Poll: It's really time to stop supporting Blizzard

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bob1052

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Oct 12, 2010
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Garak73 said:
bob1052 said:
Garak73 said:
Stop pretending there isn't a scam in regards to agreeing to a contract you can't read until you open the product and then can't return it.
Are you really going to try bringing up something that has been dismissed in two threads already? You are losing footing in this argument fast.
It hasn't been dismissed. Open software cannot be returned with any certainty. It is the only product that I know of that cannot be returned to the retail location it was purchased from.

That you MIGHT get lucky and get a refund from the publisher is not a certainty and it is alot more hassle than with any other product.
Blizzard, or any developer, does know if a key is valid or invalid, active or inactive at any time. If you can prove you own a key, and it is invalid, and you have an issue with their game, you have a valid case for a refund.

Garak73 said:
And how does Blizzard making their game instead of your game create an issue?
There are two threads about it, you are in one of them.
There are two threads in which you believe that because people cheated in a game that forbids cheating, in both the EULA (which you stalwartly believe is a scam after being proven wrong twice) and in press releases, is the fault of the developer for not making the game accommodate cheats (aside from the ones given to the players from the developer for use).
 

asinann

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Apr 28, 2008
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Custard_Angel said:
Cheating is cheating. Suffer the consequences.

Play by the rules and you have nothing to worry about.

It's like getting a speeding ticket then campaigning to impeach the government.

Retarded.
Except that you can't get a speeding ticket on your own property.

There should NEVER be a punishment of any kind for cheating in single player modes of games. Blizzard could have (and have done in the past) programmed the game so that if a cheat of any kind was on achievements could not obtained.

And for all you "they broke the EULA" people: End User License Agreements are legally unenforceable in almost every state because they lack a clause that leaves the rest enforceable if one part becomes unenforceable and in most states at least 1 part of every single EULA is unenforceable. That's how they can question the legality of the bannings. I know that the one Sony used with Everquest back around 2005 (haven't read it in a while so I don't know if it's still there) actually violated international copyright law by claiming everything you did, every character you created and their names as their intellectual property without forcing you to actually give up your copyright to it.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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astrav1 said:
http://www.cheathappens.com/article_blizzardbans.asp
I'm sure you all have seen this by now but for those of you who haven't get a look at what those bastards are trying to get away with now. I'm calling for an escapist wide boycott on everything Blizzard.

Now, WHO'S WITH ME!!!
I read the link. At the point they were questioning the legality of an account suspension, I was already rolling my eyes.

In fact, it kinda works the other way. Thanks to the DMCA (which codified the existing WIPO treaty), it's almost certainly illegal for them to be modifying the game in the fashion. I get the idea that you want to play the game your way, but that doesn't make it right for you to do so.

Than being said, I can't name the last Blizzard game I bought, so they won't see the difference.
 

bob1052

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Oct 12, 2010
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asinann said:
Custard_Angel said:
Cheating is cheating. Suffer the consequences.

Play by the rules and you have nothing to worry about.

It's like getting a speeding ticket then campaigning to impeach the government.

Retarded.
Blizzard could have (and have done in the past) programmed the game so that if a cheat of any kind was on achievements could not obtained.
Blizzard did to this. The whole point of the cheats is to allow players to bypass the achievement prevention tool.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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bob1052 said:
I think you know a lot more into the specifics of this discussion than I do, so I will concede that you are probably right, but couldn't the same logic be applied to many other forms of media?

Why release Lord of the Rings as a trilogy (+1) as books when you can just take the extra time to release one for an epic journey. At the end of #2 the story was still unresolved, etc.
A lot of my information comes from articles like this one (also from The Escapist)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103607-Blizzard-Explains-Tough-Decisions-Behind-StarCraft-II-Trilogy

While written from a pro-Blizzard standpoint, this is where they claim it would take 10-12 years for them to have done the entire trilogy (and I've heard longer quotes from other sources here and there), and to me that invalidates a lot of their own defenses due to the sheer "WTF" factor not to mention a lot of the defenses fans make.

It's pretty easy to learn about with a bit of digging if your ever interested in solid info other than just listening to people like me ramble second hand.

-

As far as things like movies go, there are limits to how long someone can sit down and watch one consistant performance. Games might be able to provide hundreds of hours of gameplay but it doesn't require one to sit there and play the game for that time straight through, you can easily get up to use the bathroom without missing anything in most cases. With a movie sitting there for nine hours or whatever is pushing it, and if you get up to get a drink or go to the bathroom (or get tired and need to sleep) your going to miss stuff if you do. There are practical concerns for splitting things like the "Lord Of The Rings" movies up that way.

When it comes to books, a big part of the issue is of course the abillity of the writer. It took Tolkien a LONG time to finish "Lord Of The Rings" it was not one complete work that was split up. Other series like Asimov's "Foundation" likewise were split up over a lifetime.

With books in some cases splitting a story up into a triology or series is done to be practical, sometimes it's done to make money, in most cases however it's because the writer is doing it one piece at a time, and both the publisher and readers are of course dependant on the writer deciding to eventually finish things. There have been a number of series through the years where the writer never finished the work for various reasons. Roger Zelazny died before he coould complete the last Amber series for example.

The thing is that the videom game medium allows for someone to practically release hundreds of hours of content, and for people to consume that content effectively. What's more, you see various game companies releasing games of that length/with that much content.

Sometimes it might not take all that much time/content to tell a story, or make a complete game, it depends, and people argue about the length of games and how various titles turned out all the time. The thing with "Starcraft 2" is that they already had the entire thing planned out as a single, cohesive work. They decided to take that work and split it into a triology to make more money, and drag things out, and then cover it with lame excuses by claiming it would have taken them a decade to produce the entire thing.

I say lame excuses because if you look at what games looked like back in the year 2000, can you actually imagine in 2020 when they finish this game (if they are serious) what the current tech is going to be like in comparison? It's not going to be a part of it, it's
going to be something entirely differant by that point. No game is going to stay in development unchanged for that long where it's going to take 10 years to produce (which is why "Duke Nukem Forever" was such a joke).

See, what makes me angry is that Blizzard is not only being greedy, the stuff they are saying seems to imply that their entire fanbase is a group of morons. Over 10 years it's not a bloody Trilogy, it's Starcraft 2, 3 and 4.... and I doubt it's going to take that long.
 

1rednose

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Oct 11, 2009
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Seems there are a lot of people that say you shouldn't cheat. My question is, why not? It's your game, and should be able to do with it what you want. Someone else's cheating and achievements that you worked hard to get the honest way may annoy you, but it's THEIR game, not yours. If this affected multiplayer games, then of course it would be wrong, but seems to be nothing more than Blizzard trying to tell you how to play a game you own, which is bollocks.
 

Korroth Dyahwanre

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Jul 3, 2010
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OK Bob1052 since we've got this book analogy going.... with the books I'm not required to have the other three still taking up space in my lap in order to read the last one. The Expansions for the game have required the previous in order to function properly in the past. It is easier to install 1 large program without having to reinstall portions of it when you install the next piece of the Game. to install that much over time, Consumes hardrive space that not everyone that wishes to play can afford to set aside for blizzard(or honestly any game company). Now unless blizzard gets smart and makes them(each installment) stand alone and not require the others to play the latest then I have nothing to stand on :)

But this has nothing to do with people boycotting Blizzard for banning cheaters...

We now return you to your regularly scheduled ***** fest...... carry on
 

bob1052

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Oct 12, 2010
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Garak73 said:
Blizzard, or any developer, does know if a key is valid or invalid, active or inactive at any time. If you can prove you own a key, and it is invalid, and you have an issue with their game, you have a valid case for a refund.
A valid case means nothing. If I have a valid case, why can't I take it back to the retail store like I can with anything else. Is it Wal Mart, Target, KMart, Best Buy, etc... that are the problem or is it the publishers that advise retail stores not to take them back?

There are two threads in which you believe that because people cheated in a game that forbids cheating, in both the EULA (which you stalwartly believe is a scam after being proven wrong twice) and in press releases, is the fault of the developer for not making the game accommodate cheats (aside from the ones given to the players from the developer for use).
Other games allow use of a trainer so really, why is this game any different? Blizzard chose to design their game this way and it has had negative consequences.
1. Blizzard has access to their servers and records. They know if your randomized 25-digit code is real, fake, active, or pending activation. Wal Mart does not. If you cannot understand that then you have no credibility in a debate about the distribution or handling of game accounts.

2. This game is different because Blizzard made it different, and they have specified well enough that it is different that anyone who cheats knows they can/will be banned for it.

Korroth Dyahwanre said:
OK Bob1052 since we've got this book analogy going.... with the books I'm not required to have the other three still taking up space in my lap in order to read the last one. The Expansions for the game have required the previous in order to function properly in the past. It is easier to install 1 large program without having to reinstall portions of it when you install the next piece of the Game. to install that much over time, Consumes hardrive space that not everyone that wishes to play can afford to set aside for blizzard(or honestly any game company). Now unless blizzard gets smart and makes them(each installment) stand alone and not require the others to play the latest then I have nothing to stand on :)

But this has nothing to do with people boycotting Blizzard for banning cheaters...

We now return you to your regularly scheduled ***** fest...... carry on
What if you use your mind as the hard drive and the books as a lengthy install process. Once you read them you know them. You need to remember the previous book for the current to make sense.
 

1rednose

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Oct 11, 2009
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Custard_Angel said:
Cheating is cheating. Suffer the consequences.

Play by the rules and you have nothing to worry about.

It's like getting a speeding ticket then campaigning to impeach the government.

Retarded.
Thought this was the very reason to impeach the government?
Granted, the example given uses extremes, but if you feel a law is unjust, then by all means try to change it. Our founding fathers thought the current rules were unfair, and rather than just play by them, rallied against them.
 

Snotnarok

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Nov 17, 2008
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Garak73 said:
Snotnarok said:
Garak73 said:
Blizzard should have separated single and multiplayer achievements but they didn't so really, they created this situation.
It's their fault you decided to cheat? It's their fault that you'd still be cheating to get achievements which no company is okay with you doing?

I don't even like blizzard, they're under Activision and there's no company I want restructured more than them and I'm totally with them on this.

You hit "I agree" to the EULA, you break it, you fall in their rules. Stop trying to shift the blame, blizzard or activsion didn't make you cheat, ya chose to. Ya get to buy the game again, this time don't cheat and all will be fan-dabby-tastic.
I didn't buy the game, I didn't cheat but I do think they are overstepping. The EULA is worthless except to people like you who give it it's power.

Stopping throwing it up there as if we should all bow before it. Stop pretending there isn't a scam in regards to agreeing to a contract you can't read until you open the product and then can't return it.
I know you didn't buy it, but you're defending people using cheats. Does the EULA suck? Yes in a lot of ways it does, but you bought the game, and when you open it, it tells you what not to do to keep your account.

Am I defending it? No I'm telling you why their in their right to ban anyone who cheats. I hate DRM and the EULA but the EULA at least TELLS YOU what you can do to keep your game instead of DRM which lies cheats its customers and supports the pirates.
 

bob1052

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Oct 12, 2010
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Just out of curiosity I grabbed my box of Starcraft 2

The use of this software product is subject to the terms of an End User License Agreement
available at http://www.starcraft2.com/legal/eula.html ...
More proof that the argument that you open the box before you see the EULA is completely wrong.

Is it in fine print? Yes. Did you really expect anything different from any company? Not if you have half a brain.
 

nondescript

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Oct 2, 2009
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astrav1 said:
http://www.cheathappens.com/article_blizzardbans.asp
I'm sure you all have seen this by now but for those of you who haven't get a look at what those bastards are trying to get away with now. I'm calling for an escapist wide boycott on everything Blizzard.

Now, WHO'S WITH ME!!!
They're trying to get away with people hacking their games. *gasp* the NERVE!!!

Boo hoo. Go play Starcraft 1 and feel justified. Or Pogs.