Poll: Jiggle Physics on Man Parts

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

You do know that comic is saying that women have a point when they say it's sexist right? Not that men don't want to see that shit in the last panel... because making us look at the sorceress is the equivalent of guys having to look at the guy in the last panel.

Just saying. I think you have interpreted it wrong.

Quote from Tycho's explanation of the comic

'They don?t like the game?s ridiculously, freakishly, borderline scarily rendered ?woman? and to a certain extent I can understand why.' those last words have a link to the comic.

 

[P.Tsunami]

........does man parts jiggle? i mean we have one thing that sway but i have never seen it jiggle.

sorry for putting those images in your head by the way.

And I am sorry for putting this imagery in your head, but sure they jiggle. Or wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah, as the case may be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqWaqa7ten0

 

[Yuuki]

snip

You do know that comic is saying that women have a point when they say it's sexist right? Not that men don't want to see that shit in the last panel... because making us look at the sorceress is the equivalent of guys having to look at the guy in the last panel.

Just saying. I think you have interpreted it wrong.

Quote from Tycho's explanation of the comic

'They don?t like the game?s ridiculously, freakishly, borderline scarily rendered ?woman? and to a certain extent I can understand why.' those last words have a link to the comic.

I never explained how I interpreted it, you seemed to have assumed something about me out of...somewhere...somehow.

If you are suggesting he's putting across the viewpoint that the sorceress looks to you what the male looks like to us, perhaps that was his intention. I wouldn't know.
What I do know is that he's attempt to draw "perfect equivalence" with the genders by implying that a complete reversal of the situation would both make sense and we all know that gender-flipping "giant tits" to males doesn't equate to anything, it makes no logical sense. I think it's far more subtle and complicated than that, oversexualisation/titilation is not as simple as switching the genders because males and females find different things sexy/attractive about each other.
That's why we get to see a male viewpoint and not female, he doesn't represent you, he represents males, and he's attempting to see the issues female gamers could have with characters like Sorceress. It's simply an attempt, a very crude one at that.

Anyway I've already had my discussion with you about this issue and the bigger picture of consumer-driven marketing. I'm not going to say somethng cold and harsh like "as long as the dominating chunk of creator+consumer remains male we will continue to see more of this and I have no issues with that" because you'll most likely naively ask me for statistics/proof, so I will just say this: In the end it's consumers who call the shots, it's consumers who drive this kind of design because nobody would've used ovesexualisation & titilation as a selling point in the first place if it didn't sell. It worked in the past and it works today.
You have your opinions on this along the lines of "what sells isn't necessarily right", I understand your opinion, I disagree with it and have my own (different) opinion. Cool beans?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

It is his intention he explains as much in the words I linked :/

It's fine that you have your opinion, and personally I'd be okay with the sorceress' proportions as long as she wasn't depicted so sexually. (Since women don't stop being sexy when they aren't twisted into stupid poses)

I don't like the jiggle physics but that's more because it looks stupid than anything. (Also I admit as a straight women it's...off putting to say the least)

The game provides non sexualised characters though so that's something . I'd definitely play Dragon's Crown as the elf.

It's kind of sad I'm restricted to playing the game as only one of the female characters though... even costume choices would help.

It's the fact they ignore the female audience that annoys me more than anything. 20% of female gamers are 'core' gamers now. (out of 49% of the total audience) They might get more female buyers if they actually tried.

 

[Yuuki]

It's the fact they ignore the female audience that annoys me more than anything. 20% of female gamers are 'core' gamers now. (out of 49% of the total audience) They might get more female buyers if they actually tried.

They might try it in the future, if not them then perhaps another developer. Change is slow, change is consumer-driven, ultimately what people want is what developers will create and that reflects in sales figures...sales figures neither you nor me have access to due to not being a part of the internal business/analysis units of giant corporations.
Throwing around a loose percentage isn't enough, you're not going to "debate" complex theories with a physicist equipped with the knowledge that 1+1=2. Through years of experience and research the physicist knows a lot of things you don't (and probably never will) and he's only going to spend time explaining stuff if a large enough population demands an answer. And that's only the explaining part, it's going to take a lot more to convince him to change his theories completely.

The higher-ups make the decisions and all we can do is influence their decisions with our wallets and feedback - if there is enough of something, the high-ups can only gain by catering more towards it (as you said, more female buyers).

Perhaps we could eventually see the whole industry change it's ways - and not just video games, as I said video games are a tiny part of this whole gender topic. It exists in almost every facet of life as we know it, to an extent.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Something I noticed was that GTA5 has no female character despite having a choice of three. (It didn't bother me so much when there wasn't a choice) So they just encouraged me to play Saint's Row 4 instead of their game. Good move there.

Also I think games are suffering a chicken and egg effect. If they don't cater to women, they won't buy games. When we don't buy games they think we don't want games catered to us.

And if we buy the games on the market. which we kind of have too, they think what they are doing at the moment is fine...

It's kind of difficult situation but it's one where the developers need to make the first move. I couldn't choose to buy Saints Row 4 if it didn't exist...

 

[Frotality]

i could see the next saints row doing this.

 

[Yuuki]

Something I noticed was that GTA5 has no female character despite having a choice of three. (It didn't bother me so much when there wasn't a choice) So they just encouraged me to play Saint's Row 4 instead of their game. Good move there.

Perhaps they have concluded from other games and previous sales figures/demands/etc of people who bought GTA games (and possibly data from other games) that the need for a female character wasn't there. Perhaps they figured that whatever few female gamers that are interested in GTA are happy playing a male. Perhaps they felt that a selection of 3 males would be slightly more profitable than a selection of 2 males and 1 female. Perhaps they will see Saint's Row doing vastly better due to featuring a playable female, or maybe not.
Or perhaps (as implied by you) they just don't care, they are shortsighted, they are making business decisions at random, and their choice in characters has no particular reason and is just someone throwing darts with a ton of money. Neither me nor you know the answers to these questions.

Also I think games are suffering a chicken and egg effect. If they don't cater to women, they won't buy games. When we don't buy games they think we don't want games catered to us.

And if we buy the games on the market. which we kind of have too, they think what they are doing at the moment is fine...

It's kind of difficult situation but it's one where the developers need to make the first move. I couldn't choose to buy Saints Row 4 if it didn't exist...

Negative, you can still leave feedback as a consumer. You have the right to criticize the game in their face. Besides voting-with-wallets, criticism and feedback is another thing that can drive change to happen. For example if Rock Star receive enough criticism about a lack of a female protagonist, they may decide to add one later down the road or feature on in their next game because it's in their best interests to maximise profits and appeal to a larger audience (as you said).
Perhaps they'll see a trend along the lines of "Saints Row has it, why can't GTA?" coming up. Who knows.

Just keep in mind that games, like all products/things in life, are allowed to appeal to a specific audience if that's what the creator wants to do. The "but you MUST cater to everyone!" rule doesn't always apply, nobody is entitled to be catered to. Sure people are free to criticize the product for not catering to them, I mean that's pretty much what you and a few others have been doing on these forums for months/years...but in the end it's still up to the developer whether they want to make changes based on that or not. You can't force them to, but if you are seriously dedicated you can become a developer and try your hand at it

 

[Weaver]

I wouldn't care at all. Go ahead!

 

[aguspal]

The whole jiggle physics has always been creppy to me, no matter the gender, so I would say nope.

 

[Gigano]

Well, if big testicles are as appealing to as many women as big breasts are to men, fine by me.

It doesn't seem like there's any actual demand for big testicles from any side though. So why include it? It's more used as some sort of attack on the "big breast" thing, but without actually having anything to do with the reason behind it.

...but if there's a bunch of women with a secret unfulfilled dream of big testicles in their games, I suggest coming forth to game developers about it, and buying games featuring above average sized scrotums, while avoiding those without. Only then will things change.

 

[Darken12]

*snip*

This is exactly how I would love to see sexualisation in the media. Equal-opportunity.

Captcha: by the book. Indeed, Captcha, indeed. By the book.

 

[ShiningAmber]

I say we do jiggle physics to 75% of male characters in the next 5 years of video games.

QQ shitstorm.

 

[Requia]

snip

You do know that comic is saying that women have a point when they say it's sexist right? Not that men don't want to see that shit in the last panel... because making us look at the sorceress is the equivalent of guys having to look at the guy in the last panel.

Just saying. I think you have interpreted it wrong.

Quote from Tycho's explanation of the comic

'They don?t like the game?s ridiculously, freakishly, borderline scarily rendered ?woman? and to a certain extent I can understand why.' those last words have a link to the comic.

The problem is that it isn't equivalent. The actual dragon's crown warrior is equivalent, in that both he and the sorceress have ludicrously exaggerated secondary sex characteristics. PA kinda misses that and really has to resort to even more ludicrous exageration plus giant primary sexual characteristics. There's a serious gap here in how we view badly drawn men vs badly drawn women, and its not an implication I really like, because it implies that being a woman is somehow bad.

Though, that doesn't invalidate your earlier point, there's jack all reason for the promo shots of her to be in a boob *and* ass shot.

snip

It is his intention he explains as much in the words I linked :/

It's fine that you have your opinion, and personally I'd be okay with the sorceress' proportions as long as she wasn't depicted so sexually. (Since women don't stop being sexy when they aren't twisted into stupid poses)

I don't like the jiggle physics but that's more because it looks stupid than anything. (Also I admit as a straight women it's...off putting to say the least)

Oh hey, there's you're other point. But what I really want to say here is that I like women and I still find jiggle physics offputting. It sortof realistic given her body and clothes but maybe a better solution would be whatever the medieval equivalent of a sports bra would have been? She's out fighting monsters after all, kinda dumb to do that while dressed in a way that makes running painful

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

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Well at least you recognize that we have a right to complain about it. That's a bit more than a lot of lads let us have on these forums. Yes I recognise that market forces say something but they also say that all games should be COD and not many gamers I've seen appreciate that...(funding many kickstarters myself)

I did put my tuppence worth into Rockstar and said that maybe since we are half of the population at least one female character could be cool.

I want to learn programming but I have been so sick for the past few years its been difficult for me to do anything, even play games (I know right). Luckily I have an operation on the 8th of this month so hopefully I can dig in after that

The actual dragon's crown warrior is equivalent, in that both he and the sorceress have ludicrously exaggerated secondary sex characteristics.

I don't find anything sexy about him at all..I think you might have fell into the pit of false equivalence there.

 

[Hagi]

Wouldn't have any problem at all with it, it'd be utterly hilarious to be honest.

Especially since it's not really equivalent.


A game where the men constantly flex their magnificent butt-cheeks and every animation has them turning their taut asses to the camera. Something like that would, probably, be closer to the Sorceress' jiggling in titillation. Wouldn't have a problem with anything like that either.

I don't believe the problem in the games industry is that women get sexualized, that's fine. The problem is rather a lack of diverse protagonists, like serious females, and all titillation being aimed at the same demographic.

 

[Lieju]

Yes, your wife.

I don't think many girls could imagine what it's like to have something dangling in-between their legs. Testes are designed to absorb shock or movement to prevent them A) getting twisted - a catastrophic condition which cuts off the blood supply B) Falling off. Quite frankly, it would be an unsightly thing to see because of the pain that the character may be experiencing.

Breasts are just fat tissue with small glands inside to produce milk when the time comes, fat is known to be "wobbly". Sure, the girl might get a bad back because of the size but who doesn't have a bad back? Bad backs aren't as bad as people say.

You know, I'm a lesbian, and I get turned off by huge boobs jiggling, because I can imagine how painful that must be.
There's a reason women wear sports-bras when running and such, and that big-breasted women have issues with that kind of stuff. Them bouncing about hurts.

As for jiggle on the man-parts, depends on the game.
I'm not particularly interested in seeing that, but it might fit in a game like Conan or God of War where you have men running in loin-clothes.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

I think that would be hilarious. Hell I think it would be funny to play a big muscleman warrior wearing nothing but a codpiece who layed the smackdown with his danglyparts.

I'm not going to insinuate that the sorceress has huge tits for any other reason than some art designer thought it would be fun to look at, and I won't deny that gaming probably lacks dongage in the same capacity mainly because it is still a male focus group.
BUT I will say that it's also completely different level of unrealistic.

Spoiler: I mean this really isnt THAT far off

...Also I will never pass up an excuse to look for booblicious pics of Christina Hendricks

^those are real by the way, so yes, if let loose they would jiggle around quite a bit. If we're taking fake boobs into account there are a LOT of girls that look like the sorceress. Though fake boobs don't have the same range of movement.

The way that boobs are portrayed is by exaggerating real qualities to unrealistic proportions. With peni you can't really do that and arrive at a big floppy dick because either they're small and flaccid, or erect and unflexible. I'm not saying big floppy dicks wouldn't be funny or shouldn't be allowed, I'm just saying it takes a bit more surrealism to get "giant floppy dick" than it does "big jiggly boobs." Also do women LIKE big floppy dicks? I'm legitimately asking, because if the added surrealism eliminates the appeal, there's much less of a theoretical reward for big floppy dicks

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

I would find it amusing if male characters where given jiggle physics on their junk mainly because of the absurdity of it, just like when I see female characters with jiggling over sized breast. However that novelty would quickly wear off and such character design is usually enough to put me off playing such a game.

 

[oreso]

Well at least you recognize that we have a right to complain about it. That's a bit more than a lot of lads let us have on these forums.

You've said and implied this a number of times. When was this by the way?

Just keep in mind that games, like all products/things in life, are allowed to appeal to a specific audience if that's what the creator wants to do. The "but you MUST cater to everyone!" rule doesn't always apply, nobody is entitled to be catered to. Sure people are free to criticize the product for not catering to them, I mean that's pretty much what you and a few others have been doing on these forums for months/years...but in the end it's still up to the developer whether they want to make changes based on that or not. You can't force them to, but if you are seriously dedicated you can become a developer and try your hand at it

Exactly this, I think.

Also, I think gaming is actually pretty good at showing female characters, compared to movies. Thinking about what I've played recently, I've been playing females about half the time, and I haven't been trying or anything (a couple of MMOs, Catwoman on Arkham City, and Hydrophobia Prophecy). It's just anecdotal of course, but the options are certainly there.