Poll: Men and women being freinds

[spartan231490]

The connection is obvious, that people would seek what they want(the person they're attracted to) even when it is irrational, and harmful to the relationship or to the other person(like if they're in a relationship), because human beings are emotional, selfish, irrational beings.

You seem to believe all humans are teenagers. No, not even that, because I've met several teenagers who are easily capable of not making stupid decisions. In fact, according to your theory, humans are physically incapable of not making bad decisions. According to you, it's only a matter of time before I stick my head in the freezer because I've always been slightly curious about how it'd feel like. Or before my warmth-loving friend sets his house on fire on purpose because he just can't help himself. Or that bisexual and pansexual people will end up sabotaging all their friendships because you just can't fight fate.

Wow, what a depressing (and easily disprovable) worldview you have.

Really, you're claiming that you've never made an irrational, emotional, selfish decision? Further, I never said it was a bad decisions, I said irrational. everyone makes irrational decisions almost all the time. You are making a straw man of my argument, not all irrational decisions involve you setting your house on fire, sometimes it just means punching it to see how fast your car can go, even if a deer might jump out in front of it. Or buying a lotto ticket, or playing basically any casino game, or a game of ring toss at the fair, or buying that bag of chips even when you need to lose 20 pounds, or not doing your homework.

If it's so easy to disprove the idea that all humans make irrational decisions, go ahead then, disprove it. I'm waiting. Find me one adult who never made an irrational decision. I'll wait.

 

[Vault101]

Also the friend zone thing is very real. It might not be something people do intentionally, but it happens all the time. I've been friend zoned by every girl I've made a pass at since I left school.

I dont get the freind zone thing...it implys there some magical formula of time+your behaviour which when added up incorrectly results in this thing we call "freindzone"

I always figures your into her...she's not

 

[Darken12]

Really, you're claiming that you've never made an irrational, emotional, selfish decision? Further, I never said it was a bad decisions, I said irrational. everyone makes irrational decisions almost all the time. You are making a straw man of my argument, not all irrational decisions involve you setting your house on fire, sometimes it just means punching it to see how fast your car can go, even if a deer might jump out in front of it. Or buying a lotto ticket, or playing basically any casino game, or a game of ring toss at the fair, or buying that bag of chips even when you need to lose 20 pounds, or not doing your homework.

If it's so easy to disprove the idea that all humans make irrational decisions, go ahead then, disprove it. I'm waiting. Find me one adult who never made an irrational decision. I'll wait.

One (or a few) irrational decisions in your life doesn't mean that you must always make irrational decisions. Your post said that all friendships between people of their preferred gender will always (eventually) end up with someone making an irrational decision. You are not saying that people sometimes make irrational decisions, you are saying that you will always make them eventually, that they are inescapable. That is something I can easily disprove by telling you to look around and asking you to tell me what percentage of the people you can see are currently on fire, bleeding, broken, bruised, or similarly harmed by the irrational decisions they've made. If the percentage is not 100%, you're wrong.

 

[spartan231490]

Really, you're claiming that you've never made an irrational, emotional, selfish decision? Further, I never said it was a bad decisions, I said irrational. everyone makes irrational decisions almost all the time. You are making a straw man of my argument, not all irrational decisions involve you setting your house on fire, sometimes it just means punching it to see how fast your car can go, even if a deer might jump out in front of it. Or buying a lotto ticket, or playing basically any casino game, or a game of ring toss at the fair, or buying that bag of chips even when you need to lose 20 pounds, or not doing your homework.

If it's so easy to disprove the idea that all humans make irrational decisions, go ahead then, disprove it. I'm waiting. Find me one adult who never made an irrational decision. I'll wait.

One (or a few) irrational decisions in your life doesn't mean that you must always make irrational decisions. Your post said that all friendships between people of their preferred gender will always (eventually) end up with someone making an irrational decision. You are not saying that people sometimes make irrational decisions, you are saying that you will always make them eventually, that they are inescapable. That is something I can easily disprove by telling you to look around and asking you to tell me what percentage of the people you can see are currently on fire, bleeding, broken, bruised, or similarly harmed by the irrational decisions they've made. If the percentage is not 100%, you're wrong.

False equivalence. Straw man. Just because people don't make suicidal decisions doesn't mean that they won't make irrational decisions.

 

[Darken12]

False equivalence. Straw man. Just because people don't make suicidal decisions doesn't mean that they won't make irrational decisions.

And you, my friend, are dodging the question.

While a lot of people gamble or play the lottery, not everyone does. I have never gambled in my life because I'm fully aware that it's throwing my money away (if I find myself with a surplus of money I don't have an immediate use for, I either save it or donate it). Not everyone thrill-seeks, not everyone lashes out at their bosses, not everyone is a slave to their emotions. Just some people. And even then, it's not deterministic; people can change or grow out of making constantly irrational decisions.

Remember: your argument is that everyone will always make irrational decisions. You can keep dodging all you want, but everyone reading already knows this reasoning is utterly ridiculous. Because, again: bisexuals and pansexuals. Saying that anywhere from 10 to 20% of the population can never have any friends whatsoever is so ridiculous it's practically self-defeating.

 

[Sansha]

All but one of my friends is female, and most of them I've already had sexual relations with. I don't want to actively pursue sex with them, but I don't say no when the chance arises.

The way I look at it, sex is just sex, and since we're such good friends there's a great emotional connection too without it getting... weird.

 

[axlryder]

The connection is obvious, that people would seek what they want(the person they're attracted to) even when it is irrational, and harmful to the relationship or to the other person(like if they're in a relationship), because human beings are emotional, selfish, irrational beings.

You seem to believe all humans are teenagers. No, not even that, because I've met several teenagers who are easily capable of not making stupid decisions. In fact, according to your theory, humans are physically incapable of not making bad decisions. According to you, it's only a matter of time before I stick my head in the freezer because I've always been slightly curious about how it'd feel like. Or before my warmth-loving friend sets his house on fire on purpose because he just can't help himself. Or that bisexual and pansexual people will end up sabotaging all their friendships because you just can't fight fate.

Wow, what a depressing (and easily disprovable) worldview you have.

Really, you're claiming that you've never made an irrational, emotional, selfish decision? Further, I never said it was a bad decisions, I said irrational. everyone makes irrational decisions almost all the time. You are making a straw man of my argument, not all irrational decisions involve you setting your house on fire, sometimes it just means punching it to see how fast your car can go, even if a deer might jump out in front of it. Or buying a lotto ticket, or playing basically any casino game, or a game of ring toss at the fair, or buying that bag of chips even when you need to lose 20 pounds, or not doing your homework.

If it's so easy to disprove the idea that all humans make irrational decisions, go ahead then, disprove it. I'm waiting. Find me one adult who never made an irrational decision. I'll wait.

It appears you're disregarding the context of the situation in favor of an overarching concept that's far more broadly applicable. Humans will almost inevitably make an error at some point in their lives, yes. That doesn't mean they will inevitably cheat on their partner, or inevitably ruin a friendship in pursuit of selfish goals, especially after they've grown wise enough to consciously avoid such pitfalls.

Humans are more than capable of avoiding certain errors or irrational decisions for the entirety of their lives or after a certain point in their lives.

That said, I don't know if you're trying to say ALL humans will seek out a certain partner when it's clearly harmful to do so, or if it's just a common occurrence. If you're saying the former, then you're obviously wrong.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

Also the friend zone thing is very real. It might not be something people do intentionally, but it happens all the time. I've been friend zoned by every girl I've made a pass at since I left school.

I dont get the freind zone thing...it implys there some magical formula of time+your behaviour which when added up incorrectly results in this thing we call "freindzone"

I always figures your into her...she's not

A girl sticking you in the friend zone is like keeping you around because she knows you like her, and therefore will do her favours and just generally be her *****, but at the same time keeping you interested.

A girl at work leads on pretty much every guy that she thinks she can, and they always fall for it, myself included. Soon after it's, "can you just do this for me" every 10 minutes. "Oh go on" *bats eyelids*, "please" *pretends to look sad*.

Some girls know perfectly well how to take advantage of a mans sexual desires.

 

[Vault101]

A girl sticking you in the friend zone is like keeping you around because she knows you like her, and therefore will do her favours and just generally be her *****, but at the same time keeping you interested.
.

how do we know if she's doing it on purpose ot if its in his head?

if a girl is INTENTIONALY sticking a guy in the "freindzone" that sucks but he should at least realise "hmmm perhaps this freindship is not healthy" clearly neither party wants the other as an actual "freind"

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Personally, I do not believe the friendzone is a thing. Lots of people claim it is even though it usually boils down to this: I like someone sexually, they don't they just want to be friends, WHAT A ***** FRIENDZONE. The "Friendzone" is simply something people ***** about because those that they want to bone don't want to bone them. It boils down to either A) My friend doesn't want to sex me up or B) I wanted to sex someone up but they wanted me as a friend instead for whatever reason.

And why aren't either of those two criteria sufficient to make the friendzone a "thing"? You've established it as a phenomenon.

I think we all too often ignore the way the word is used. It's almost always in the context you've indicated. It's not meant to be a scientific description of psychological processes. This leads to the confusion of thinghood by not paying attention to the category it properly belongs.

 

[Mr F.]

Personally, I do not believe the friendzone is a thing. Lots of people claim it is even though it usually boils down to this: I like someone sexually, they don't they just want to be friends, WHAT A ***** FRIENDZONE. The "Friendzone" is simply something people ***** about because those that they want to bone don't want to bone them. It boils down to either A) My friend doesn't want to sex me up or B) I wanted to sex someone up but they wanted me as a friend instead for whatever reason.

And why aren't either of those two criteria sufficient to make the friendzone a "thing"? You've established it as a phenomenon.

Because those are just accidents of life. When people use the term friendzone they act like it is a creation, a thing that is being used to manipulate people. It isn't on any level.

Those two "Things" are not enough criteria to establish the friendzone as anything more then normal human interaction combined with people being asshurt about normal human interaction going their way.

I mean, fuck, what does it really mean? "I met someone and they want to be my friend". Congratulations, You made a friend!

Seriously.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

A girl sticking you in the friend zone is like keeping you around because she knows you like her, and therefore will do her favours and just generally be her *****, but at the same time keeping you interested.
.

how do we know if she's doing it on purpose ot if its in his head?

if a girl is INTENTIONALY sticking a guy in the "freindzone" that sucks but he should at least realise "hmmm perhaps this freindship is not healthy" clearly neither party wants the other as an actual "freind"

You can't know, but some make it quite obvious, so fuck those people.

Also, you must underestimate the power of a mans sexual desires. Some men don't realise even when told that's what's happening. They'd piss off their real friends for that tiny 'chance' that they might get laid. It's really sad to see some people so desperate for sex that they would let people manipulate them like that.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Personally, I do not believe the friendzone is a thing. Lots of people claim it is even though it usually boils down to this: I like someone sexually, they don't they just want to be friends, WHAT A ***** FRIENDZONE. The "Friendzone" is simply something people ***** about because those that they want to bone don't want to bone them. It boils down to either A) My friend doesn't want to sex me up or B) I wanted to sex someone up but they wanted me as a friend instead for whatever reason.

And why aren't either of those two criteria sufficient to make the friendzone a "thing"? You've established it as a phenomenon.

Because those are just accidents of life. When people use the term friendzone they act like it is a creation, a thing that is being used to manipulate people. It isn't on any level.

On any level? Surely on the 'level' of the person experiencing it, it is. The statement "friendzone isn't a thing" is as meaningless as saying "Zeus isn't a thing". For the ancient Greeks, Zeus was very much a part of their lives and a 'thing'. The important question is what kind of thing? For the person using the word who has just experienced a humiliating rejection, it's surely not a detached description of a psychological process.

 

[SadisticFire]

I have friends of both genders and actually have a minor attraction to both of them, but that's probably teen years telling my brain "SEX SEX SEX". Though given the chance to act I would turn it down, though not because of not wanting, just fearing the repercussions of that.

 

[spartan231490]

False equivalence. Straw man. Just because people don't make suicidal decisions doesn't mean that they won't make irrational decisions.

And you, my friend, are dodging the question.

While a lot of people gamble or play the lottery, not everyone does. I have never gambled in my life because I'm fully aware that it's throwing my money away (if I find myself with a surplus of money I don't have an immediate use for, I either save it or donate it). Not everyone thrill-seeks, not everyone lashes out at their bosses, not everyone is a slave to their emotions. Just some people. And even then, it's not deterministic; people can change or grow out of making constantly irrational decisions.

Remember: your argument is that everyone will always make irrational decisions. You can keep dodging all you want, but everyone reading already knows this reasoning is utterly ridiculous. Because, again: bisexuals and pansexuals. Saying that anywhere from 10 to 20% of the population can never have any friends whatsoever is so ridiculous it's practically self-defeating.

You're making a few big mistakes. Firstly, you're claiming that you are immune to making irrational and emotional decisions. I don't believe you. No one should. Everyone makes irrational emotional decisions with fairly high regularity. Second, you're assuming that my whole argument is predicated on this. It's not. My point was that I have never seen a relationship where the two people weren't both completely unattracted to each other that didn't run into trouble eventually. You can't counter that, because it's truth. Does it necessarily prove anything? Of course not, and I never implied that it was. I was merely defending my position.

Thirdly, I never said that everyone always makes irrational decisions. I said that everyone eventually makes irrational decisions. You are the one who started saying always.

Fourthly, again you've put words in my mouth. I never said that people can't have friends they're attracted to. I said that when they do, problems will arise. I never said it was impossible, I admitted in my first post that I had friends I'm attracted to. I said that there will always be problems, not relationship-ending problems(not always anyway), but problems.

Eventually, someone will say or do something they shouldn't have. It's human nature. If you deny it, you'll be powerless against it.

 

[Vault101]

You can't know, but some make it quite obvious, so fuck those people.

Also, you must underestimate the power of a mans sexual desires. Some men don't realise even when told that's what's happening. They'd piss off their real friends for that tiny 'chance' that they might get laid. It's really sad to see some people so desperate for sex that they would let people manipulate them like that.

I'm not denying that thats a thing

its just my problem with alot of peoples version of "the freindzone" is it villifies women, as if they are always totally aware and manipulating....or going out with jerks on purpose (that guy is such a jerk! I wanna get in his pants! <-said no woman ever)

I'm not saying that women are never at fault in thease situations....but it just seems that genrally its the guys problem, then when it all blows up they become bitter are start saying "hurr hur well wait untill she's old and alone..she'll come crawling back to guys like me" <-jesus man, somone here is a jerk and its not other guy she's with

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

He very well could have; after all, it seems more comedic than anything else, so perhaps his motivations were purely comedic in nature. But I find people's responses to it more interesting that I do the actual content of the video in question. Perhaps we should chalk it up to confirmation bias eh?

that video is about as much solid evidence as my poll..in fact I'd say the poll is better because its got more answers..but whatever

You can have easily manipulated the poll results.

I wouldn't argue against being skeptical about someone's research, especially if they have a vested interest in it's outcome. But while we accept that, so too must we accept the possibility of its legitimacy. So we continue to research the subject, and if continued findings tend to trend toward a certain outcome... well... what would you think?

so if thease studies are true what should we be takning away from them? only be freinds with your own gender?

I certainly can't tell you what to take away from it. Perhaps just keep it in mind?

 

[Darken12]

You're making a few big mistakes. Firstly, you're claiming that you are immune to making irrational and emotional decisions. I don't believe you. No one should. Everyone makes irrational emotional decisions with fairly high regularity. Second, you're assuming that my whole argument is predicated on this. It's not. My point was that I have never seen a relationship where the two people weren't both completely unattracted to each other that didn't run into trouble eventually. You can't counter that, because it's truth. Does it necessarily prove anything? Of course not, and I never implied that it was. I was merely defending my position.

I never said I was immune to all forms of irrational decisions, I'm merely immune to gambling, sexual desire, substance abuse, thrill-seeking and several more. I've made a few irrational decisions in my life, but I've always recognised them as bad things and (so far, successfully) avoided doing them again. And I've met quite a few people (several dozen, in fact) who have been the same. To a greater or lesser degree, people can in general avoid making irrational decisions if they really want to.

Also, I can easily counter that because you're providing anecdotal evidence. I provide the same. For every relationship with mutual attraction you've witnessed that ran into trouble, I have at least one (or two) that didn't. Once you get out high school (or even college, as adolescence is getting stretched out further and further), you find that mature adults can easily ignore mutual attraction. Though I'm loath to make it a matter of age, because it's not. It's a matter of maturity. Some teenagers realise this quite soon, some thirty-somethings still behave immaturely.

Thirdly, I never said that everyone always makes irrational decisions. I said that everyone eventually makes irrational decisions. You are the one who started saying always.

Nope, you did:

I've seen it time and time again, not that you can't be friends with people of the opposite gender, but these problems will always arise eventually. always.

Emphasis mine.

Fourthly, again you've put words in my mouth. I never said that people can't have friends they're attracted to. I said that when they do, problems will arise. I never said it was impossible, I admitted in my first post that I had friends I'm attracted to. I said that there will always be problems, not relationship-ending problems(not always anyway), but problems.

Eventually, someone will say or do something they shouldn't have. It's human nature. If you deny it, you'll be powerless against it.

Uh, no. If you are basing your argument on "people can sometimes be dicks" then you are conflating an obvious truth with the topic at hand. People will eventually say or do something they shouldn't have in every relationship. No relationship, not even between two asexuals, two straight men, two straight women or a gay man and a lesbian, will go on for long without both sides being dicks to each other at some point (on purpose or not). That has nothing to do with attraction but with the fallibility of human nature.