Poll: Israel: Is it's existence justified?

[fulano]

This thread has bad idea written all over it.

The dude asked a question. How is that a bad idea? Saying it is a bad idea is a bad idea in itself. Suddenly people have to stop asking questions because people might be irresponsible with their answers? Puhlease...

 

[God's Clown]

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I can understand the saying let them fight themselves, but the world, including the USA NEEDS to somewhat police it. It would screw the whole world over if they started launching WMD that they may or may not have at each other.

All in all though, would just be better if they all stfu'd and got along.

 

[Fatalis67]

It's hard to argue they have a right to the place when an entire country was already there when they moved in, took over the government, and then waged war on everyone around them. Being f***ed over does not mean you can spread the hate around by doing it to other people.

I agree. How would you feel if you had an awesome huge house then suddenly a homeless man took it over and made you live in the little shack next door, which he proceeded to throw eggs at.

 

[Perryman93]

i have read up, and not from the media!!!

Then you are reading the wrong sources. You know the guy you said the Israelites boycotted. They did boycott before hand, while most of the world decided to give him a chance preparting a walk out should he show up and spout crazy like he always does. Well he did, they did, and only through careful editing of the videos of the event can you not see that pretty much half the place walked out as he was talking. She he actually believes the holocaust never happened that it was all part of a Jewish plot to steal away Israel form the Palestinians who he thinks have always lived there. He thinks the Jewish people rule the world. He has wackier ideas then most conspiracy theorist I know. I think the people who believe the world is hollow have saner ideas.

half of what you have said i cannot understand because your making no sense, and i never said anything about the holocaust being a Jewish plot to take Israel from the Palestinians!!!!!!!!!! and i don't think Jews rule the world, but they do have a lot of power in the American government.

 

[Overlord Moo]

I think it has a right to exsist... but they picked a really horrible spot for it!

 

[manaman]

i have read up, and not from the media!!!

Then you are reading the wrong sources. You know the guy you said the Israelites boycotted. They did boycott before hand, while most of the world decided to give him a chance preparting a walk out should he show up and spout crazy like he always does. Well he did, they did, and only through careful editing of the videos of the event can you not see that pretty much half the place walked out as he was talking. She he actually believes the holocaust never happened that it was all part of a Jewish plot to steal away Israel form the Palestinians who he thinks have always lived there. He thinks the Jewish people rule the world. He has wackier ideas then most conspiracy theorist I know. I think the people who believe the world is hollow have saner ideas.

half of what you have said i cannot understand because your making no sense, and i never said anything about the holocaust being a Jewish plot to take Israel from the Palestinians!!!!!!!!!! and i don't think Jews rule the world, but they do have a lot of power in the American government.

Ah man, You said you read, but not the media. Implying you thought all media sources all over the world where lying dogs.

Since they seem to mostly support the opposite view then the ones you where expressing that means you are ignoring the sources most likely to be truthful in favor ones like the man you mentioned. The President of Iran.

I was pointing out just how fuck ass crazy some of his views are. The media is actually a good place to get information. As far as why I specifically choose the racism conference at Switzerland to show that was because you brought it up in the first place in a statement that was anti Israel.

 

[timmytom1]

Well the land was technically never there's in the first place
i think it should not have been created although the jews did need somewhere to go

there's a famous saying that actually is said in many religions

"The Jews are cursed to never have a land of their own"

Not being oiffensive or rascist or trying to say that jews are bad but simply stating something that seems very intresting

Overall i think we should come down to one thing , Were they there first ?

And the US is technically on stolen land from the Natives, and you know what they did? They slaughtered every last one of them! Hell, I have less of a right to live on this land than Israelis because they're continually fighting for it right now!

But I really don't want to delve into this topic, it'll just turn out ugly. I will agree however that Israel was not exactly established in the best of places in the world...

Though i`m uk we have a similar situation where after the norman conquest of 1066 the normans aware that saxons could and most likely would turn on him simply set about wiping out as many of he could (to be fair a cinsiderable amount of the saxon nobility died at hastings making william or guillaume as he should prob be called) but yeah this will only lead to flaming and isreal wasn`t founded in the best of conditions....

 

[timmytom1]

Their existance is justified by DEAGLE TO YOUR FACE.

Now THAT is effective diplomacy

 

[deecon13]

this is some mean as hell subject matter..from a biblical stand point....this shit will never end...it's all old testament abraham did this and that and folks think their owed this land and that land...that area of the world has been fought over for thousands of years...and until the oil dries up...or jesus comes back or some other messiah like event happens...(no offence).. noone will play nice...

 

[Jumplion]

Hmm. I like that idea.

How about we mexicans flood the U.S' neighboring territories(which we are doing already), keep having babies like rabbits, and then take control of the land by force and fight for it tooth and nail and have it annexed to Mexico until hundreds of years from now it becomes but a matter of debate whether we should be there or not, and whether it is justified? Certainly if you've got millions of mexicans living there, with their own culture and lives, and families you just can't kick them out.

Like my idea?

Hey, it worked for America......>_>;

 

[fulano]

Hmm. I like that idea.

How about we mexicans flood the U.S' neighboring territories(which we are doing already), keep having babies like rabbits, and then take control of the land by force and fight for it tooth and nail and have it annexed to Mexico until hundreds of years from now it becomes but a matter of debate whether we should be there or not, and whether it is justified? Certainly if you've got millions of mexicans living there, with their own culture and lives, and families you just can't kick them out.

Like my idea?

Hey, it worked for America......>_>;

Yes it did. Let's just say that taking someone else's territory for yourself seems to be fair game if you can defend it. Though that does not make it moral to begin with.

 

[Jumplion]

Hmm. I like that idea.

How about we mexicans flood the U.S' neighboring territories(which we are doing already), keep having babies like rabbits, and then take control of the land by force and fight for it tooth and nail and have it annexed to Mexico until hundreds of years from now it becomes but a matter of debate whether we should be there or not, and whether it is justified? Certainly if you've got millions of mexicans living there, with their own culture and lives, and families you just can't kick them out.

Like my idea?

Hey, it worked for America......>_>;

Yes it did. Let's just say that taking someone else's territory for yourself seems to be fair game if ou can defend it. Though that does not make it moral to begin with.

Good, we're on the same page here.

 

[fulano]

Hmm. I like that idea.

How about we mexicans flood the U.S' neighboring territories(which we are doing already), keep having babies like rabbits, and then take control of the land by force and fight for it tooth and nail and have it annexed to Mexico until hundreds of years from now it becomes but a matter of debate whether we should be there or not, and whether it is justified? Certainly if you've got millions of mexicans living there, with their own culture and lives, and families you just can't kick them out.

Like my idea?

Hey, it worked for America......>_>;

Yes it did. Let's just say that taking someone else's territory for yourself seems to be fair game if ou can defend it. Though that does not make it moral to begin with.

Good, we're on the same page here.

Though bear in mind I don't advocate that. The fact that you can defend a piece of land does not give you or anyone the right to invade it in the first place.

 

[RathWolf]

You know what's funny? The whole argument is because Palestinians believe that they were there first, and that the Israeli were just given land that was Palestine's by Britain and other world powers, and yet, the country of Palestine itself was created by Britain setting aside land for it's territory.

 

[capnjack]

You know what's funny? The whole argument is because Palestinians believe that they were there first, and that the Israeli were just given land that was Palestine's by Britain and other world powers, and yet, the country of Palestine itself was created by Britain setting aside land for it's territory.

Bzzzzt, you're wrong. The whole "argument" (and by that you mean physical conflict) stems from the fact that there was an established race of millions of people living happily on that land when they were brutally forced into exile. The Jews were supported by the Western world and were able to either kick out or kill most people who lived there, resulting in millions of refugees. Not all of them had a place to go, so they had to leave their homes and live on the outskirts, in lose all their belongings. The millions of people still living there are not only fighting for their lives, but they're fighting for the future of their families, that they may one day have a decent place to live.

That's what it comes down to. If China invaded America, you can bet your ass the remaining Americans would be fighting in any way they can 50 years later. That's what happened in that region.

Does that mean I don't think the people living there have a right to live there? Of course not. I think both parties have a right to live there, equally, under a democratic law.

 

[RathWolf]

You know what's funny? The whole argument is because Palestinians believe that they were there first, and that the Israeli were just given land that was Palestine's by Britain and other world powers, and yet, the country of Palestine itself was created by Britain setting aside land for it's territory.

Bzzzzt, you're wrong. The whole "argument" (and by that you mean physical conflict) stems from the fact that there was an established race of millions of people living happily on that land when they were brutally forced into exile. The Jews were supported by the Western world and were able to either kick out or kill most people who lived there, resulting in millions of refugees. Not all of them had a place to go, so they had to leave their homes and live on the outskirts, in lose all their belongings. The millions of people still living there are not only fighting for their lives, but they're fighting for the future of their families, that they may one day have a decent place to live.

That's what it comes down to. If China invaded America, you can bet your ass the remaining Americans would be fighting in any way they can 50 years later. That's what happened in that region.

Does that mean I don't think the people living there have a right to live there? Of course not. I think both parties have a right to live there, equally, under a democratic law.

Sorry, I guess I oversimplified it. I just wanted to point out that interesting fact and needed a way to introduce it.

 

[ygetoff]

The way both sides work in this issue is preventing anything good from coming out of it. Yes, Israel should exist. A people deserve a place all their own. However, the way Israel responds to threats is not justified. If Russia invaded the U.S. every time relations between them became harsh, the world would be destroyed. Israel does the same. However, in the interest of objectivity, Hamas and other Arab nations need to lay off. But overall, Israel needs to change its methods of dealing with other nations. Also, it's treatment of native Palestinians is not good (though some blame can leveled at the Palestinians as well), and that needs to change. Responding to a wild rocket strikes with equally wild artillery fire is not a good way to deal with problems.

The difference is, the harm to Israel is physical, not stuff like with US and Russia in the Cold War. It's not the enemies waving their guns around, they've been actively firing at Israel for years. Israel, to my knowledge, hardly ever retaliates with the most recent being in the Gaza.

I agree, however, that Israel should find a better way to deal with them, but that sounds easy on paper. What else can Israel do? Peace treaties have been tried, but not many have been successful to my knowledge aside from Egypt, and even that treaty's shaky.

But I really really really really really really really don't want to get into this again. Tally-ho!

Both sides can start by acknowledging their mistakes. It's a lot easier to listen to someone when they aren't self-righteous.

Hmm... because Hamas is a beacon of self-restraint and understanding.

Wait, no, I wandered off into dreamland again. In reality, Hamas is an extreme-Islamist group which brainwashes its own people into blowing themselves up in order to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible. Their sole aim is the destruction of Israel, and the setting up of an extremist religious state, where only hard-line Islamism is tolerated. In order to do this, they build hospitals and schools, then use them as weapons bunkers and firing platforms. Hamas is not looking out for the Palestinian people. It's trying to further the cause of Islamism.

Whether you believe Israel has a right to exist or not, you have to acknowledge that it's one of the only functioning democracies in the Middle East. Israel is not looking to take over the world with Judaism. It's simply surrounded by countries which would like nothing more than to wipe it off the face of the earth.

Incidentally, during the 6 month 'ceasefire' between Israel and Palestine (2006-7), Hamas launched over 300 rockets into Israel. The IDF didn't launch even a single rocket in response. Israel genuinely wants peace. Hamas wants nothing more than a 'hudna': a temporary respite in fighting so that they can re-group and re-strategize their attacks on Israel.

There needs to be a way to respond to that OTHER than returning fire. I know that Israel wants peace. However, when Israel responds to attacks with more violence, it sets the Palestinian people against them, and furthers support for radical groups. the same thing is happening in Afghanistan with the U.S. drone fighters. The strikes against Hamas need to made with surgical precision. Israel isn't doing a good job with that.