Poll: Japanese or Western Mecha?

[Cylem]

Japan's got Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, so it's not a fair fight.

...Even if TTGL is more a parody of the genre than actually about mechs, they don't need to abide by logic because they BREAK THROUGH THE IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[A random person]

My problem with Western mecha (other than thinking they look like boxes with legs) is that combat with them is intensely boring. Plant legs, shoot guns, whoopee. They're incredibly dull (and I can't get over how dumb the 40k designs look - a castle on its back? REALLY?)

Besides, there are Japanese mecha that get the whole "walking tank" feel without looking like somebody slapped a pair of legs on a refrigerator carton (whereas I haven't yet seen a Western mech that gets the whole sleek and streamlined feel of, say, a Gundam or a Valkyrie).

Spoiler: The Tieren Anti-Air variation is a sexy, sexy beast

Battletech. Also in Warhammer, there are Mechs that stand twice as tall as the empire state building, and they are the mid sized ones of their class.

I'm really not sure that's something to be bragging about. It just seems silly to me - it's stuff like that that really turns me off Warhammer 40k.

And the best designs in Battletech are the ones ripped from Macross

Agreed, I don't get why people here seem to bow to Warhammer40k.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/reaver1.htm

I'm sorry everyone, but Western wins out every time.

And that's one of the reasons I don't.

 

[Xanadu84]

I'm going to try for a /thread that can make fans of both sides happy.

Japanese are crazy. We know this. for better or worse, Japanese tend to come up with some crazy ideas. Because of this, Japanese Mechs will run a pretty wide gamut of powers, and will include some things that are absolutely, unreasonably powerful. It will include these because Japanese storytelling will rely more on abstract, stylized concepts that are therefore able to be wilder.

Western mechs, however, are more down to earth. It trades wild, stylized concepts for a bit more gritty realism. Japanese mechs may have access to a broader range of concepts to fit its storytelling, but western mechs trades that for a larger dose of realism and believability. Its a general style, and neither side is better or worse. However...

...this means that in a fight, the Japanese mechs will win. I guess its kind of cheesy to turn an analysis of the 2 styles into a fight, but it is inevitable. We can't help ourselves. However, talking about a fight between these 2 is kind of like asking about a fight between Chuck Liddell and Goku. Yeah, Goku would win, but that doesn't make Dragonball more interesting then MMA fighting. They are just both doing different things which you almost can't even compare. For me, if I want a gritty, realistic action story, Ill go with western, but If I want something more abstract and stylized, ill go with Japanese. Any other distinguishing between the 2 is sheer taste.

Also, to settle the debate about who would win in a battle, in case I didn't manage to do so completely, here you go: Every existing western mech is on one side. On the other side, Eva unit 1 merges the collective unconscious of humanity, sparking the instrumentality of mankind, giving rise to the rebirth of the human race as the pilot briefly becomes God and shapes the world as he sees fit. Winner: Japanese mechs.

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

Seriously, this will end something like "Warhammer 40k pwns your stupid anime mechs," I just know it with our community.

You say that like it isn't totally true. Warhammer 40K is pure concentrated awesome.

Spoiler: Who's a sexy Reaver Titan?

You are!

Plus they have this:

Yes, the Imperator titan is so large that it actually has a bloody castle on its back, complete with its own array of cannons and a landing pad for fighter craft.

And because everything thing he draws is awesome, here are pictures of a Thousand Sons marine and dreadnought by Clint Langley.

Deny the awesome at your own peril!

OK, because I have to repeat it, let me say this: I don't hate Warhammer40k. The reason I bought it up so much in my defensive freakout is because, from experience, people tend to use it to get bashy. It's the fanbase, really.

I find that somewhat ironic considering there's an entire faction in 40K inspired by things like anime mechs. Best of both worlds!

 

[ben117]

The Mjnlor armor from the halo series it's a mini mech, no more said.

 

[A random person]

Seriously, this will end something like "Warhammer 40k pwns your stupid anime mechs," I just know it with our community.

You say that like it isn't totally true. Warhammer 40K is pure concentrated awesome.

Spoiler: Who's a sexy Reaver Titan?

You are!

Plus they have this:

Yes, the Imperator titan is so large that it actually has a bloody castle on its back, complete with its own array of cannons and a landing pad for fighter craft.

And because everything thing he draws is awesome, here are pictures of a Thousand Sons marine and dreadnought by Clint Langley.

Deny the awesome at your own peril!

OK, because I have to repeat it, let me say this: I don't hate Warhammer40k. The reason I bought it up so much in my defensive freakout is because, from experience, people tend to use it to get bashy. It's the fanbase, really.

I find that somewhat ironic considering there's an entire faction in 40K inspired by things like anime mechs. Best of both worlds!

If there is, then yes it is quite ironic. Nonetheless, people still seem to do the thing I mentioned in my first post and, hilariously, use them to argue for western mechs being more realistic (western mechs do have a more down-to-earth bend, but Warhammer40k does not).

 

[Soren91]

The only thing that keeps popping up in my head is Tengen Toppa Gurenn Lagann. Talk about ridiculously huge mechs. Japanese wins in my book just because of that.

 

[GundamSentinel]

Let's see....Voltron and Eva 01?

EVAs aren't mechs they're big humans in armour.

Bio-ethereal mech is still a mech, EVA's are mechatronically controlled.

 

[GodofDisaster]

I prefer Japanese mecha, the Knightmare frames from Code Geass are just awesome.

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

I find that somewhat ironic considering there's an entire faction in 40K inspired by things like anime mechs. Best of both worlds!

If there is, then yes it is quite ironic. Nonetheless, people still seem to do the thing I mentioned in my first post and, hilariously, use them to argue for western mechs being more realistic (western mechs do have a more down-to-earth bend, but Warhammer40k does not).

Behold the Tau!

Spoiler: For the Greater Good!

 

[Spineyguy]

I don't get why people here seem to bow to Warhammer40k.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/reaver1.htm

I'm sorry everyone, but Western wins out every time.

And that's one of the reasons I don't.

The designs and ideas present in the Warhammer 40k background material, novels and the models themselves are exemplary of western science fiction as a whole. Japanese style Mechas always seem too far-fetched for me. A Gundam, while undoubtedly awesome, (I don't dispute that) always seems as though it would never be possible. However, the Mechs you find in Warhammer and in other western sci fi sources look as though at some point in the distant future, mankind really could be going to war in these magnificent peices of engineering.

As massively nerdy as all this sounds, I like the designs of both Japanese, over-blown-super-hero-costume-style mechas and the more western, vehicle-type mechas. I just like the western ones more.

Militant 40k nerds who say "HURR DURR WORHAMMER PWNS UR ASS EVERY TIME LOLOLOLOLOL NUB *thwack thwack thwack*" give the whole culture a bad name. (Yes I do realise that what I just said was hugely hippocritical, please disregard my original comment.)

 

[Skeleon]

Daishi/Dire Wolf says Western.

Spoiler

 

[Pyotr Romanov]

Why isn't there a 'neither' option in the poll? I hate mechs, they simply don't make for good character bonding. They're just huge pieces of metal ten times as big as anything shooting at it. And why would you actually want a mech-vs-mech battle if you could just as well have a person-vs-person battle?

That's actually the exact reason I prefer the design of Japanese mecha. Sure, they're completely impractical and would never work in an actual combat situation, but neither would a Western mecha. Japanese designs tend to be more humanized than Western ones, which means that you get something a lot closer to a person-vs-person fight. Japanese mecha can kick, Western ones usually can't.

Yeah, I've seen some mecha anime, I just can't help wishing they were actual human-ish things I could relate to. When a person jumps, quickly picks up a weapon from the ground, does a handstand, and then a 360 turn while shooting, it looks awesome. When I see a mecha do it I'm like: "Oh... They built that funcion in, eh? Smart fellows"

 

[A random person]

I don't get why people here seem to bow to Warhammer40k.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/reaver1.htm

I'm sorry everyone, but Western wins out every time.

And that's one of the reasons I don't.

The designs and ideas present in the Warhammer 40k background material, novels and the models themselves are exemplary of western science fiction as a whole. Japanese style Mechas always seem too far-fetched for me. A Gundam, while undoubtedly awesome, (I don't dispute that) always seems as though it would never be possible. However, the Mechs you find in Warhammer and in other western sci fi sources look as though at some point in the distant future, mankind really could be going to war in these magnificent peices of engineering.

As massively nerdy as all this sounds, I like the designs of both Japanese, over-blown-super-hero-costume-style mechas and the more western, vehicle-type mechas. I just like the western ones more.

Militant 40k nerds who say "HURR DURR WORHAMMER PWNS UR ASS EVERY TIME LOLOLOLOLOL NUB *thwack thwack thwack*" give the whole culture a bad name. (Yes I do realise that what I just said was hugely hippocritical, please disregard my original comment.)

Good point, though I have quite a few qualms about Warhammer40k mechs being practical. It's not really an engineering or finances thing (I'll let those slide since the factions are absurdly powerful), it's more of a combat practicality and leg thing. Things like Gundams (actually more like Arm Slaves or Knightmare frames, they'd have to be smaller) could be practical for urban combat and rougher terrain as their legs provide mobility advantages, but in the case of Warhammer40k mechs (not the anime-inspired Tau ones as someone else pointed out) the legs on what are otherwise tanks seem to be a bit pointless.

Of course, we can both agree that the "Warhammer40k pwns joo" fans suck, especially when they bash Gundams as flamboyant and impractical by comparing them to Warhammer40k; Warhammer40k mechs are both even more flamboyant (look at the decorations, they're hilariously lavish) and impractical (while Gundams aren't practical themselves, they're more doable than walking tanks taller than skyscrapers). And this isn't even getting into the "Japan sucks because we have Warhammer" 'tards.

Edit: Maybe I shouldn't have said combat practicality as Warhammer40k mechs aren't much better/worse than Gundams, I meant feature practicality.

 

[Jark212]

Western, Autobots anyone?? but both cultures' Mechs would be pwned by a DU round from a M1A2 Abrams Tank...

Spoiler: One of these in the leg and there down for the count...

 

[Spineyguy]

I don't get why people here seem to bow to Warhammer40k.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/reaver1.htm

I'm sorry everyone, but Western wins out every time.

And that's one of the reasons I don't.

The designs and ideas present in the Warhammer 40k background material, novels and the models themselves are exemplary of western science fiction as a whole. Japanese style Mechas always seem too far-fetched for me. A Gundam, while undoubtedly awesome, (I don't dispute that) always seems as though it would never be possible. However, the Mechs you find in Warhammer and in other western sci fi sources look as though at some point in the distant future, mankind really could be going to war in these magnificent peices of engineering.

As massively nerdy as all this sounds, I like the designs of both Japanese, over-blown-super-hero-costume-style mechas and the more western, vehicle-type mechas. I just like the western ones more.

Militant 40k nerds who say "HURR DURR WORHAMMER PWNS UR ASS EVERY TIME LOLOLOLOLOL NUB *thwack thwack thwack*" give the whole culture a bad name. (Yes I do realise that what I just said was hugely hippocritical, please disregard my original comment.)

Good point, though I have quite a few qualms about Warhammer40k mechs being practical. It's not really an engineering or finances thing (I'll let those slide since the factions are absurdly powerful), it's more of a combat practicality and leg thing. Things like Gundams (actually more like Arm Slaves or Knightmare frames, they'd have to be smaller) could be practical for urban combat and rougher terrain as their legs provide mobility advantages, but in the case of Warhammer40k mechs (not the anime-inspired Tau ones as someone else pointed out) the legs on what are otherwise tanks seem to be a bit pointless.

Of course, we can both agree that the "Warhammer40k pwns joo" fans suck, especially when they bash Gundams as flamboyant and impractical by comparing them to Warhammer40k; Warhammer40k mechs are both even more flamboyant (look at the decorations, they're hilariously lavish) and impractical (while Gundams aren't practical themselves, they're more doable than walking tanks taller than skyscrapers). And this isn't even getting into the "Japan sucks because we have Warhammer" 'tards.

Edit: Maybe I shouldn't have said combat practicality as Warhammer40k mechs aren't much better/worse than Gundams, I meant feature practicality.

I think what I meant by Practicality was actually that it would be more realistic not to have giant, steel, death machines doing great flips over one another and fighting with giant, steel, martial arts. I think it'd be much more likely in the future that we as a race will be more aligned to the 'Blast the crap out of the enemy from several kilometers away.' allignment than Gundam-style close-assault, fire-fight, energy blade alignment.

I think the decoration you're refering to is part of what makes western culture (or that of a hundred years ago) truly great. The decoration and inlay that you see on Warhammer vehicles is alot like the way the Victorians built decoration into wool-mills and steam engines, there's no need for it, but the builders felt the need to take extra pride in their work.

I think that it is unfair to compare Gundam suits with Warhammer Titans. Gundams are battlesuits whereas Titans and other 40k machines are vehicles. They are both large bipedal war-machines which kick ass for their entire working career, but at the end of the day, comparing them is like comparing cats and dogs. You'll always get massive differences in opinion on this sort of thing.

Western and japanese mechas are similar in theory, but the roles they fulfill are completely different, and people will like either one or the other for different reasons. Singularly Datarific struck gold when he started this thread, it's already run to 7 pages and it probably won't stop there.

 

[Feralbreed]

Definitely western. I don't really know, guess because I'm a western person myself so I naturally choose a western style. Plus those japanese humanlike robot-things just look ridiculous to me. I hate those oversized swords.

A walking battle tank would at least be a LITTLE more believable. And yes, I know talking about realism is totally stupid when talking about things such as Mechas, but still.

Plus, the first impressions of a mecha came to me from a western-style mecha game. So that adds to it too.

I think a mecha really doesn't need to be anything more than a pair of legs with different guns piled atop...oh and a drivers-seat there somewhere. The japanese have just made a overcompensatory version of this with too much needless extra...like they always do.

And there's usally a whiny 15-year old girl with blue hair driving it...

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

I think the decoration you're refering to is part of what makes western culture (or that of a hundred years ago) truly great. The decoration and inlay that you see on Warhammer vehicles is alot like the way the Victorians built decoration into wool-mills and steam engines, there's no need for it, but the builders felt the need to take extra pride in their work.

And let's not forget that in 40K, Titans are considered "God-Machines" and for a Legio to make their 'engines walk' is in itself a reverent act of worship of the Omnissiah - all the ornamentation is there because those things are walking cathedrals in the eyes of the Mechanicus.

The Victorian age is more akin to the steampunk aesthetic, 40K is mainly trying to evoke a very Baroque or Gothic feel (though admittedly there are elements of steampunk to be found).