Poll: Men and women being freinds

[CardinalPiggles]

You can't know, but some make it quite obvious, so fuck those people.

Also, you must underestimate the power of a mans sexual desires. Some men don't realise even when told that's what's happening. They'd piss off their real friends for that tiny 'chance' that they might get laid. It's really sad to see some people so desperate for sex that they would let people manipulate them like that.

I'm not denying that thats a thing

its just my problem with alot of peoples version of "the freindzone" is it villifies women, as if they are always totally aware and manipulating....or going out with jerks on purpose (that guy is such a jerk! I wanna get in his pants! <-said no woman ever)

I'm not saying that women are never at fault in thease situations....but it just seems that genrally its the guys problem, then when it all blows up they become bitter are start saying "hurr hur well wait untill she's old and alone..she'll come crawling back to guys like me" <-jesus man, somone here is a jerk and its not other guy she's with

Agreed, some guys use it as a scapegoat for why they got rejected, and it's not fair on the girl that just wants to be left alone.

Some girls are total bitches, some men are total dicks.

The 'FriendZone' really is a misused term. Maybe I'll stop using it.

 

[Sansha]

For pity's sake, the 'friendzone' isn't a thing. What it means is a girl thinks you're a good person and a good friend, but she's just not romantically or sexually interested in you, and if you're just bummed that she doesn't want to have sex with you, you have your answer of why you're not relationship material.

Yeah, you're a nice guy. What else? That's not enough. There's a nice guy who's also handsome and professionally successful she's into, and if your only redeemable quality is you're not a bastard, you need to take a look at yourself, and how interesting and valuable as a potential mate you are. You're standard. Start being special.

I used to just be a nice guy, then I gave up on relationships because I kept getting friendzone'd, and went back to focusing on myself. Being healthy, working smart, being happy with my own company.
I'm about to turn 25. I drive a $20,000 Mustang because I love the car, and I'm only a few months away from home ownership. Now *I* put girls in the friendzone because I can afford to be picky.

Young men get friendzoned because young women have a higher 'market value' relationship-wise thus they can afford to be picky, and they just ain't picking you.

Get the fuck over it, go out and have more to offer. Girls want a man, not someone they have to babysit or run around after, and most importantly has something to occupy his time and passions other than being a 'good and loyal' (read: clingy, emotional, lapdog, needy) boyfriend.

 

[Blow_Pop]

I'm probably attracted to about half my friends. And only half of them are opposite gender.

One of my best male friends and I have a shit ton of sexual tension between us. He has a girlfriend who is also coincidentally, one of my friends. We flirt back and forth all the time and do stupid let's see how turned on we can get each other shit. Constantly. Does it affect our actual friendship? No. We are both adults and realise that we are never going to be in any kind of situation with each other(even with the flirting and shit oh and he's also one of my drinking buddies)in which our friendship will be compromised. Even if he were to suddenly become single. We have enough control over our own bodies and hormones to not act on our urges or anything.

In regards to the article I very highly doubt asexual men and gay men feel that their female friends just want to have sex with them. I mean I'm neither asexual or a male(most of the time depending on my gender identity but that's a whole 'nother can of worms)nor do I represent all men who fall into either category or even both but from what I gather from men that I do know in one or both of those situations they typically don't. And I also tend to disagree with a lot of cracked's articles anyway. Especially since a lot of them are completely off base when they are describing the general population like the one linked.

 

[Vault101]

Some girls are total bitches, some men are total dicks.

you mean to say people act like people regardless of gender!?

what is this madness!? GET OUT!

 

[spartan231490]

... And then you told many other people that their opinions were invalid and they must be lying, because their personal experiences didn't align with your own.

No, I didn't.

Yup. Ya did. See?

I don't believe you. I've seen more than enough real life evidence to the contrary.

Thirdly, I never said that everyone always makes irrational decisions. I said that everyone eventually makes irrational decisions. You are the one who started saying always.

Fourthly, again you've put words in my mouth. I never said that people can't have friends they're attracted to. I said that when they do, problems will arise. I never said it was impossible, I admitted in my first post that I had friends I'm attracted to. I said that there will always be problems, not relationship-ending problems(not always anyway), but problems.

Eventually, someone will say or do something they shouldn't have. It's human nature. If you deny it, you'll be powerless against it.

Now that is a pretty sound argument. You know, if you ignore the mountains of evidence and personal experience that contradict it in this thread alone. How can you just dismiss ... oh, right, I forgot.

I don't believe you.

Yes, that clears everything up.

No, I didn't. I said I don't believe you. That doesn't mean your opinion is a lie or irrelevant, it means I don't believe you.

 

[spartan231490]

I know I'm not arrogant, I made a statement of opinion,

Incorrect. You made a claim about what is possible. That's not a matter of opinion. That's a claim to fact. Don't get all wishy-washy about your own claims now that you're being challenged on them.

I think it's ironic for you to call me arrogant for doing only that,

No, you're arrogant for pretending you know complete strangers' relationships better than they do themselves. There's no way you're going to back away from that with any dignity.

when people like you not only do that, but also belittle the opinions of others.

Not once did I speculate about anyone's relationships but my own- and I certainly never pretended I know anyone else's relationships better than they do.

2 The difference is, you have seen people who can drive stick shift, I've never seen any relationship where one person was attracted to another that didn't have serious problems.

Your limited experience is not our problem.

3 You can't just assume that they aren't, I was simply pointing out that just because you aren't aware of a problem doesn't mean that there isn't one.

Tut, don't repeat yourself. I already dealt with this- you don't know that there are, I don't know for sure that there aren't. But absent a reason to believe they are, assuming they are is nonsensical superstition.

5 I don't have to face anything. You're experience is no greater than mine,

But mine shows something is possible. You're just sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LAA-LAA-LAA!" because you don't want to hear it.

This isn't a debate with a right answer,

It's not a debate, but there is a right answer. If one person can do it, it's possible. And at least one person has. So you're wrong. Deal with it.

One person claims they have, that doesn't mean that they have.

 

[spartan231490]

You're making a few big mistakes. Firstly, you're claiming that you are immune to making irrational and emotional decisions. I don't believe you. No one should. Everyone makes irrational emotional decisions with fairly high regularity. Second, you're assuming that my whole argument is predicated on this. It's not. My point was that I have never seen a relationship where the two people weren't both completely unattracted to each other that didn't run into trouble eventually. You can't counter that, because it's truth. Does it necessarily prove anything? Of course not, and I never implied that it was. I was merely defending my position.

I never said I was immune to all forms of irrational decisions, I'm merely immune to gambling, sexual desire, substance abuse, thrill-seeking and several more. I've made a few irrational decisions in my life, but I've always recognised them as bad things and (so far, successfully) avoided doing them again. And I've met quite a few people (several dozen, in fact) who have been the same. To a greater or lesser degree, people can in general avoid making irrational decisions if they really want to.

Also, I can easily counter that because you're providing anecdotal evidence. I provide the same. For every relationship with mutual attraction you've witnessed that ran into trouble, I have at least one (or two) that didn't. Once you get out high school (or even college, as adolescence is getting stretched out further and further), you find that mature adults can easily ignore mutual attraction. Though I'm loath to make it a matter of age, because it's not. It's a matter of maturity. Some teenagers realise this quite soon, some thirty-somethings still behave immaturely.

It's cute that you think you're older than me, you have no idea how old I am. Pro-tip, I've been out of high school for a while. It also amuses me that you think you know how many of these relationships I've seen. You know nothing about me, that's just you being judgmental . . . again.

Thirdly, I never said that everyone always makes irrational decisions. I said that everyone eventually makes irrational decisions. You are the one who started saying always.

Nope, you did:

I've seen it time and time again, not that you can't be friends with people of the opposite gender, but these problems will always arise eventually. always.

Emphasis mine.

exactly, I said eventually. Not every single time the opportunity presents itself, but in every relationship that lasts for very long, I stand by that. You were trying to imply that I said everyone would make irrational decisions all the time. i didn't. I said every one makes irrational decisions eventually.

Fourthly, again you've put words in my mouth. I never said that people can't have friends they're attracted to. I said that when they do, problems will arise. I never said it was impossible, I admitted in my first post that I had friends I'm attracted to. I said that there will always be problems, not relationship-ending problems(not always anyway), but problems.

Eventually, someone will say or do something they shouldn't have. It's human nature. If you deny it, you'll be powerless against it.

Uh, no. If you are basing your argument on "people can sometimes be dicks" then you are conflating an obvious truth with the topic at hand. People will eventually say or do something they shouldn't have in every relationship. No relationship, not even between two asexuals, two straight men, two straight women or a gay man and a lesbian, will go on for long without both sides being dicks to each other at some point (on purpose or not). That has nothing to do with attraction but with the fallibility of human nature.

There's a difference between being a dick, and doing something you shouldn't have. Everyone is a dick at some point, and friends tend to be very understanding about that. Friends tend to be somewhat less understanding of unwanted sexual advances. Even if they are understanding about it, it still makes things awkward, way awkward, far worse than just lashing out at a friend cuz you've had a bad day. And that is about human nature, just like I said, but it's also about attraction.

 

[thejackyl]

I have a large amount of female friends, and I wouldn't say there's any sexual attraction between most of them(on my side). The ones that I have an attraction to are mostly failed relationship attempts that turned into a mutual. friendship. (i.e. friend zoned)

Would I start a relationship with any of them? Probably, provided THEY were interested(It would pretty much be "Let's give it a shot" on my end). Also as long as they were close to my age. I'm friends with a lot of my exs' parents(One so much that about a month after I broke up with the girl she came up nearly begging me to go back out with her...), and considering they're pushing 50 and 60 now...

I also have female friends that, while they are attractive, I have no attraction too.

As for the "friend zone", I don't believe in it. It's just people who are pissed because the relationship didn't work out and they blame it on not being a lover, but being a friend instead. Which I see as complete bullshit. Most relationships of mine, we started as friends, and got closer from there.

 

[Ryotknife]

Wow, the hatred in this thread is strong. This is even worse than the gun threads.

 

[spartan231490]

No, I didn't. I said I don't believe you. That doesn't mean your opinion is a lie or irrelevant, it means I don't believe you.

Hahaha what? You're doing some amazing wriggling in this thread. "I didn't say it was a lie, I just said I don't believe you."

Basically, lots of people - in this thread alone - have stated that they've had strong, healthy friendships with members of the opposite sex, even when one-sided attraction was involved. And you've dismissed all of them as liars or delusionals because you, for some reason, believe this phenomenon to be literally impossible.

I ... honestly don't know what to do with that.

One person claims they have, that doesn't mean that they have.

Hi there! *waves* That's two people now. Feel like carrying on a bit more? How many more people will you write off as liars before you consider the possibility that maybe you were wrong?

And I just realized, I honestly don't care. Believe what you want, call me a fool and a liar. It's not worth the time and effort anymore. IMHO, any friendship with a member of your preferred gender, or who prefers your gender, is far weaker than a friendship that lacks that sexual tension, all other things being equal. Make of that what you will.

 

[spartan231490]

One person claims they have, that doesn't mean that they have.

That's true.

But in order to have a reason to believe they are wrong, you need to either have fairly compelling evidence (which you do not) or be a monumentally arrogant person who is so invested in believing that your own limited experience must be the only way of life possible that you'd assume everyone who has a contradictory experience to your own doesn't even understand their own experience.

I wonder, what score did you get on the narcissism test?

Like a 9. I was surprised, I was expecting around a 13. I'm not arrogant, I've just been around long enough to know better than to trust anecdotal evidence. As I said in my other post. I really don't care anymore. I stated my opinion. Make of it what you will.

 

[Darken12]

It's cute that you think you're older than me, you have no idea how old I am. Pro-tip, I've been out of high school for a while. It also amuses me that you think you know how many of these relationships I've seen. You know nothing about me, that's just you being judgmental . . . again.

I feel confident enough to match your anecdotal evidence because I have yet to see a single relationship out of high school (and even quite a few in high school) that got ruined by sexual attraction. Maybe it's a cultural thing, here either you get sex immediately when two mutually attracted people meet or you don't. And if you don't, there's always someone else, so if this person makes you laugh, has your back and stimulates you intellectually, why fuck that up when you can get all the sex you want (and more) elsewhere?

exactly, I said eventually. Not every single time the opportunity presents itself, but in every relationship that lasts for very long, I stand by that. You were trying to imply that I said everyone would make irrational decisions all the time. i didn't. I said every one makes irrational decisions eventually.

Yes, but you're saying that it happens always (that is, in every relationship). Again, you're saying that sooner or later we will all fall prey to our genitals and fuck up a friendship. Poor, poor bisexuals (and pansexuals). They are the true foreveraloners. Come on, that's ridiculous. For a lot of people, sex isn't worth the awkwardness, it just isn't. With the easy access to porn, the availability of sex and the fact that you will eventually get a relationship with someone, good friendships end up being worth a lot more than mere sex.

There's a difference between being a dick, and doing something you shouldn't have. Everyone is a dick at some point, and friends tend to be very understanding about that. Friends tend to be somewhat less understanding of unwanted sexual advances. Even if they are understanding about it, it still makes things awkward, way awkward, far worse than just lashing out at a friend cuz you've had a bad day. And that is about human nature, just like I said, but it's also about attraction.

Let's take a bisexual. You assume that sooner or later, they will make a pass at all the friends they find attractive (which may well be all of them). This is ridiculous. Bisexuals don't work like that. I'm friends with both men and women and the idea of sex never even entered the picture. My coworkers are friends and they are all attractive. Yet almost all of them have long-term relationships or are married, but they are still friends who flirt, joke about sex and laugh it off as completely meaningless. And even the single ones (who may or may not have slept together at some point) are still friends and things aren't the slightest awkward between them. And that's the kind of case I see every day. We don't really do awkwardness here, because it's awkward. We tend to either laugh it off or just sever the relationship (which is seen as very extreme), so in reality, you can be friends with whoever you like. You can be friends with people you are or aren't attracted to (and viceversa), with people you've slept with, with people you were in long-term relationships with, and so on.

People aren't doomed to make the specific mistakes you claim they will always make. Some people might make them, but not all, and in my experience, only a minority will.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

There were some co-workers that I use to work with that were married and had friends either in the workforce or by association that were the opposite gender and they all go along harmoniously. I didn't know too much about their history or relations, but it felt like they just got along without any awkwardness or jealousy.

I have a lot of charming, cool, and interesting female friends that I find attractive. However, just because I do, it does not mean that I am interested in pursuing any kind of romantic/physical relationship with them. Simply because they are my friends and I never had any strong feelings towards them aside from camaraderie.

 

[Ieyke]

http://www.cracked.com/article_20225_6-ways-your-brain-sabotaging-your-sex-life.html

so one old issue that comes up is "men and women can't be freinds because sex" as explained in #1 on cracks article

call me niave but I figure even if there is some attraction it doesnt have to mean they can;t be friends....unless half the time its one big "freindzone" thing going on (what the hell IS the freindzone anyway?)

The "friendzone" is the stupidest bunch of bullshit ever conjured. Notice how it only happens with people you knew in elementary-highschool? The whole stigma of dating your friends in school implants this notion in peoples' (mostly girls') heads, and apparently they never have the sense to see past highschool social politics with the people who they were friends with at the time.
And then, from college onwards, you date your friends because you know them, and often they're the ONLY people you know....and it's considered utterly normal.

In fact, that's one of the most significant reasonings for anti-teenage sex - In highschool an STD will spread like wildfire because everyone is expected to date outside their social groups, but in an adult world people tend to date/sleep with people where they work, so it gets contained and just bounces around that group of people.

Just food for thought.

so I have a few questions

1. is there anyone slightly older (marrie deven) who still had freinds (and only freinds) of the oposite gender?

2. do you have freind fo the oposite gender and how do you feel?

I am a 26 year-old guy, 8/10 of my closest friends are women, as are numerous others.

I am as follows:
1 - Very in love with, but mostly friendzoned by one of them. We're very....good friends. Like we trust each other probably more than we trust anyone else, but we're not super close in a spending a lot of time together sort of way ...partially because she's always busy as all hell, and partially because our levels of enthusiasm for various interests aren't exactly equal.....it's really....complicated.

2 - Very in love with & not even REMOTELY friendzoned with one of them(the feeling is actually mutual). She's my best friend, but she's in a terrible relationship that she refuses to accept is terrible. But all the same she spends an awful lot of nights falling asleep in my arms and we do a lot of flirting.
Actively trying to sort this one out every single day.

3 - Mildly in love and friendzoned with one of them (the hottest woman I know), I asked her out and got shot down, but I regard her more as my sister, so it's oddly no issue to me. Sort of a weird vague complicated mess of feelings that boil down to me going "Yea, *shrug* I'm okay with this".

4 - Attracted to (but not so much that I'd ever act on it) one who I have no idea if I'd be friendzoned or not. But she's like a sister to me and she's getting married, so it's all moot and good anyways.

5 - Quite attracted to one (because she's one of the two hottest women I've met in real life, so it's hard not to be), but we're not super close, and I have no inclination to actually ask her out....possibly because she's just -ME- from an alternate reality where I'm a hot chick....and it's a little scary when someone thinks exactly like you...

6 - Not attracted to one, but we get along really well.....aside from that she wants me and relentlessly hits on me, and that's a bit awkward... But she knows I'm preoccupied elsewhere, so she mostly does it just to mess with me, and therefore we're fairly good friends.

7 - Not at all attracted to one who's a lesbian. We get along great in theory. But yea, not at all attracted to her....partially because she kinda looks like a guy, which I have a hard time shaking off...and that, unfortunately, makes me act a bit awkward around her.

8 - Only vaguely attracted to, but really just want to be friends with my uh....former friend's wife. Can't stand the guy anymore, but she's awesome. Known them both since before they knew each other. Kinda like a sister to me....except that it's REALLY awkward talking to someone when you can't stand her husband and you're trying not to make either of them aware of that and start needless butthurt.

9 - Not attracted to, but friends with a much younger girl (probably 19 by now?)I met at a comic book store that her dad and cousin owned. She reminds me of a younger version of #4, so we get along pretty damn well. But she lives a couple hours away, I literally never see her in real life since I moved back to Houston, and she's married.

10 - Quite attracted to a girl who's 22 that I worked with at Christmas, but she's married and her daughter just turned 1, and she's friends with #2, so attraction is beyond meaningless in this equation. We get along amazingly well and I think there's a fair chance she'll end up as one of my best friends.

11 - Quite attracted to a friend who just turned 21 that I met when I worked with her at Christmas, but our general inclinations and hobbies don't seem to mesh for the most part despite that we get along pretty well and have a mutual respect thing going, and she lives in San Antonio which is 4 hours from Houston... And I'm almost positive I'm friendzoned. So....yea. She's just a friend.

12 - Quite attracted to a friend (who I think is probably 22 by now) that I met in college. Would've probably asked her out at the time if she hadn't had a boyfriend. Now she's 2 hours away. So it's irrelevant. Don't think I was friendzoned.


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So, clearly, yes, you CAN just be friends.
Also, love and emotions and relationships can be complicated as fuck.