Poll: No-kids-allowed movement. Yay or nay?

[xmbts]

That's the whole point: parenting IS difficult. Maybe those asshats having babies should think of that before polluting the gene pool with entitled s#!ts that they're too lazy or too incompetent to raise.

By the way, this is a problem that's pretty much exclusive to white folks. In two days in America or Europe, you see more obnoxious brats than you see in a year in Asia. Tiger moms ftmfw.

THIS.

High fivez?

Sorry to take you off your pedestal there but the world isn't perfect, people have kids when they aren't ready and since kids are human beings with the same rights as you me or anybody else they can't just be shuffled out of an area based on arbitrary information. That is segregation.

Also you don't know the first thing about kids. As individuals children have a habit of doing things, whether or not the parents want or taught them to. Stop assuming that one kid having a meltdown means that that is a bad parent because I can safely bet that at some point every single person in here has, at least once, done the same exact thing when you were a kid.

Yeah, rubbish.

I'm half German, half Korean. At the doctor's a while ago (in Germany), there was a mother and her five year old in the waiting room with the kid running around the table, stepping on people's toes, knocking stuff over and being generally an obnoxious little shit.

When I lost my patience and kindly asked her to rein her sprog in a bit, do you know what she said? That she could hardly tell such a young child what to do.

My jaw dropped to the floor below.

Fuck you, lady. When I was five, I could read and write in two languages. Kids at that age know the difference between right and wrong, and if you raise them right and teach them to behave respectfully, they will. I wasn't docile or acquiescent by any means; but if I had behaved like that, my (Korean) mother would have slapped me into the next dimension on some Stargate shit. I would have woken up under a pyramid looking at two suns and learnt my God damned lesson. But it wasn't necessary, because some cultures recognise that the peace and quiet of a dozen sick people waiting for their doctor is more important than the right of some dumb heifer to have kids without knowing how to raise them properly.

That's the problem with white people. They always kowtow to the dumbest among them instead of trying to raise everybody up. Are there shit parents in Asia? Sure. But generally speaking, kids there are MUCH better behaved than kids here, let alone in America.

By the way, bullshit on kids having the same rights as you or I. Can they negotiate contracts? Get married? Drive a car? Choose their own place of residence? Vote? Go out after dark by themselves?

Didn't think so. Most countries don't consider kids full citizens, and in many countries, kids under seven years of age have next to no rights whatsoever. When a five year old damages your car, you take the parents to court.

Okay, there's one...now how about you provide about a billion more examples and maybe that will matter.

And yeah kids have rights, because, you know, they happen to be human beings. Just because they don't enjoy many of the privileges of adulthood doesn't mean they aren't entitled to the same basic rights as you.

Honestly I don't know what's more childish, the notion that all kids are bratty noisemakers, or how big a deal you're making over having your moment spoiled because someone inadvertently irritated you by having the gall to exist in your presence.

 

[Therumancer]

I support the idea.

Among other things I think this is a logical reaction to the "oh, think of the children" movement. If you ban children from a lot of facilities entirely, then you don't have to worry about the kids being exposed to things people feel they shouldn't see, and so on.

Truthfully I do not think it's a matter of parents not disaplining their children, so much as the simple fact that kids have always been noisy and obnoxious, and we were all probably that way ourselves at one point.

Having "kid free zones" strikes me as being perfectly reasonable. Yes, it DOES limit the mobility of parents, but they always have the option of hiring a baby sitter or making other arragements, and really if they can't do that, then maybe they shouldn't be heading out to the movies or whatever to begin with. The lack of abillity to make those arrangements probably says somethig about the suitability and preparation of the parents, and society shouldn't have to hold the bag for that.

Now, to an extent I feel like a villain in a Disney movie, but I can see why this trend exists, and I can't entirely fault it.

I'll also point out one final thing (well sort of repete it), it's not just poorly raised kids that make noise and are obnoxious, it's ALL kids periodically. Kids are not small, dumb, adults, they are wired substantially differntly as they develop. Babies can't help but cry, and small children by definition behave the way they do because they are needy and undisaplined. A good parent who DOES disapline their children in public and so on to reinforce the proper behaviors is going to make noise/create a scene by doing so.

On a final note I would personally extent such policies to tweens and teenagers to an extent as they bring their own problems with them. I have no real issue with the idea of "adult only" facilities that aren't dedicated to sexual material, I also tend to think there will always be plenty of "general audiences" locations and facilities for the teens. Among other things, such a general policy would help deal with issues like tweens getting into "R" rated movies and the like, which has always been an issue with our rating systems. Control the admission and it becomes easier to police.

I'll also take it a step further and say that I hope we start seeing adult only servers for MMORPGs and the like. While there are plenty of immature adult players/griefers/trolls in MMOs, it's pretty bloody obvious the influance the kids have, especially when you look at the trends and how the atmosphere changes based on things like school schedules. If your on an East Coast server for example, the enviroment is far differant in the morning and late at night than in the few hours from when kids get home from school, and before bed. There are jerks at other times, but that's when the play experiences nosedives, you you have kiddies running around so you have more duelling in the streets, killstealing, channel trolling, griefing, and other behaviors. Sure there are mature teens and such, but the nature of a mass business means you can't get to know them all personally and decide which ones to admit and whiuch ones not to (with all the doors that opens up).

I know "Second Life" had a regular version, and a "kiddie" version... at least for a while. I think games like the upcoming "The Old Republic" would benefit from adults only servers, or from creating a few "kiddie servers" on which to place everyone below the age of 18.

 

[Alexias_Sandar]

Frankly? This entire idea is a very poor choice. You can't refuse service because someone's of a gender or race or religion you don't like. Being the wrong age without an actual reason such as safety should be no different. When parents with children suffer a new form of discrimination this is a poor thing indeed.

 

[jowo96]

It's fair as long as it doesn't go too far. Kids have to be catered for by someone, it wouldn't be fair on the families to exclude kids everywhere. But this trend is simply creating a substancial market for places that allow kids. So I doubt kids will go uncatered.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

I'm fine with it, as parents have shown time and time again that they are totally incapable of fulfilling their responsibility to keep the blasted things under control. First class cabins and fancy restaurants need to maintain a certain atmosphere if they expect people to pay for them, after all.

 

[Queen Michael]

I support this legislation. While I don't have much of a problem with kids or screaming babies, I understand that other people do. If you've got a baby that might yell or older kids that might bother other customers, you should know better than to bring them places like restaurants anyway, so only the inconsiderate people will have to change their behavious because of the legislation.

 

[smythn]

I'm probably going to be the only one to say this but I'm opposed to this rule, because I remember how much fun I had being a little scrote when I was younger and none of you can say that you felt otherwise.

I agree that there are some places that kids shouldn't be allowed to go, but some of these replies are quite extreme, "get a boat or a train" because you don't want someone elses kid screaming. In all fairness they should be put to sleep on planes and shiznit, seeing as coming home from a holiday once with an ear infection, with the loudest, most energetic kid in the world sitting in front of me wasn't the most fun I've ever had; but on the other hand, i have a neice who has just turned two, and she is the funniest child I know because she specialises in the art of trolling from a young age (calling her dad mummy frustrates him to no end).

in general I say Nay to the rule, but then again, under certain circumstances I wish it was legal to carry chloroform and use it freely.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

I agree with the ban, but it shouldn't be necessary. It all comes down to discipline; unfortunately, most children are raised without any.

 

[blase]

There are child-friendly bars, restaurants, cafes and malls. God bless them. They chose another way of attracting customers. I will avoid them like fire but some parents will be encouraged to visit them. This is all fine.

Someone recognized that people with kids need places they can go and relax a bit (yes, that includes not worrying about offending or disturbing others). Other business owners recognized that many people consider behavior which is in the end pretty typical for children of a certain age, annoying.

Discrimination is a problem when you start refusing service to people who are not affecting others in any way. Like not smoking. Or not bringing little kids to places where certain manners are required.

 

[Taldeer]

Trouble is some parents don't realize they need to change a lot of things in their lives once they've reproduced. This summer I went to the seaside, in what used to be the most bohemian place on the Romanian beach. For decades youth have been gathering there to live free of responsibility, money, care and even clothes, although that practice has been dwindling slowly. I've been going there myself for the last five or six years. Lo and behold, this year, it was teaming with families. Even at the camping site where I set my tent up for almost an entire fortnight, there was a couple being dragged around by their one-or-two-year-old. He would rap on everyone's tents in the early morning, he would touch my guitar and put his hands all over the strings while I tried to play, out of everyone's way, he would scream to high heaven every time a bloody fly buzzed by. And to all of this, his mother's response would be "Please tell me if he bothers you!", like she would honestly expect a person who tries to regard themselves as being a decent, polite human being to say "Yes, in fact he bothers me to no end, I find him annoying, repulsive and oft times disgusting, and honestly I find your behavior and your very presence here absolutely impossible to explain, barring stupidity." Why would parents so that? There are countless other resorts on by the sea which are well known for being great places for families to enjoy themselves in. There used to be this just one place for students, hippies, rockers and so forth, where all of us could just chill out. Not anymore, apparently.

tl;dr - Parents are not ready to accept their lives change completely once they reproduce, and they can't deal with the fact that children will not fit into their previous routines, be they everyday activities or yearly vacation time.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

snip.

And yes that includes the person I quoted I doubt was as perfect as he lets on.
.

Oh hells no! Haha. If they took me to anywhere other than a restaurant or pub I was just as madcap and obnoxious as any other child. I just apparently knew that restaurants were for quiet time.

Probably the promise of food keeping me quiet.

 

[cbert]

This wouldn't be a problem if people weren't so self absorbed as to want to create more of themselves in the world.

^^^ This

To be fair, I've met some extraordinarily well-behaved kids in my day. There are a select few that are totally fine by me in the airplane or movie theater.

For that reason, I oppose the ban. Age-ism is discrimination - blaming a class of citizens for some bad apples is indefensible.

 

[The Funslinger]

I'm in approval of it. If you've paid first class, its like paying for the airline to make your trip as relaxing and stress free as possible. How can they do that with kids ruining that.

Ideally though, they should make a first class for people with kids. That way parents aren't left out. Why you would pay that much to take your kid on first class anyway baffles me. In fact, I think having kid free zones would work really well. Take one theater room and make it a kid free zone. Charge an extra fiver for it. All the people who want to go watch "The A Team" without kids screaming over it (yeah, my experience, it sucked) can go see that and in an ideal world they can use the extra money to have dedicated rooms for people with kids.

ITS GENIUS I SAY.

I had an idea along those lines once. Basically, all restaurants have to have a section sealed off by an airlock door (like the sort on the channel tunnel train) and soundproofed walls. This is the "parent's section." All parents with a child under the age of eight must eat in there.

Edit: In all honesty, when I have a kid I'll probably film his temper tantrum, and then when he's in a stable mood, show it to him, laugh at him and say "this is you. You're making a complete fool of yourself." Embarrassment worked surprisingly well on me as a kid. That, and spanking. Modern parents are pathetic, it would seem.

 

[Koroviev]

I can definitely support a no kids policy when it comes to places like movie theaters, airplane's first-class sections, and fancier restaurants. However, I think things like grocery stores and big-box stores are bit a much, especially since most are big places where you can move away from it or finish your business quickly, as opposed to other locations where you couldn't.

Though I think the biggest problem today is parents and discipline. You know what would stop a tantrum being thrown by that brat over there? A spanking. Or a slap on the head. But no, that's pretty much child abuse nowadays. I'd be scared to do anything like that to my kid in public these days, for fear of some overly-concerned bystander calling the police because I'm abusing a child.

Not in the long run. Corporal punishment is a short-term solution. The child does not learn that what he did was wrong, but that it is wrong if he does it in your presence. However, he does learn that hitting others is appropriate if you disagree with their behavior. Time-outs are more effective because they are a natural consequence of displaying poor group dynamics. In other words, if you bother other members of a group, then they will expel you from said group and, moreover, you will not be welcomed back until you are willing to cooperate and make amends. Parents are responsible from removing children from public when they start to annoy others. Parents unwilling to fulfill this role have no business bringing their children in public.

I totally agree that other such punishments like time-outs can be very effective and in lots of cases, preferable to physical punishment. However, I do believe there most definitely is a place for corporal punishment. I for one, was disciplined physically growing up, it was uncommon, but enough to know what might happen if I did something wrong. And that did not teach me that hitting others was an appropriate response to disagreements, and I doubt most kids would learn that as a result of spankings either.
Physical punishments reinforce the idea that bad deeds are punished, and if you want to avoid being punished, don't be bad. Especially at younger ages, physical punishments like spankings, combined with an explanation of why what they did was wrong, get the point across much quicker, much easier, and much clearer than time-outs do.

Studies do not support [http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/151/8/761] such anecdotal efficacy. Corporal punishment is correlated with various undesirable outcomes, including a higher likelihood of parents being physically abusive [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080827210528.htm], lower IQ scores [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090924231749.htm] and, in a study [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915100941.htm] of low-income children who received such punishment, aggressive behavior and, again, poorer cognitive development.

 

[The Funslinger]

News flash: Parenting is kind of difficult, before you go on complaining about how some noisy brat ruined your evening think about having to tend to that kid 24/7 and cut them some slack. You didn't choose to be a parent and that's your business but you can't just make people do something just because you don't feel comfortable with them.

That's the whole point: parenting IS difficult. Maybe those asshats having babies should think of that before polluting the gene pool with entitled s#!ts that they're too lazy or too incompetent to raise.

By the way, this is a problem that's pretty much exclusive to white folks. In two days in America or Europe, you see more obnoxious brats than you see in a year in Asia. Tiger moms ftmfw.

I am seeing less and less children around in America. In my opinion, that's a good thing.

In my village (in the middle of Yorkshire, England) there's a bit of a generation gap. Like children, teenagers, twenties, thirties, forties, then suddenly seventies in terms of population. This is because back in the sixties and seventies, my now rather quaint holiday village was a full on heroin/cocain/pot den. Just makes you think, the consequential gap in generations of parents must have been blissful in the aftermath.