Pointless Gender Stereotyping in my opinion. Generalising like this is never going to be correct.
Poll: Men need to find out that it's good to talk
- Thread starter chiefohara
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... people seem to be making me out to be more sinister than i actually am.riotwraith said:
I posted an article about men not talking enough, and now a few people are trying to nip the conversation about it in the bud
As for your point about basketball and skateboarding... Depending on the context that conversation would be okay. It would be okay if you were a marketing executive or a basketball/skateboard salesman or company. People would permit you to talk about your marketing strategy or your percieved customer base. As long as people know you intend no harm or reinforcement of negative stereotpyes i'd imagine they'd be happy to let you discuss.
If it was a KKK member, well then they would know there was a malicious agenda behind that argument.
The same applies for what i posted here... Im not trying to reinforce any gender stereotypes or set feminism back 20 years... im just curious why men don't open up more. Its something my girlfriend has (and indeed my ones in the past) have complained to me about. Another reason i wanted to post this article is because of this
"Suicide accounts for l in 100 deaths but the majority of those are men. A worrying recent trend is the increasing rate of suicide among younger men (a trend not seen among young women). The majority of these men have not asked for help before their deaths. The suicide rate in men also increases in those aged between 65 and 75 years. In contrast, the suicide rate in women varies less with age.
The higher suicide rate among men is a worldwide phenomenon. A few exceptions to the general rule exist, for example, among elderly women in Hungary and in some Asian countries. The reasons why men are more likely to kill themselves than women are complex and ill-understood. However, several pointers help our understanding"
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/facts/depressionsuicide.htm
I inadvertantly saved a buddy's life by asking him out for a pint a few months ago, he was about to kill himself when i rang... The man felt he couldn't talk to anyone, and he kept appologising to me when he started opening up to me (alcohol helped). The man felt trapped in not being able to talk to anyone about how he felt and nearly topped himself.
Can't say I agree with that.
It all depends on the person we are talking about.
I'm a male, I have a lot of close friends both male and female.
Some of my friends are like me, they talk freely about their emotions and experiences.
Other's don't like to do so, so they don't......unless I make them.
I have male friends with whom I have a largely emotional connection, we don't share a lot of interests.....but we do experience things similarly and have similar emotional reactions to situations in our lives.
So that becomes the basis for our friendship and we talk about those things.
On the other side: I have female friends who never speak of emotional things (least not to me)
and subject of discussion is usually politics or ethics or something like that.
This go's for both sexes in my social circle.....people differ....a lot.
Making a segregation based on gender seems........"old fashioned" to me.
Mind: I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of men who need to open up and start talking
(I can see this all around me) but the same go's for a lot of women I know, and since I know a lot of males who are able to freely discuss their emotions I dont see how this is truly decided by gender.
I'd say it's more of a cultural thing. Nurture rather then nature I suppose.
My dad taught me never to fear my own emotions and to express them freely when I feel the need.
I don't see how that has anything to do with me being a male.
It all depends on the person we are talking about.
I'm a male, I have a lot of close friends both male and female.
Some of my friends are like me, they talk freely about their emotions and experiences.
Other's don't like to do so, so they don't......unless I make them.
I have male friends with whom I have a largely emotional connection, we don't share a lot of interests.....but we do experience things similarly and have similar emotional reactions to situations in our lives.
So that becomes the basis for our friendship and we talk about those things.
On the other side: I have female friends who never speak of emotional things (least not to me)
and subject of discussion is usually politics or ethics or something like that.
This go's for both sexes in my social circle.....people differ....a lot.
Making a segregation based on gender seems........"old fashioned" to me.
Mind: I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of men who need to open up and start talking
(I can see this all around me) but the same go's for a lot of women I know, and since I know a lot of males who are able to freely discuss their emotions I dont see how this is truly decided by gender.
I'd say it's more of a cultural thing. Nurture rather then nature I suppose.
My dad taught me never to fear my own emotions and to express them freely when I feel the need.
I don't see how that has anything to do with me being a male.
You're not trying to reinforce gender stereotypes, you're just curious why these stereotypes are all exactly true?chiefohara said:
Jeez, I really don't mean to be insulting, but if you respond with another wall-o-text like that I'm not even going to read it. There's really no reason for less than one paragraph of information to take up my entire monitor.
Good post. I particularly like the questioning of where the article draws the line between 'confiding' and 'gossip'. I would add that the stereotyped man here, while maybe not talking freely about his emotions and weeping left right and centre does communicate about these issues but in a much more subtle way. It's the way they talk about their wife rather than what they say, the emotions they display rather than they say they are feeling.riotwraith said:
That was insulting.riotwraith said:
I took the time to answer your question honestly and respectfully and you can't be arsed to take one minute to read it.
Go away.
Yup. That describes me pretty much perfectly. As well as the majority of males I know well.
At the end of the day, confiding in male friends would just feel horribly awkward. Guys like to vent as much as anyone else, but some of us don't feel comfortable doing so.
EDIT: Also, to those of you playing the "OMG Sexism!" card, I'm pretty sure the OP is just inquiring into the existence of these behaviours rather then setting out to perpetuate gender stereotypes for nefarious ends.
At the end of the day, confiding in male friends would just feel horribly awkward. Guys like to vent as much as anyone else, but some of us don't feel comfortable doing so.
EDIT: Also, to those of you playing the "OMG Sexism!" card, I'm pretty sure the OP is just inquiring into the existence of these behaviours rather then setting out to perpetuate gender stereotypes for nefarious ends.
so a woman's friends are more emotionally reliable? woop de fricking doo, in my 2 years at college I've seen a female friend of mine fall in and out with her friends time after time, in the mean time, I've hit no problem with mine, if i want to talk I talk, why is there a stigma about a man having problems, we all have problems, it's not the end of the world, and if they laugh or jest at you, well then there not really your friends are they?
When i went to university one of the main problems i quickly faced was not having any friends to confide with, and with MSN not working i couldn't talk to my old friends either. I felt totally cut off and alone. I ended up writing poetry and writing long rants about how i felt and such, because i had nobody to talk to for most of the 1st term. Fortunantly now, i have at least one friend at university who i can confide with. Baiscally it doesn't matter what your gender is, you need friends.
Now i am at home, i don't have a problem finding friends to confide with, and i think the same goes for most other young people. What the author is reffering to is older adult males who are in full time jobs. Men often have to commute long distances or move away to pursue job opportunities, and especially once they are married with kids, lose touch with their old friends. I think women perhaps, who are more inclined to work half time and make friends through the school's their kids go to, can foster a better social life than men can who spend most of their time in a work enviroment.
Now i am at home, i don't have a problem finding friends to confide with, and i think the same goes for most other young people. What the author is reffering to is older adult males who are in full time jobs. Men often have to commute long distances or move away to pursue job opportunities, and especially once they are married with kids, lose touch with their old friends. I think women perhaps, who are more inclined to work half time and make friends through the school's their kids go to, can foster a better social life than men can who spend most of their time in a work enviroment.
It doesn't matter whether it's harmful in and of itself. I get annoyed when people deny the presence of social pressure. They tend to be too sheltered. Things need to be looked at as a whole, and how people will react to them, not on their own merits.Dags90 said:
If Microsoft had looked at the X-Box on its own merits, they would have shut down production immediately, because they were selling at below cost; instead they aimed for market share in order to recoup the losses through increased game sales. Valve constantly releases new content, for no additional cost. On its own merits, that's a waste of resources, but people have reacted and it's gained a lot of goodwill among players.
In regard to the actual matter at hand, stereotypes have mostly been broken by the necessity of war. Blacks gained some better treatment during the American Civil war, because they needed the bodies to win, and women were freed from household slavery when war required the extra production.
It seems like stereotypes are sustained not by outside factors, but purely by themselves. So long as children are brought up to believe they need to act in a certain way, they often will; until they're forced to break them. I don't want to revert back to them; it wouldn't be a good prospect for me, and I don't want another world war to be necessary to crack it again.
Also, if we're going to talk about ideologies, I'm against the idea of judging people based on factors that they cannot help. It's better to unbiasedly judge an entire city of people who conform for the sake of ten who do not.
In High School I have maintained the same 2 best friends for 4 years (when I met them), and that's basically the same for all the guys I know. The girls I know swap friendship groups every few months, ***** about each other constantly and spend most of the time miserable.chiefohara said:
The same thing can be said with my step Dad and Mum; he's kept the same group of mates for ages, and my Mum has had numerous fallings out with friends of hers.
I know that if I told a friend of mine something they'd keep it to themselves; they might not be able to help like a girl's friend (see: interfere, *****, fall out with each other) but I don't necessarily need them to.
So you tell me, are they real friendships at all?
Well, as far as I know, most women are a lot less trustworthy than most men. They talk non-stop, so eventually, whatever you told them will get out, even if it's a secret. Men on the other hand, when they talk, it's not about their friends, it's about stuff like sports, work etc. so it's always a plus if you don't want the whole world knowing your problems.
And yeah, as someone said, usually, more friends = more trouble, besides most friends come and go.
I tend to keep my shit to myself but it's not because I don't trust people or whatever (even tho I don't trust anyone but myself) but because I don't care about talking to people about my problems, I don't need to confess or whatever, my shit is my shit, I'm not gonna bother others with it and besides, people rarely tell me stuff that I hadn't already thought about, so it's pretty pointless.
And for the article thingy, bah, it's not GOOD to talk, it's good to not CARE too much. Whenever I have a problem, I fix it as fast as possible, I don't think about it non-stop, that wouldn't be efficient.
And why the hell are you guys talking about sexism? I thought people here would be more enlightened than that.
Stating the obvious isn't sexism. Saying women rely more on feelings than men is like saying women have boobs, it is FACT, sure there are exceptions, but that goes for men too, for example, men watch sports, of course not ALL men watch sports, we're not talking about a sect here, people, we're talking about genders and I for one, don't watch sports. When we generalize, we're saying "most men/women", not all of them, that would be impossible and let's not forget that's a phrase that should only be used when talking from what we know for a fact, not from our asses.
Why the hell does it always have to come down to sexism/racism/other such bullshit that only burn bridges?
I have black (no, not African American, that term is shit) friends, I call them niggas, and they call me something I dunno how to translate in english (about whites) and we all laugh about it, so what? Besides, in a way we all come from Africa, so screw racism. Whoever is offended when people assign them to a race/gender is a dumbass.
People need to learn comprehension, it's not the words we use that matter, it's their meaning, in my book, nigga isn't any more offensive than black. African American is tho, in the way that it offends MY intelligence when someone uses it, it's just a stupid buzz word used to set us apart, take the term apart and analyse it, it's making some assumptions that could very well be very wrong (African + American).
It's actually very easy to understand, I live in France, so are my black friends African-Americans? NO, not a single one of them ... most of them aren't even africans, FFS !
Drop that shit.
Edit:
I just saw the stereotype posts *Sigh*.
When will people get that we're all stereotypes? We've ALL got stuff in common, being unique is impossible, that would mean we would each be completely different one from another, but since we're all alive, even that fact would give us something in common, so we're not unique, not to mention, for example, here, on the Escapist, we've got even a lot more in common than just life.
No one is unique, we've ALL got stuff in common, a LOT of stuff even (most of us have cells/TVs/PCs/etc/etc/etc) Being a stereotype doesn't mean anything, even I'm a stereotype, I'm white, got brown hair and eyes and from what I know, most white people share these traits ...
It's the same thing for racism and sexism, they all fall under the bullshit category
And yes, 99% of frenchies drink wine (that I hate) and eat cheese (I love some of it).
Drop this shit too.
*Is thinking about changing his name to "Captain Obvious"*
And yeah, as someone said, usually, more friends = more trouble, besides most friends come and go.
I tend to keep my shit to myself but it's not because I don't trust people or whatever (even tho I don't trust anyone but myself) but because I don't care about talking to people about my problems, I don't need to confess or whatever, my shit is my shit, I'm not gonna bother others with it and besides, people rarely tell me stuff that I hadn't already thought about, so it's pretty pointless.
And for the article thingy, bah, it's not GOOD to talk, it's good to not CARE too much. Whenever I have a problem, I fix it as fast as possible, I don't think about it non-stop, that wouldn't be efficient.
And why the hell are you guys talking about sexism? I thought people here would be more enlightened than that.
Stating the obvious isn't sexism. Saying women rely more on feelings than men is like saying women have boobs, it is FACT, sure there are exceptions, but that goes for men too, for example, men watch sports, of course not ALL men watch sports, we're not talking about a sect here, people, we're talking about genders and I for one, don't watch sports. When we generalize, we're saying "most men/women", not all of them, that would be impossible and let's not forget that's a phrase that should only be used when talking from what we know for a fact, not from our asses.
Why the hell does it always have to come down to sexism/racism/other such bullshit that only burn bridges?
I have black (no, not African American, that term is shit) friends, I call them niggas, and they call me something I dunno how to translate in english (about whites) and we all laugh about it, so what? Besides, in a way we all come from Africa, so screw racism. Whoever is offended when people assign them to a race/gender is a dumbass.
People need to learn comprehension, it's not the words we use that matter, it's their meaning, in my book, nigga isn't any more offensive than black. African American is tho, in the way that it offends MY intelligence when someone uses it, it's just a stupid buzz word used to set us apart, take the term apart and analyse it, it's making some assumptions that could very well be very wrong (African + American).
It's actually very easy to understand, I live in France, so are my black friends African-Americans? NO, not a single one of them ... most of them aren't even africans, FFS !
Drop that shit.
Edit:
I just saw the stereotype posts *Sigh*.
When will people get that we're all stereotypes? We've ALL got stuff in common, being unique is impossible, that would mean we would each be completely different one from another, but since we're all alive, even that fact would give us something in common, so we're not unique, not to mention, for example, here, on the Escapist, we've got even a lot more in common than just life.
No one is unique, we've ALL got stuff in common, a LOT of stuff even (most of us have cells/TVs/PCs/etc/etc/etc) Being a stereotype doesn't mean anything, even I'm a stereotype, I'm white, got brown hair and eyes and from what I know, most white people share these traits ...
It's the same thing for racism and sexism, they all fall under the bullshit category
And yes, 99% of frenchies drink wine (that I hate) and eat cheese (I love some of it
).Drop this shit too.
*Is thinking about changing his name to "Captain Obvious"*
I talk to my friend, and my girl friend, who is the girlfriend of my friend... seeing it?
yeah, I talked to my GF when our relationship was failing, it was her who wouldn't talk. Bloody introverts...
I've seriously told so much to my friends, I'll talk about anything if I'm having trouble with it. I prefer to get things fixed sooner rather than later.
yeah, I talked to my GF when our relationship was failing, it was her who wouldn't talk. Bloody introverts...
I've seriously told so much to my friends, I'll talk about anything if I'm having trouble with it. I prefer to get things fixed sooner rather than later.
I have a best friend of over 10 years, and my fiancee, who is also my best friend. That's it. I have work "mates" and aquaintances, but they are the only people I would call real friends. Then again, I am intraverted somewhat.
I find it very easy to talk about pretty much anything to anyone, I am easy to get along with, but my business is my business, and I dont like to burden others with my shit, I prefer to sort out my shit and get on with it.
I find it very easy to talk about pretty much anything to anyone, I am easy to get along with, but my business is my business, and I dont like to burden others with my shit, I prefer to sort out my shit and get on with it.
No, doesn't describe me as much. I think that articles pretty sexist, stereotyping men personally. I have many friends, who are friends just for the camaraderie as you put it OP, but I also have a close-knit group of main, best friends who I open up to emotionally because, well, they're my best friends.
Besides, in my experience, having only a small group of friends doesn't get you far. Both of my sisters have only had small groups of friends until recently, and they've been switching to different groups at least once every two years, the relationship falling apart due to backstabbing, and just all parties moving to another group of friends.
I, on the male hand, kept nearly all of my friends for as long as I've known them, two of them since I was born, basically.
Besides, in my experience, having only a small group of friends doesn't get you far. Both of my sisters have only had small groups of friends until recently, and they've been switching to different groups at least once every two years, the relationship falling apart due to backstabbing, and just all parties moving to another group of friends.
I, on the male hand, kept nearly all of my friends for as long as I've known them, two of them since I was born, basically.
I was raised to not unburden myself on other people or to quote my father, "Don't cry like a little girl, be a man." So yes I do tend to keep almost everything bottled up inside, but that's healthy right? Did John Wayne cry? HELL NO!!!
I suppose I am one of the people refered to in the OP. I have many friends, most of which are male, but only 3 or 4 really close friends I would confide with my emotions, and most of the time I dont bother. I dont really see the point of sharing things that have little to do with other people.
well im a guy(14) and i dont tell any of my freinds about how depresd i get and how i see a counsiler or how i do so terable in school because i dont want them worrying about me or thinking that theay should try to cheer me up or anything because them just being them and talking and doing the shit we do together cheers me up and helps me out heeps
I have no female friends that I would ever confine in. And if I retrace my steps through life then I can only recall one girl that ever made the close acquaintance list. She ended up cutting me loose when the time for boys came around. Hrmphf. *****.
Personally, I'd rather have a heart to heart with my male compatriots. None of them seem to mind, and they frequently turn to me when needed. They take me serious, I take them serious, and when push comes to shove we can have a good fight and then settle it again a day later. No grudges.
Try that with a woman. /hiss
Personally, I'd rather have a heart to heart with my male compatriots. None of them seem to mind, and they frequently turn to me when needed. They take me serious, I take them serious, and when push comes to shove we can have a good fight and then settle it again a day later. No grudges.
Try that with a woman. /hiss