Poll: ME3 - Aren't You Guys Rather Embarressed?

[Kyle Meadows]

Flaw-- you just compared Mass Effect and an interactive universe that players create with their own actions to a series of books published that apparently didn't have an unsatisfying conclusion and must have had plenty of closure.
You're comparing a Television show people watched in seasons that ended unsatisfactory to games people participated in.
Its an interactive medium. That was my Shepard. And nothing i did mattered. I didn't even get an epilogue-- I'll wager that if there had just been an epilogue that more than half of this wouldn't even be an issue.
But no. Boom. I never payed to watch lost. And I never intend to read Twilight. But comparing mediums that you experience through observation and a medium you experience through interaction and immersion seems off.

 

[GraveeKing]

Nearly 50% think this is something worth fighting for...
I've nothing against the people who voted for this. But I can say my faith in the gaming community just dropped severely.

People! It's an -ending-! From what I hear the rest of the game is pretty great in fact! So where on earth is the problem? One final ending is too much? I mean boy this has happened before - mine-craft had a poor ending and everyone yelled about how terrible it was and demanded it changed.

People who say they're having their money stolen.... see now that's where they've gone too far. You paid for a -game-. Nothing else. You didn't download a DLC that gives you an ending! This was part of the game, you got the game part of the game, the ending is just one bit.
I'm pretty sure Yahtzee is right on this one - people aren't pissed off because the ending (or endings I don't know) are bad - it's because it's ending at all.

Every time I've tried to talk this reason into the forums I'll get attacked for ignorance of the ending. But unless it's a 9 minute long block of non-stop text with no cinematic, choices or alternates - then there is no more to be said, the ending is fine - not the best perhaps but this is getting embarrassing on how far this has gone over the top.

 

[Guardian of Nekops]

So fighting for the right to indirectly force a private company to change their creative work because it doesn't fit your personal standards is now something worth fighting for?

If your landlord turned off your water because he felt it would be more "creatively pleasing" that way, wouldn't you complain? There's a point at which "it's mine, and I can do what I want" runs smack up against what the customer paid for, and there should be some accountability there.

Stories, be they video games or otherwise, require complete endings that flow naturally from the events that came before. In the case of Mass Effect, this ending was described to us, built up for us for years to be something that our choices would affect, in a massive and profound way. The ending to this video game is, in many ways, the reason we bought Mass Effect 3. Hell, it's the reason many of us bought Mass Effect 2. And then, the ending we recieved bore no relation to what was described, to what was advertised, so suddenly there are a lot of fans out there out 120 bucks and wondering why a proper ending cinematic documenting the effects of their choices was too much to ask.

If you promise something for which people are paying, you need to deliver on it. If you are a comercial artist selling a product and you do not accept returns, that art needs to be pleasing. And yes, it needs to be pleasing in its entirety.

If you end the work in a betrayal of the entire continuity up to that point, if you ship an ending that is clearly not even the same sort of thing as the ending you promised, if you somehow manage to enrage the clear majority of your customers, then you should not blame people for whining about it on the internet and maybe, maybe alerting some other poor fans before they sell off any of their organs to buy it. Someone needs to warn us, and since this disappointing ending aparently slipped by the majority of reviewers we might as well be warned by us.

 

[Dansen]

Nearly 50% think this is something worth fighting for...
I've nothing against the people who voted for this. But I can say my faith in the gaming community just dropped severely.

People! It's an -ending-! From what I hear the rest of the game is pretty great in fact! So where on earth is the problem? One final ending is too much? I mean boy this has happened before - mine-craft had a poor ending and everyone yelled about how terrible it was and demanded it changed.

People who say they're having their money stolen.... see now that's where they've gone too far. You paid for a -game-. Nothing else. You didn't download a DLC that gives you an ending! This was part of the game, you got the game part of the game, the ending is just one bit.
I'm pretty sure Yahtzee is right on this one - people aren't pissed off because the ending (or endings I don't know) are bad - it's because it's ending at all.

Every time I've tried to talk this reason into the forums I'll get attacked for ignorance of the ending. But unless it's a 9 minute long block of non-stop text with no cinematic, choices or alternates - then there is no more to be said, the ending is fine - not the best perhaps but this is getting embarrassing on how far this has gone over the top.

Great, people don't share the same opinion as you so you proceed to denounce them by belittling their opinions. Why don't you hear them out?

So many people on this forum have given clear and concise reasons as to why they think the ending is trash, yet in its defense all you can say is it wasn't that bad. Good glad to know the game wasn't THAT bad, but then again thousands of other people don't feel that way and are simply voicing their opinions. But when they suddenly try to address problems it becomes too much. Out of curiosity what do you think the unhappy consumers should do?

The fact that you think the entire gaming community is responsible for things like the lawsuit, is rather pathetic. It is just a hand full of individuals. You have clearly only looked at this issue from a surface level if you believe people are just upset about the games ending. The ending shouldn't have been this bad, when even people that are defending Bioware admit the ending was bad, you should know that they fucked up. People expected a quality ending for the game but they didn't get that at all, they have every right to be angry and address the problem. Bioware and EA cut corners and it showed.

You think the Mass Effect rage is embarrassing? I'll tell you whats embarrassing, when game developer and publisher push out a highly anticipated game, rushed and incomplete, fail to deliver on their promises and yet, and yet they still get away with it because speaking up is considered "going to far."

This is a cause worth fighting for.

 

[Guardian of Nekops]

I don't really have a dog in this fight but I should say that almost all of the non-gamers I've heard talk about this, ones who have only encountered gamers complaining about it online or in person, uniformly think the reaction is silly and immature. Take that how you will I guess.

Take this how you will, but growing up, almost every single non-gamer I ran across thought the hobby was silly and immature. People tend to have arrogant, presumptuous attitudes about things they don't enjoy or don't understand. News at eleven.

Take this how you will but the majority of gamers think those complaining about mass effect are silly and immature and giving gaming as a hobby a bad name. You guys are acting like spoiled little children screaming in the grocery store.

This poll, unscientific and limited in sample size as it is, seems to disagree with you. Out of curiousity, which one are you using for reference, or are you perhaps claiming the support of gamers everywhere with no evidence whatsoever?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Take this how you will but the majority of gamers think those complaining about mass effect are silly and immature and giving gaming as a hobby a bad name. You guys are acting like spoiled little children screaming in the grocery store.

Take this how you will, but any individual who claims to speak for "the majority of gamers", and then uses that farcical starting point as a soapbox from which to hurl juvenile insults, should think long and hard about calling others "immature".

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well, when I wrote 'unprofessional', what I really meant was among the lines of 'immature, extreme, undignified', etc, but I didn't want to upset anyone, so tried settling with the most neutral word I could think of. I apologise if this confused anyone.

Ya see, 95% of the evidence you have for "extreme, undignified" behavior is posts on message boards. You'll pardon me if I don't get as hot in the pants at posts on messages boards as some of you lot. There seems to be some ongoing idiotic perception that if someone posts about something on a message board, they've absolutely lost their minds, and are 15 seconds away from storming the streets with flaming brands held aloft. Oh noes, some gamers gave Bioware feedback in their feedback thread. WHAT ON EARTH HAS SOCIETY COME TO?

Much of this is true. However, just because society has apparently become growingly more infatuated with controversy, does it free us of the obligation to be civilized, reasonable adults?

So, I'm sorry...what are you doing, exactly, to dampen controversy, other than getting ridiculously hyperbolic about a gaming company receiving feedback on the ending of a game? Getting into slap fights with people on the internet is not fighting the good fight for common sense and decency. Every single person who has come into these threads to shout at the people who are shouting at Bioware are just adding to the noise they claim to deplore. What on EARTH is your stake in this?

If you're simply 'consuming the media', then why complain about an unsatisfactory ending, or at least why go to such extreme extents to get your voice heard by its makers? I thought that the resentment to the ending was, at least, partially due to the emotional investment those put in the game as much as financial. People stating they'd spent X amount of time in the story, characters, manipulating its story to their liking?

Uh...I'm not sure if you're deliberately misunderstanding here, so let's try again. The growth of a medium has nothing to do with the quality of its fanbase, and everything to do with the quality of the medium. No one shops for fanbases. They shop for media. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous, and suggesting the behavior of gaming fans is setting back gaming as a medium is so fucking ludicrous it gives me a headache just thinking about it.

But unless it's a 9 minute long block of non-stop text with no cinematic, choices or alternates - then there is no more to be said, the ending is fine - not the best perhaps but this is getting embarrassing on how far this has gone over the top.

What's "over the top" exactly? What earth shaking developments have occurred that I'm ignorant of? Did someone gun down Casey Hudson? Did an angry mob set fire to Bioware's corporate offices?

Oh wait, no...I know what happened. Some fans gave Bioware some feedback, and gave some money to charity.

What's the world coming, to, seriously? So, so far over the top. Messages on forums! My word.

 

[Vykrel]

the reactions are completely justified. although i dont plan on joining any cause to change it, i sincerely hope that they do. the ending was a slap in the face to any real fan of the series.

if so many people werent reacting the way they are, it would be the same as saying its okay for a game developer to not even attempt to deliver on their promises. it would be saying that its okay for them to just not give a shit, because well pay them anyway.

and if Bioware doesnt do something to rectify the situation, im not even sure if ill be able to trust them again. i cant imagine people that are hardcore fans of both Mass Effect AND Dragon's Age. Bioware has delivered crushing disappointment to those unlucky folks, twice.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I've gotten over it, but then I wasn't a die hard fan of the franchise, just a casual one.

Though the whole issue is starting to grow a bit bubonic, and I think it's time for everyone to lacerate their sores and move on to other things.

 

[samaugsch]

I'm other because, while the ending is full of plot-holes and doesn't fit with the tone of the entire series, it's not worth fighting for. Good for you if you think Mass Effect is the best game series of all time but if this is Bioware's vision for the end then it's Bioware's decision to make it that way and we shouldn't change that.

You make it sound like BioWare is a person with a unified and clear vision of how the game should have ended.

In fact, though, BioWare's writers were debating back and forth how they were going to end the game, since they were forced to rewrite it after the original script leaked.

In November they still hadn't come up with a better ending, so the lead writer supposedly vetoed the other writers and pushed through the contradictory crap we got.

Obviously Bioware isn't one person.

May I ask, if anyone knows what the original ending was to share it?

I don't know the details, but it involved harvesting humans (for their genetic diversity) in order to create a Reaper capable of solving the problem with dark energy causing stars to rapidly age... which was eventually going to lead to every star in the galaxy going supernova.

They could've made that one of the worst possible endings. :/

 

[Savagezion]

Sure, if you sell a faulty product believing it to be working OK and it turns out it doesn't and you get injured for it the one who sold it is responsible. However Mass Effect 3 is not a faulty product. If the story didn't end the way you want it, then that's subjective. A story with a poor ending and a car without working breaks can't really be compared by any law.

So here is where you're wrong. Their subjective statements about the game doesn't match your subjective statement of the game. That does not mean they told an objective lie. I think I'll leave it at that.

What are you talking about? Did you read my post at all? No, if I sell you the book "Twilight: New Moon" and tell you it is a book about Frankenstein and that it definitely isn't about vampires because a book about vampires would be terrible, that is falsely advertising. That is what happened in Mass Effect. Those quotes in the link are specific. This isn't us saying Bioware lied because they said the ending is gonna be 'awesome' or some other subjective statement. They said very specific things that turned out to be very specifically the opposite. Some of these things were said while the games were being shipped out to stores.

"[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."

"The trick is, because it?s a BioWare game, there will be more than one ending. Which means there?s more than one ending to Shepard?s story. It?s not a matter of saying, ?Here?s an optimal ending.? There?s gonna be different options, different endings."

Those were stated in an interview on Feb 28, 2012. 1 week before copies could be sold at retail. The game was finished and in shipment.

"There are many different endings. We wouldn?t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can?t
say any more than that?"

March 5, 2012 in response to the leak on the internet and word spreading the game had only 3 endings that were all the same except for color. They lied specifically to deter people away from the leaked info. That was 1 day before the release of the game.

If you see that as merely subjective, then let me know when you are in the market for a car and I will sell one to you. Just know that I can't go below asking price, the car cost me exactly whatever price I happen to relay to you. I also know just the car. After you fill out a questionnaire, its crazy how likely this car was made to your tastes even if you don't realize it.

Seeing as there are people who actually are satisfied with the ending, then yes. I do see this as a subjective matter. How do you know they didn't feel they did deliver on their promises? As I said, I knew the content of your links before you posted them in your last post. I just disagree with your stance that Bioware tells lies.

"Satisfied and "apathetic" are not the same thing. There are people that don't give a shit about story in games. A giant chicken could have shown up at the end and they wouldn't care so long as the gameplay was fun. That just means some people are easily satisified and have no standards for quality of writing. Further, some people love Bioware and will say they liked it just to throw balance against the overwhelming rage assault against their favorite company. It's not that they liked it, they are just indifferent and claim the term "like".

In the end, best case scenario Indoctrination theory is true and the game has NO ending to like. It would be like at the end of a Christmas Carol Scrooge didn't wake up. Or the "secret ending" his eyes open and roll credits. There is no freakin' ending in that scenario. Just because the story ends doesn't mean an ending was there. You get no resolution, no answers. Just a bunch of stuff that leads up to nothing.

You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.

How do I know they didn't deliver? Really? The Rachni choices makes NO damned difference. The endings are commonly being reffered to as "destroy, control, synthesis". (A.K.A endings A, B, and C.) The fact that "no bespoke ending everyone gets" but so many people are shouting "the endings are all the same and my choices didn't matter."

Your argument has no merit. So people claim they are satisfied with the ending on the internet, a point you have probably used to say that boycotters will "buy anyways". which happens to go against the grain of a large outcry across not only the internet but the game industry. This is a huge outcry of dissatified customers. If you say "I want to buy a car so long as it isn't red." SO I sell you one and then when you see it you see this:

That's Chevrolet orange buddy, I didn't sell you a red car. By the way, there are no new refunds and you can't repaint the car because I retain the rights to it. (Bioware isn't mod friendly) I'll let you pick a different color for extra money though.

Hehe, Bioware no longer feels they owe shit to the consumers in return for their money, not even an ending. So you take the "io" ("I owe") out, replace it with "EA" and you have a more fitting name for their products:

BE.A.WARE.

 

[NastoK]

While reading, a pestering fear of running into spoilers hung over me. Not pleasent.
OT: Indeed, I remember a thread about "being done with Bioware" from a couple of days ago, so I might as well just repeat what I said there.

Now...after Dragon Age 2, ME3 and THAT ending, how many of you are actually going to abandon Bioware?

Still didn't start playing ME3, and I've no idea what kind of ending could cause such controversy, but DA2 caused some as well, and I never understood why people disliked its gameplay. Even more so, I found it baffling when my friend told me he skipped DAO because he heard the gameplay was bad. Think about that for a second.

The way I see it, some people get disappointed, angered, or whatnot, they make their voices heard on the internet, and people start repeating those words. But it being the internet, people tend to go to extremes, and instead of a simple "The ending is poor" we get, well,

THAT ending

as if it were infectious.

So, yeah, I think people are forgetting themselves. So what if the ending was bad? Tribes: Vengeance felt unfinished, but even so, I love the game, and find myself playing it again and again, almost annually.

 

[Yopaz]

Sure, if you sell a faulty product believing it to be working OK and it turns out it doesn't and you get injured for it the one who sold it is responsible. However Mass Effect 3 is not a faulty product. If the story didn't end the way you want it, then that's subjective. A story with a poor ending and a car without working breaks can't really be compared by any law.

So here is where you're wrong. Their subjective statements about the game doesn't match your subjective statement of the game. That does not mean they told an objective lie. I think I'll leave it at that.

What are you talking about? Did you read my post at all? No, if I sell you the book "Twilight: New Moon" and tell you it is a book about Frankenstein and that it definitely isn't about vampires because a book about vampires would be terrible, that is falsely advertising. That is what happened in Mass Effect. Those quotes in the link are specific. This isn't us saying Bioware lied because they said the ending is gonna be 'awesome' or some other subjective statement. They said very specific things that turned out to be very specifically the opposite. Some of these things were said while the games were being shipped out to stores.

"[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."

"The trick is, because it?s a BioWare game, there will be more than one ending. Which means there?s more than one ending to Shepard?s story. It?s not a matter of saying, ?Here?s an optimal ending.? There?s gonna be different options, different endings."

Those were stated in an interview on Feb 28, 2012. 1 week before copies could be sold at retail. The game was finished and in shipment.

"There are many different endings. We wouldn?t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can?t
say any more than that?"

March 5, 2012 in response to the leak on the internet and word spreading the game had only 3 endings that were all the same except for color. They lied specifically to deter people away from the leaked info. That was 1 day before the release of the game.

If you see that as merely subjective, then let me know when you are in the market for a car and I will sell one to you. Just know that I can't go below asking price, the car cost me exactly whatever price I happen to relay to you. I also know just the car. After you fill out a questionnaire, its crazy how likely this car was made to your tastes even if you don't realize it.

Seeing as there are people who actually are satisfied with the ending, then yes. I do see this as a subjective matter. How do you know they didn't feel they did deliver on their promises? As I said, I knew the content of your links before you posted them in your last post. I just disagree with your stance that Bioware tells lies.

"Satisfied and "apathetic" are not the same thing. There are people that don't give a shit about story in games. A giant chicken could have shown up at the end and they wouldn't care so long as the gameplay was fun. That just means some people are easily satisified and have no standards for quality of writing. Further, some people love Bioware and will say they liked it just to throw balance against the overwhelming rage assault against their favorite company. It's not that they liked it, they are just indifferent and claim the term "like".

In the end, best case scenario Indoctrination theory is true and the game has NO ending to like. It would be like at the end of a Christmas Carol Scrooge didn't wake up. Or the "secret ending" his eyes open and roll credits. There is no freakin' ending in that scenario. Just because the story ends doesn't mean an ending was there. You get no resolution, no answers. Just a bunch of stuff that leads up to nothing.

You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.

How do I know they didn't deliver? Really? The Rachni choices makes NO damned difference. The endings are commonly being reffered to as "destroy, control, synthesis". (A.K.A endings A, B, and C.) The fact that "no bespoke ending everyone gets" but so many people are shouting "the endings are all the same and my choices didn't matter."

Your argument has no merit. So people claim they are satisfied with the ending on the internet, a point you have probably used to say that boycotters will "buy anyways". which happens to go against the grain of a large outcry across not only the internet but the game industry. This is a huge outcry of dissatified customers. If you say "I want to buy a car so long as it isn't red." SO I sell you one and then when you see it you see this:

That's Chevrolet orange buddy, I didn't sell you a red car. By the way, there are no new refunds and you can't repaint the car because I retain the rights to it. (Bioware isn't mod friendly) I'll let you pick a different color for extra money though.

Hehe, Bioware no longer feels they owe shit to the consumers in return for their money, not even an ending. So you take the "io" ("I owe") out, replace it with "EA" and you have a more fitting name for their products:

BE.A.WARE.

OK, so I thought I explained this to you. A car got some objective specifications where a game got something subjective. Why do you keep comparing the two? You get a car that doesn't match what you've been told, well then that is usually based on something physical that actually makes sense. A game didn't live up to your expectations is a 100% subjective matter. There are people who are satisfied with Mass Effect 3 just because you're not. It doesn't mean they are apathetic, it means they think something different than you. Your opinion of a game is subjective. The colour of a car is not. I know it sounds strange, but your opinion isn't objective. Keep writing lengthy posts, that wont change. No matter how many links and quotes you post proves that Bioware purposely screwed over their customers. They made a crappy ending. Let it go.

 

[mxfox408]

Let me make a post Bitching about the people Bitching so everyone can see that they are being childish for Bitching, while ibitch about them Bitching. If you don't like what people say or have to say why they hate it just ignore them. But I think you like hearing the responses based on creating this topic while thousands of people are still pist off.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Didn't play the game, but as far as I've read about it, people are making a way too big a fuss about it. What's wrong with the occasional bittersweet ending? Does everything need to have a happy ending?

Maybe if you'd played the game, or actually read a few of the topics discussing it, before wading in and offering up your opinion, you'd know that virtually no one gives a shit about whether or not the ending was happy.

Honestly guys, really? This is the third or fourth "I have no idea what's going on in this thread, but here's mah opinion!" post we've had on this topic. Is this a new thing? Is it "take pride in not knowing what the fuck is going on" day?

 

[Savagezion]

[small]I still read 'ME3' as 'MW3' after all those weeks it has been a big thing...[/small]

Didn't play the game, but as far as I've read about it, people are making a way too big a fuss about it. What's wrong with the occasional bittersweet ending? Does everything need to have a happy ending?

It isn't about the "bittersweetness" of the ending. Most of us figured Shepard would die. The big deal is our choices didn't matter despite that being the key selling point to the franchise. Plus the 3 endings are:

Spoiler: The Endings

1) Shepard lives but the galaxy is fucked.
2) Shepard dies and Shepard unknowingly betrayed and fucked the galaxy with blue energy.
3) Shepard dies and Shepard unknowingly betrayed and fucked the galaxy with green energy.

That's all you know and the best case scenario is that all happens in a dream. You have no idea how this pertains to any other characters, how this dream relates to events that unfolded on earth/the galaxy, nothing. All you know is while fighting the boss, Shepard got hit with a beam and had a dream about this stuff. The End.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

But what's about it what makes people so pissed then? It's just a video game.[/small]

Well, to start, can we not do the "it's just a video game" crap? We're in a gaming discussion forum. What are we meant to discuss here? World peace? The economy? Kony? It is what it is. If games and discussions regarding them are beneath you, it's possible you came to the wrong forum.

There's a lot of things wrong with it.

8. It introduces new, thematically dissonant elements in the last 10 minutes. The best analogy I could give is if you were watching Die Hard, and right after he jumps off the exploding building, it cuts to the ending of 2001: A Space Odyssey.
7. It introduces a new primary antagonist in the last 10 minutes.
6. It abandons/invalidates many themes and plot elements that had been building throughout the series to that point.
5. Shepard, Joker, and potentially other crew members as well behave in ways that are contradictory to their established characters.
4. There are numerous blatant continuity errors, ranging from the confusing (why is the Normandy in the Mass Effect field?) to the outright indefensible (why are my dead crew members stepping off the Normandy?).
3. Little to no closure for Shepard or Shepard's crew, reactions to your decision, etc. Just a tiny paragraph about how you saved the day, followed by an invitation to buy DLC.
2. Despite assurances that there would be no "A,B,C" ending nonsense, we were given exactly that.
1. From the copy paste endings with only different colored explosions to distinguish between them, to the bizarre and inexplicable Normandy escape/crash, to the sappy/crappy denouement delivered by a narcoleptic Buzz Aldrin in front of what looks to be a screen capture from a Windows screen saver, the entire last few minutes positively REEKS of slap dash cost cutting. That the rest of the game leading up to it was so good just makes it more jarring/insulting.

That's just off the top of my head. Fairly certain there's more as well. It was honestly a failure on almost every conceivable level.