Poll: Non-Heterosexuality: A Possibly Unpopular Opinion

[dreadedcandiru99]

Long story short: no, gay people shouldn't have to hide who they are. As for the bigots, we may not like what they have to say, but they're within their rights to say it, and the rest of us are within our rights when we tell them to go fuck themselves up the ass with a rusty railroad spike.

(Besides, I'm in favor of bigots revealing themselves in public. It's easier to keep tabs on them that way.)

 

[bobknowsall]

and? the internet being imperfect has no bearing on my argument.

******'s more offensive, but only because gays are still widely seen as subhuman and/or defective to a degree (you know just like blacks were when ****** was a common word) then again if you're English ****** just means a cigarette. It's the same kind of discrimination, you just seem to be arguing that abuse against gays is warrented (on the net) because they brough it on themselves, which I find particularly odd since you're gay.

you're arguing for a sort of self imposed restriction. "just don't bring it up," it's not a strictly enforced restriction, but it's a restriction none the less.

Well, where I come from, ****** is a slur (and I don't live in the States).

I'm not condoning the discrimination, I'm just saying it's more widespread and accepted. And I'm not gay, but I see where you're coming from. I'm not saying that it's okay to discriminate, but that sexuality-based discrimination is something you can get away with.

If it's a self-imposed restriction, it's your own choice to apply it to yourself. I'm not necessarily advocating it, I'm just airing it for discussion.

I could swear you said you were gay. and you made my point for me, ******'s more offensive because it's OK to discriminate against gays. Which leads me to ask, ******'s more offensive than fag so what? I don't get your point with that. (you brought it up) were you asking me about my opinion or about the world's opinion, cause to me they're equaly offensive.

You compared gays to blacks in terms of how they're discriminated, and said that my point was as ridiculous as telling "blacks to stop flaunting their blackness". Black people will get flamed for who they are less often than gay people. That's what I'm saying. Don't compare the two.

 

[Sammi Costello]

No. There is a huge difference between stating your sexual preference and hurling insults. If someone states they are gay, they aren't doing so to inflict harm on others. If someone comes back with an ugly insult about gay people, they are purposefully trying to hurt another person.

We shouldn't have to shut up just to avoid insults. That's akin to saying to women, "don't wear revealing clothing, or you are asking for it when a guy rapes you."

Sorry, but I call bullshit.

I agree with you, mostly. If a site asks you to fill out a "sexuality" box, or if someone asks you your sexuality, by all means, by open and be honest; I'm far more likely to respect you as a person for being comfortable with who you are.

But join a forum, and start posting crap like, "I'm GAY alright?! I like men, so if you can't handle it, just DEAL WITH IT!" (And yes, I actually seen that posted once).

Sure, tell people when they ask on forums, but there's no need to shove it in peoples faces all the time. If every time I see a post by a forum member, and most of their posts mention their sexuality unprovoked, I'm likely to think that they're gay, or bi, or whatever, simply because it's "trendy", and I'm going to insult them about THAT, as opposed to their sexuality.

Hello, I'm possibly Bisexual and I don't give a hot damn what people think, if sex is so bad then don't preach about how we shouldn't have it, if gays are against god's will then let IT kill them or burn them or condemn them to hell, that isn't other peoples decisions. People who constantly talk about how evil/bad/immoral gays or otherwise sexually oriented people are, chances are they are hiding something.

And this is another thing. People are not required to be completely accepting of your sexuality. By all means, I think it's great that you're exploring who you are, and it's even better that you're going to be comfortable with that, regardless of other peoples opinions (religous or otherwise).

However, the line in bold up there? You are now part of the problem; not the solution. Let me tell you a story.

I was out for a night on the town with my friends, and we ended up in a bar/nightclub (though, I'd like to point out, not a gay club). We were both standing at the bar, trying to get served, and he started chatting to me. I chatted back, just the usual stuff, what're you doing, what're you studying, are you working, where are you living, etc. Then he asked me if I wanted to go outside with him for a smoke. Sure, I said, and out we headed. Long story short, he tried to kiss me, and I freaked the hell out (because I was a little bit drunk).

He started asking me what was wrong, and I instantly calmed down, and explained that I wasn't bi or gay, and I apologised if I led him on. I was then met with a barrage of insults, him screaming at me that I was clearly in the closet and, "afraid that I would like it".

Gay guys like that are part of the problem.

 

[JemJar]

Should black people have to keep their skin colour secret online? Of course not.

Should Christians / Muslims / Buddhists etc have to keep their faiths secret? Of course not.

End of.

You make it sound as though I want to censor them. That is exactly the opposite of what I intended to say. I was talking about making a personal choice, and what you guys thought of it. I don't want to make anyone else's decisions for them.

Sorry, I didn't mean to leave the ambiguity, I was aware you weren't directly intending to censor them or anything.

My point is that I don't think we would be having this thread if you replaced "homosexuality" with "ethnic origin" and "gay" with "black". And yet we are and I'm not sure why we are.

That's because calling someone a "n****er" is going to turn people against you a whole lot faster than calling someone a "f****t". Gays and blacks are both considered minorities, but they are very, very different in terms of how they're treated.

But should they? If so, why? And if not, then should black people keep their skin colour a secret online too "unless they're willing to handle the backlash"?

The fact that discrimination against homosexuals (I try to avoid the use of "homophobia" for this, it's not generally the same thing) exists and is widely tolerated seems utterly insane when put against the massive derision of racism, sexism and religious discrimination.

Without wanting to get into the "is homosexuality a choice?" debate we'll skip ahead to the "does it make you a better / worse person?" debate and simply cut to the end, where the words "No, it doesn't, now go about your business and stop judging people for no good reason" are inscribed in 20-foot high letters.

 

[Treblaine]

I mean, jeez, should I be banned from the Escapist because I happened to reveal that I'm trans in this post, even though its related to the topic?

You seem to be missing the point. I'm not advocating a new policy that bans or censors people for revealing that they're non-heterosexual. I'm trying to discuss the personal choice to keep things on the down-low.

Well, obviously, that's a personal choice, so I fail to see where the need for a poll comes in. If people feel comfortable about coming out, they will, if not, they won't, and if they don't know about themselves yet, they're probably going to want some help from people who have gone through what they have. There's really no reason for us to impede on this decision. I'm sorry, I guess I did misinterpret the whole "ban" thing, but from what I read in your post, if anyone were to reveal something relating to his or her sexuality or gender identity anywhere outside of his or her profile, you would not approve, which makes me a sad panda.

Also, the term non-heterosexual is somewhat offensive. It makes LGBT people seem like they're mutants or something, and unless your Willy, that just isn't true.

Spoiler

Well, he's actually a cyborg, but whatever.

The poll might have been a tad unnecessary, yeah. I don't have a problem with people expressing their sexuality online, I just want them to understand that people might respond negatively. I have no desire to actively censor people. I just want them to avoid the hate speech.

I'm just using non-heterosexual as a catch-all term, because it's easier to write then listing every possible alternate sexuality. But hey, maybe that's just heteronormativity talking.

Why don't you just call a spade a spade and just call them "different" or "Atypical".
Only when you say "Should people who are different be forced to keep their difference secret because some people don't like them because of their difference?" then you'll realise how bad that sounds.

Don't give me that "for their own good" crap, there is nothing inherent to them revealing their sexuality that is the problem, the problem is other people's prejudice. Why should the burden be on the minority to hide from the haters rather than the burden on the haters to bite their tongue? It's a private function, freedom of speech cannot be used to defend verbal abuse against other members.

How can any group, network, club or organisation come on the side of the abusers on the grounds that the victims of bullying "provoked" the abuse merely by stating an innate aspect of their self?

I don't think you are a bad person, nor side with the abusers, I just think you haven't thought this through properly.

 

[Samcanuck]

(For all the people with far too much time on their hands: Yes, this thread has been searchbar-approved.)
snip

That's a difficult question. For ones own safety, unless they are willing to deal with the reprocussions, perhaps they should keep it on the down-low. That goes down to even being comfortable with their ownselves. That doesn't mean that people of differing sexual orientation shouldn't be allowed to express themselves, but they should be prepared to survive reprocussions from those that see things differently.

It's a difficult question, because how can one put an exact on the right time a person should 'come out'. Well, I guess I can see it as this. In my group of poker buddies we have this friend. Really metro. Never has had a g.f over two months, but gets along best with all the women (wives and g.f's) who see him as safe. He dies his hair, he likes more feminine things such as music and video, he's smaller but yet doesn't groom. He takes offense to shock jokes (like sexist, racist, ect...just jokes for joking sake as most of us tend to do with friends or coworkers...kinda like dead baby jokes). He wants and finally got a tiny lap dog. Afraid to play competative sports....etc. Oh, and favorite x-man is Gambit....that's the give away.

We all really like the guy. Really nice and easy going..smokes a lot of reefer. If he came out of the closet we wouldn't give two shits. Infact, we all think it would be better if he did and snuff up the overwhelming knowledge that he is, at the least, bi. But he doesn't...and it kinda leaves a spot that nobody talks about (but will joke about when we are drunk..say at bachelor parties).

He is an example of someone who should no longer keep it on the downlow. He has the support of friends and family, and his lifestyle suites him just fine. But if he didn't have support of friends and family...yeah, I can see keeping that shit on the d.l.

Because he doesn't come out, he seems afraid of certain people. Me for instance...which kinda pisses me off becuase I'm cool with the whole idea of homosexuality or bisexuality. The merit of a person is not measured by what a person likes to boink. It is almost as though he stereotypes me because on paper I would be a person against homosexuality (I play competative sports, I'm in the military, I'm also in the trades, I tell ranchy jokes). If it was just put in the open, than the chips could fall as they may and friendships would be better for it. But what can you do?

 

[One of Many]

I chose other, mostly because I don't care. I get pissed off when someone rubs my nose in their sexuality (I don't go forcing everyone to know just how I get my jollies) and I get pissed off when someone bashes another over their sexuality.

 

[bobknowsall]

Hello, I'm possibly Bisexual and I don't give a hot damn what people think, if sex is so bad then don't preach about how we shouldn't have it, if gays are against god's will then let IT kill them or burn them or condemn them to hell, that isn't other peoples decisions. People who constantly talk about how evil/bad/immoral gays or otherwise sexually oriented people are, chances are they are hiding something.

And this is another thing. People are not required to be completely accepting of your sexuality. By all means, I think it's great that you're exploring who you are, and it's even better that you're going to be comfortable with that, regardless of other peoples opinions (religous or otherwise).

However, the line in bold up there? You are now part of the problem; not the solution. Let me tell you a story.

I was out for a night on the town with my friends, and we ended up in a bar/nightclub (though, I'd like to point out, not a gay club). We were both standing at the bar, trying to get served, and he started chatting to me. I chatted back, just the usual stuff, what're you doing, what're you studying, are you working, where are you living, etc. Then he asked me if I wanted to go outside with him for a smoke. Sure, I said, and out we headed. Long story short, he tried to kiss me, and I freaked the hell out (because I was a little bit drunk).

He started asking me what was wrong, and I instantly calmed down, and explained that I wasn't bi or gay, and I apologised if I led him on. I was then met with a barrage of insults, him screaming at me that I was clearly in the closet and, "afraid that I would like it".

Gay guys like that are part of the problem.

The vocal and unreasonable are a problem, regardless of which side they're on. You've got a point there, I guess.

 

[bobknowsall]

*snip*

Look, I don't advocate discrimination against gays, okay? I actually mentioned that in my OP. I'm just talking about ways to avoid said discrimination when you're anonymous.

 

[Et3rnalLegend64]

I think it's fine if they say it, kinda. I don't see any point in just throwing it out randomly during a discussion, but it's okay when it's relevant to the discussion. People who throw insults at them are immature and way too opinionated, so there's no reason to tell a person when he/she never asked.

 

[Lucifron]

I don't believe homosexuals should be given any special treatment on the internet, everyone is flamed equally for any flammable trait here. If you reveal any quirky personal trait outside of the norm you have to accept the subsequent shitstorm or leave, it's really that simple.

 

[chronobreak]

I can't stand people that think their sexuality defines them as a person, whether they be gay, straight, or furry. If the conversation has nothing to do with your sexuality, don't bring it up out of context.

 

[bobknowsall]

I mean, jeez, should I be banned from the Escapist because I happened to reveal that I'm trans in this post, even though its related to the topic?

You seem to be missing the point. I'm not advocating a new policy that bans or censors people for revealing that they're non-heterosexual. I'm trying to discuss the personal choice to keep things on the down-low.

Well, obviously, that's a personal choice, so I fail to see where the need for a poll comes in. If people feel comfortable about coming out, they will, if not, they won't, and if they don't know about themselves yet, they're probably going to want some help from people who have gone through what they have. There's really no reason for us to impede on this decision. I'm sorry, I guess I did misinterpret the whole "ban" thing, but from what I read in your post, if anyone were to reveal something relating to his or her sexuality or gender identity anywhere outside of his or her profile, you would not approve, which makes me a sad panda.

Also, the term non-heterosexual is somewhat offensive. It makes LGBT people seem like they're mutants or something, and unless your Willy, that just isn't true.

Spoiler

Well, he's actually a cyborg, but whatever.

The poll might have been a tad unnecessary, yeah. I don't have a problem with people expressing their sexuality online, I just want them to understand that people might respond negatively. I have no desire to actively censor people. I just want them to avoid the hate speech.

I'm just using non-heterosexual as a catch-all term, because it's easier to write then listing every possible alternate sexuality. But hey, maybe that's just heteronormativity talking.

Why don't you just call a spade a spade and just call them "different" or "Atypical".
Only when you say "Should people who are different be forced to keep their difference secret because some people don't like them because of their difference?" then you'll realise how bad that sounds.

Don't give me that "for their own good" crap, there is nothing inherent to them revealing their sexuality that is the problem, the problem is other people's prejudice. Why should the burden be on the minority to hide from the haters rather than the burden on the haters to bite their tongue? It's a private function, freedom of speech cannot be used to defend verbal abuse against other members.

How can any group, network, club or organisation come on the side of the abusers on the grounds that the victims of bullying "provoked" the abuse merely by stating an innate aspect of their self?

I don't think you are a bad person, nor side with the abusers, I just think you haven't thought this through properly.

I think I've thought it through quite sufficiently, thank you very much.

You clearly think I have a problem with the LGBT community, and I'd just like to present my ranting little rebuttal:

I am an openly bisexual guy. At least half of my friends are gay, lesbian, or bisexual. My reasons for posting this thread were due to past experience. I find it easier to go about my business online when people are unaware of my sexuality. I'm not just waffling for the sake of it, and I'm not advocating censorship. (Dear god, I have had to repeat that far too many times today)

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

As I've said before, there's a gulf between your sexuality and your characters sexuality. Neither need to be broadcast, and your characters only really needs to be known if it's relevant.

 

[bobknowsall]

Edit: oh look the pole question changed, well I guess we're not in disagreement anymore.

Wait, what?

 

[Cosmic Naginata]

Short answer no, no one should have to keep silent out of fear.
A question I would put in the "Other" category - Should we hetrosexuals be more open about our tolerance?

 

[JemJar]

*snip*

Look, I don't advocate discrimination against gays, okay? I actually mentioned that in my OP. I'm just talking about ways to avoid said discrimination when you're anonymous.

I'd like to point out I've never accused you of it. Though you've still not answered my question and I'm genuinely interested to know so I'll ask it more directly:

Would you have posted this thread if you'd seen discussions of skin colour and seen black people getting flamed for being black people?

And if the answer is in the negative, why the difference?

 

[bobknowsall]

Short answer no, no one should have to keep silent out of fear.
A question I would put in the "Other" category - Should we hetrosexuals be more open about our tolerance?

How do you suggest we eliminate that fear, then? Make everyone happy and accepting? That's just not possible.

Ah, "tolerance". Lovely little word, that. A hippo "tolerates" the ticks on its back. I think non-heterosexuals would rather be "accepted".

In response to your question: No. It would be incredibly condescending.

 

[sylekage]

I don't mind if people are gay, and I think they deserve to reveal it, but when they start to flaunt it and try to make it sound like they're better than everyone else, then they're going to receive a major shit storm. That also applies to everyone who decides to shove their heads up their ass and walk around all high and mighty. Also, no offense, but I also think that they shouldn't post online what their sexual preference is, because the internet is filled with children, immature adults, and people with no remorse, so if you want to come out of the closet, but still have your pride, then keep it with the outside world, not here.