's never been the case in any land acquirement in the history of the whole world.
the land was theres the jewish population do not deserve to be given a country just because of 'the holocaust' and because the current british/american governments felt sorry for them!! its a disgrace to human rights and so called 'democracy' frankly the country should never have existed, and should be dissolved and the land returned to its muslim proprietors!! and i am in no way anti semitic but i frankly agree with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's speech at the UN racism summit, which israel is boycotting!!!! because they are racist against muslims!!!
 

Sewblon

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If my sense of history is correct Israel is within what used to be the biblical Jewish kingdoms, so I think that it was right to create it. They were actually there before the Arabs but then the Roman Empire expelled them.
 

Jumplion

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perryman93 said:
the land was theres the jewish population do not deserve to be given a country just because of 'the holocaust' and because the current british/american governments felt sorry for them!! its a disgrace to human rights and so called 'democracy' frankly the country should never have existed, and should be dissolved and the land returned to its muslim proprietors!! and i am in no way anti semitic but i frankly agree with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's speech at the UN racism summit, which israel is boycotting!!!! because they are racist against muslims!!!
Stop with the exclamation points everywhere, you're looking fanatical.

The Muslims could have easily lived with the Jews in Israel, the only problem is that they didn't want any Jews in the "holy land" at all. This whole thing would be averted if Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would just say "You know, let's deal with it an live with them".

By agreeing with him, you're basically agreeing to wipe out the Jewish race and saying that they're justified in blowing up innocent civilians. And that, my friend, is anti-semetic ;) But that's a cheap shot, I'll admit.

I'd suggest reading Onerius's [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.108674?page=3#1840784] post about this whole thing. Just sayin'...
 

soulsabr

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perryman93 said:
Jumplion said:
perryman93 said:
Mardy said:
Yes, yes I do think so. After all palestinian terrorists started attacking Israel and then everyone blames Israel. Yes I know it might not always have been the palesinians.
Also they made a badass tank. And they won the Six Day War.
Israel belonged to palestinians first, britain and america set up the state of israel in the 50s because we felt sorry for what happened during the holocaust !! the palestinians only believe that they are fighting for the freedom to be ruled by someone of their own religion! personally i am on the palestinians side! and no i am NOT anti semitic i just feel that the palestinians have a stronger, and historically older claim to the territory!!!
What "claim"? The Native Americans had "claim" to their land, and look how that turned out!

It's useless saying "This is mine!" "Well I don't see your name on it!" "but I had it first!" debate because that's not how war, or history for that matter, works at all.

So what, you had it first? Well to bad, it's mine now! Either deal with it or try to take it back, and that's exactly what the Palestinians are doing right now. I'm sick of people saying that because they were here first, it means that it's theirs, when that's never been the case in any land acquirement in the history of the whole world.
the land was theres the jewish population do not deserve to be given a country just because of 'the holocaust' and because the current british/american governments felt sorry for them!! its a disgrace to human rights and so called 'democracy' frankly the country should never have existed, and should be dissolved and the land returned to its muslim proprietors!! and i am in no way anti semitic but i frankly agree with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's speech at the UN racism summit, which israel is boycotting!!!! because they are racist against muslims!!!
I don't believe you should be allowed to have whatever you have. Why? Oh, it's nothing you did. Some random entity screwed up and did you a favour but it has pissed off a lot of your neighbours and a few odd passers-by. So, to make everybody else happy, I'm going to take away everything you have and everything you have ever known. Sounds fair, right?