Poll: Jedi vs anyone else?

[broadband]

Jedi loose in any universe where shotguns have been invented.

Hahaha! Love it.

Jedi are tough and they have few weaknesses, but as a Jedi once said: there's always a bigger fish. A balrog would eat most Jedi for breakfast. Magneto would be odds-on favourite, as would Flash, Green Lantern, Doctor Strange... err, Doctor Manhattan, if he could be bothered.

The Silver Surfer could beat a Jedi Master, let alone Galactus. Don't know about Unicron.

A Mechwarrior would have a chance.

MacGyver, anyone?

hehe, MacGiver would make his own lightsaber with a latern and a clips

 

[Slycne]

This is all strangely appropriate considering that Yoda and Vadar are characters in the new Soul Calibur.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

Unicron would trounce a Jedi, because he is Orson Welles. Filled with green pea-ness, if you will.

- J

 

[Thegreatoz]

One on one, yes the Jedi would most likely win. But, say the Jedi Master was fighting a Sith Master in a crowded area, I would put my money on the sith because he/she would probably distract the Jedi by attacking people near by, thus gaining the advantage. I also think the Jedi would lose if he/she was douped by someone pretending to be in trouble, or faking returning to the light.

 

[TSED]

why not? i'm no monster. killing is a parth to the dark side. also lets say i'm a Arcon from starcraft.

To quote neverending story, "No! You don't understand anything!"

But yes, a Jedi is still totally beatable.

- J

but i'm a Arcon! also i am confused in 4,5 and 6 they kill like crazy. but in 1,2,3 killing is not as O.K.

... I can't let this go any longer. You mean archon, right?
Furthermore, that doesn't mean you can't kill anything. In fact, I have no idea what you're talking about at this point, and agree with the quote above saying you don't understand anything.



Also: Lightsabers instantly cauterize. Gieger's aliens are NOT going to spray a Jedi with acid, because the wound is not going to bleed.

Furthermore, you realise how fast a jedi would have to force-push to stop a shotgun? Lasers in Star Wars move really, really, really slowly. I don't think it's a viable option.

Honestly, there are as many fictional things that can beat a Jedi as vice versa, so this is a rather boring conversation. Just take the Star Wars RPG (tabletop, sir) and compare things like "Obi-Wan is about level 15" to "Elminster is about level 50".

 

[PurpleRain]

This is all strangely appropriate considering that Yoda and Vadar are characters in the new Soul Calibur.

Oh yeah, anyone that's good at Soul Calibur can probably beat a jedi.

 

[clockpenalty]

Jedi/sith battles do not count. The OP stated that Jedi means light/dark force users.

For fairness, when matching the Jedi, use the version that appears in the respective media.

So if you are matching them up against soul calibur characters, use the character action game versions. (Jedi wins)

Against master chief and Freeman, use the FPS versions from Jedi fps games (outcast, academy)....Jedi wins


Against Justice league cartoon superheroes, xmen evolution, Goku and Naruto, use the animated versions from Clone wars. (Goku wins, Naruto Loses, JLU heroes mostly lose except those with extreme abilities- supes, wonderwoman)

Against opponents from movies (Neo, LOTR heroes/villains, Movie Transformers, movie superheroes), use the movie Jedi.The results vary and are the subject of interesting discussion!


Yeah, the jedi can be beaten, but the truth is they are incredibly powerful. In KOTOR they can achieve such power it is almost outrageous. Plus, lucasfilm makes it confusing by varying the jedi power levels from medium to medium.... We saw Mace windu completely slaughter General grievous in the anime without breaking a sweat, but in the Novel he had a hard time fighting him, due to the unavailability of an all-powerful force crush. Anime Mace also used the force to destroy an army of robots with his bare hands and wipe out a seismic tank several times the size of a transformer. Go figure.

 

[Same River New Water]

@clockpenalty

Good point. I had to think about that one for a second, but it's obvious really: different audiences. Movie audiences are more interested in seeing relatable characters and watching human drama, novel readers are more about living inside the mind of a remarkable character, anime viewers just want to see shit get blowed up. And boobies.

 

[chenry]

One hunting rifle, 700 yards. Jedi dead on the floor before you even hear the shot.

 

[clockpenalty]

@clockpenalty

Good point. I had to think about that one for a second, but it's obvious really: different audiences. Movie audiences are more interested in seeing relatable characters and watching human drama, novel readers are more about living inside the mind of a remarkable character, anime viewers just want to see shit get blowed up. And boobies.

True. It makes sense for the Jedi to be represented differently in different media. The movie Jedi would appear weak in an anime, hence the power upgrade, and the splitting of force powers int distinct 'special moves' eg force pull, force push,force speed etc works in the context of a video game.

@clockpenalty
One hunting rifle, 700 yards. Jedi dead on the floor before you even hear the shot.

Wrong. Even movie jedi would sense the Rifleman's evil intent, even if he were across the galaxy. Anime Jedi would force crush him from that distance, too.

 

[ComradeJim270]

@clockpenalty
One hunting rifle, 700 yards. Jedi dead on the floor before you even hear the shot.

Wrong. Even movie jedi would sense the Rifleman's evil intent, even if he were across the galaxy. Anime Jedi would force crush him from that distance, too.

Sure worked nicely for them in Episode III, huh? I'm detecting sarcasm here, yes? Even if that were the case, a droid could do it instead, because there would be no intent to sense, just cold steel, so to speak.

I also humbly submit the nuclear-armed Mobile Infantry of the novel (not the movie, which is parody and is about as true to the book as Spaceballs is to Star Wars) Starship Troopers. Escape the explosion somehow? That's ok, you're already dead from the radiation, it will just take about a week.

 

[clockpenalty]

@clockpenalty
One hunting rifle, 700 yards. Jedi dead on the floor before you even hear the shot.

Wrong. Even movie jedi would sense the Rifleman's evil intent, even if he were across the galaxy. Anime Jedi would force crush him from that distance, too.

Sure worked nicely for them in Episode III, huh? I'm detecting sarcasm here, yes? Even if that were the case, a droid could do it instead, because there would be no intent to sense, just cold steel, so to speak.

I also humbly submit the nuclear-armed Mobile Infantry of the novel (not the movie, which is parody and is about as true to the book as Spaceballs is to Star Wars) Starship Troopers. Escape the explosion somehow? That's ok, you're already dead from the radiation, it will just take about a week.

In Episode III the Jedi were suffering a blanket blockout of the senses due to Sidious' galaxy-eating power. Nonetheless, remember obi and Ani detecting the mechanical danger to Padme in AOTC? They WILL detect it, even if it is a droid. Its like spiderman's spidey sense- magic power lacking any real biological explanation.

It is canon that you can't just pull a gun on a jedi and kill him. If his reflexes are dull or he doesnt eact in time,you could get him, but ideally the force would prevent such a situation from arising in the first place.

The truth is, the way the force is explained in the movies and novels, it is a plot device that can be used to explain any deus-ex-machina solution a writer can dream of to a Jedi's problems. I suspect the whole idea of Jedi's senses being dulled in the prequels was GL's way of escaping the plot holes that would surface in any story that involved Jedi getting fooled en-masse, aand/or killed by mere stormtroopers.

Minus the overreaching influence of the dark side, the Jedi would be near invincible due to perfect knowledge. Its like playing an FPS aganst a guy using a wallhack and an aimbot- an invisible force that lets him cheat his way to victory. The Jedi were easily fooled by sidious simply because they were overdependent on their senses, so once taken away from them, they stumbled around like a person recently blinded.

Its also worth mentioning that most of the incompetent Jedi were just that- incompetent. Even in the anime, there are many jedi that just get clobbered to death like idiots. The Jedi order *had* grown fat, lazy and weak due to years of prosperity and overconfidence.


Jedi vs mobile infantry? Since we are in novel-land here, I'll have you know that via battle meditation, a Jedi can control an army of millions, spanning an entire planet. This was possible even during the clone wars with underpowered Jedi.

If you want to face movie Jedi, you have to use mobile infantry from the starship troopers movie, and the outcome of that is pretty much cut-and-dry.


EDIT: death from radiation poisoning? Novel Jedi are pretty powerful with the good ol' force heal

 

[The Potato Lord]

Yes. Frank West can bust a skull with a CD case 'Nuff said.

 

[Knight Templar]

irenicus from BG when hes at full power. he shadows gods at that point, controles a army and was geting stronger. tell me how he would fail.

and the whole Archon thing. diddent knoiw where i was going with that and should be shot for misspelling archon.

 

[TSED]

irenicus from BG when hes at full power. he shadows gods at that point, controles a army and was geting stronger. tell me how he would fail.

I already said "pretty much any high level D&D character." Irenicus doesn't count as a D&D character, or high level?

Oh. Anything immune to electricity. Did some poking around with how lightsabers work, and they're electrical-damage-based, not fire. So... Yeah. That's a pretty big list. Freaking huge, actually.


EDIT:: Oh, and btw, no, Irenicus was a far cry from a God. There are Divine servants out there who could stomp him without trouble.

 

[TorchLighter]

Willing to sacrifice yourself?

Lure him into a cave....

with metal walls...

RAIL CANNON

than laugh at him as he and the android you programmed die.

 

[PurpleRain]

The BFG9000. I'm pretty sure a jedi couldn't deflect that one.

 

[Lance Icarus]

Jedi vs Mitsurugi. Am I right or wrong? We'll all know the answer soon enough.

 

[Ciarog]

How much momentum can one be expected to block using the force? Most shotgun gauges have a muzzle velocity between 1,100 and 1,350 feet per second (335-410 meters per second). A 12-gauge shell will generally throw over an ounce of lead in the air and most automatics hold five to eight of them, all off which can often be fired off by a skilled shooter in little more than a second. Anyone getting hit by all that metal at ranges below 5 rods or 25 meters ain't gonna be in much condition for swordplay.

Okay, just to humor you, I did the math and...
There is a reason why they use very small objects at high speeds in guns. That is because of the effect described in Newton's Third Law of Motion. Once object A acts on object B, object B acts with the same magnitude with opposite direction on object A. So accelerating all those pellets with a combined mass of about .0378 kg to 410 m/s (at the max of the range you noted) in, say, a tenth of a second is about 154.98 N of force acting on the shell. Take that and divide it by a 150 pound man (using 68 kg for consistency of units) and you get 2.28 N of force acting on the person which will induce a speed of about .2279 m/s on that person.
Just think about that, if a fly splatter-died against the windshield of a bus having a mass of 1000 kg (just for shit's sake) and it weights less a few grams, then the equation F = ma would look like:
(MASSIVE NUMBER)a1 = (tiny number)a2
and would even out to a very tiny a1 and very large a2 so, essentially, the same force that will more than murder a fly will effect a miniscule acceleration on the bus' part.
The same is applied to the whole gun-thing in that we don't frequently fire things that will send us flying back at immense speeds, so we can't imagine that our foes would be flying back at immense speeds and our projectiles won't have too much force behind them save for their shape which- against some ethereal force- doesn't matter.

Thanks for adding that all up for me; been awhile since I've had physics classes.

My question wasn't so much how much reverse motion the momentum would be inflicted on the Jedi, but how much of it would be needed to penetrate/overload his sheilding, though I think your last sentence answers that question as well.

So there's no exact science behind how much beating a Force block can take? Is there some rough idea on it's limits, or is one to assume the shields can block *anything*? If the latter then I'll concede that the Jedi may very well be indestructible.

 

[DoctorNick]

I'm fairly sure this would kill a Jedi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9u-MaNNDnU

It doesn't matter if they sense it coming or not, there's no way his saving throws are going to be high enough to soak all that damage.